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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
Which character do you wish pJ INcluded in the trilogy./??
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The Shire

Mar 18 2011, 10:14pm

Post #26 of 40 (334 views)
Radagast [In reply to] Can't Post

At least you will now have him in The Hobbit movies, well, at least one of them. Wink


Mar 19 2011, 9:27pm

Post #27 of 40 (334 views)
Sador: [In reply to] Can't Post

Bill Ferny, you said: but isn't it possible that one of those dodgy men in The Prancing Pony who stared at Frodo was him in the movie?

The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Mar 19 2011, 10:51pm

Post #28 of 40 (332 views)
every characters there's in the books [In reply to] Can't Post

but above all Tom Bombadil and the Old forest, Radagast speaking to animals, Glorfindel and his horse, Elrohir and Halladan with the rest of Wanderings, Ghan Buri Ghan and the Druedains, prince Imrahil of Dol Amroth and last but not the least Cirdan the Carpenter
have I ask too much?!?! Laugh



Mar 20 2011, 12:51am

Post #29 of 40 (350 views)
Missing Characters [In reply to] Can't Post

Cool thread! I'm enjoying reading all the responses. (We should put these characters on milk cartons). If I'm allowed to digress a bit, it was nice to finally see Faramir - who was left out of all the animated movies! (Unless you count the guy who looks lovingly at Eowyn at the end of the Rankin/Bass Return of the King.)



Mar 20 2011, 3:26am

Post #30 of 40 (310 views)
according to Decipher cards... one was [In reply to] Can't Post


but... the Decipher cards are sometimes in conflict with the movie so that should only be a point of interest and not proof that the movie intended for this character to be Bill Ferny.

LOTR soundtrack website
magpie avatar gallery ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Mar 20 2011, 6:54am

Post #31 of 40 (374 views)
But that's not whatI missed. [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't mind at all the lack of someone with the name "Bill Ferny", and if one of the Breelanders in the pub was called by that name it wouldn't satisfy me. Like the way I can live with Gamling, which fulfills a role more logically belonging to Elfhelm, or even calling that Elf Figwit when the names Lindir or Erestor were available.

What I was missing is the 'stupid and wicked' man-character, one with too much time on his hands who delights in mischief, and ends up becoming a small thug under the domain of Saruman. This could be a clear comment on the Saruman-effects, and would give an evil man which is easily recognisable, other than the obviously-monstrous Wormtonge or the primitive, deluded Dunlending.

Likewise, I miss Beregond sorely; and not because Pippin needs a friendly soldier to connect him to Minas Tirith (the filmmakers managed without that IMO), but because of the two other functions he fills - showing the common Gondorians' love for Faramir (which he does with Ioreth and Beregil; in the movie we only have the flower-throwing girls as he rides out on his suicidal mission) and buying the precious time needed for Pippin to go down, find Gandalf and get him back to Rath Dinen. In the film, there is nothing to explain Denethor's delay, and they both should have been way beyond saving - unless you want to speculate about the psychology of suicidical people, who really want to be saved. But in that case - aren't you making Gandalf (or Shadowfax) a murderer?

"Let me think!" - Aragorn.

The weekly discussion of The Lord of the Rings is back! Please join us in the Reading Room for Book III.

"A bit of pipeweed and some food is sufficient to make them think better of Saruman? Are hobbits more forgiving than other races by nature?"
- Isis.


Mar 21 2011, 1:50am

Post #32 of 40 (324 views)
Glorfindel the Golden [In reply to] Can't Post

Glorfindel is one of my favorite characters, so I wish he had been in the movies. I also missed having Elladan and Elrohir. I am a huge Elrond fan, and I think that having his sons would have made him seem a little more emotionally balanced, vis-a-vis the whole Arwen thing. Plus, I missed the Grey Company.

(This post was edited by PattyJB on Mar 21 2011, 1:53am)


Mar 21 2011, 11:52pm

Post #33 of 40 (249 views)
We have a winner [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree that this omission from LOTR (coupled with his outward uncertainty and lack of Anduril for most of the trilogy) was a glaring omission that made Aragorn's character somewhat "lessened" IMHO.

Hamfast Gamgee
Grey Havens

Mar 22 2011, 12:41am

Post #34 of 40 (290 views)
I have actually [In reply to] Can't Post

Written quite a bit of fanfic about the characters in the Prancing Pony and Bill Ferny often features. He is always the stupid bad guy and the one to kick. A little bit of a characture I suppose. But Tolkien couldn't think of anything good to say about him so why should I!


Mar 22 2011, 9:26pm

Post #35 of 40 (230 views)
Faramir [In reply to] Can't Post

It would've been cool to see the character in the movie rather than some guy who happened to have his name.

The Party Tree

Mar 23 2011, 1:29am

Post #36 of 40 (231 views)
Ooh, burn. [In reply to] Can't Post

But I completely agree. Cool


Mar 24 2011, 2:40am

Post #37 of 40 (203 views)
Denathor with his Palantir... [In reply to] Can't Post

It's NOT in the Movies, but there is a Great Illustration of Him stareng into this Ball getting Corrupted, that I so wish was in the Films. I think the Brothers Hildabran produced this, or maybe it was Ted Naismith....My old Calandar bought in the 1970's in Lost...Does anyone know this Artwork? I'd love to see it agian.

Arwen Skywalker

Mar 24 2011, 3:00am

Post #38 of 40 (206 views)
I strongly disagree [In reply to] Can't Post

If movie-firsters like me and movie-onlyers like weaver's husband still find Faramir from the films to be a noble person, then it's pretty good evidence that his character wasn't destroyed. This essay goes into more detail on why than I can right now. Then again, this thread is about to go into the no-man's land known as Page 2 so I'm not sure if too many people would care about this topic now.

But anyway, I join the club with Bombadil and also wish that Denethor with the palantir should have been there. A short scene (less than a minute) would have been sufficient for showing why he was so wacko so I'll never understand why PJ (or any of the editors) couldn't have added this.

(This post was edited by Arwen Skywalker on Mar 24 2011, 3:01am)


Mar 24 2011, 10:43am

Post #39 of 40 (197 views)
Seems to me... [In reply to] Can't Post

Faramir is supposed to represent the Numenorean at its best, as Tolkien explicitly said, faithful and wise, seeing beyond his own needs to the greater cause, trusting in the wisdom of Gandalf, the counterpoint to his brother. But that doesn't suit the way movies are made these days, where characters always have to have an "arc" or discovery and "beats" where moods and decisions change (basically to give actors something to do), as defined by modern screenwriter books and classes. So Faramir has to be like all the other men in the movie, petty and self-serving (except Aragorn, underscoring another screenwriting trope: all other characters exist to make the hero look good). All this because the screenwriters insist that the Ring would be "dead" if Faramir rejected it has he had in the book (glossing over the fact that it didn't kill the Ring in book (but what would the writer of the book know? He didn't take any screenwriting courses!) and that Aragorn had earlier rejected the Ring in the movie without killing it). But the killer in the whole thing is that after Frodo tries to give the Ring to the Nazgul (a big problem in the movie), Faramir decides to let him take the Ring into Mordor. So now he's just plain stupid on top of everything else.

Arwen Skywalker

Mar 25 2011, 1:06am

Post #40 of 40 (240 views)
The way I interpreted the book... [In reply to] Can't Post

Faramir understood how dangerous the Ring was when he saw how his brother was so eager to take the mission to Rivendell. The movies have a less haughty Boromir, so the circumstances on why he went to Rivendell were very different. So movie-Faramir is missing an important clue to the whole puzzle. I really don't see how Numenorean wisdom could have helped him without that information and the essay I posted earlier just reinforces this. What I found unrealistic about book-Faramir was that he would share so much personal information to a complete stranger like Frodo but that's a completely different issue.

So Faramir has to be like all the other men in the movie, petty and self-serving

OK, getting the Ring to impress Daddy was self-serving but that's somewhat understandable given how much of jerk Denethor is. I didn't get the impression that one act (which he eventually corrected before things got bad) made him a selfish person. The map scene with Madril gave me enough information to know that Faramir cared about something beyond his own needs. I really don't know where you got the idea that he was petty though.

Aragorn had earlier rejected the Ring in the movie without killing it)

I did wonder if this was an inconsistency at first but now, it isn't for me because he has a personal connection to the issue. Aragorn has been worried for some time about making Isildur's mistakes so he would be extra-cautious around the Ring. Faramir's personal connection was witnessing his brother's haughty behavior but this was eliminated from the movies.

the screenwriters insist that the Ring would be "dead" if Faramir rejected it has he had in the book

Actually, what killed the Ring for me in the book was that it took so damn long for Frodo to leave the Shire. Tom Bombadil was just icing on the cake (in a bad way). To get back on topic, a "dead" Ring was not the only issue Boyens brought up. She said something about the sequence in the book being anti-climatic: "death on film" as I remember. A more faith adaptation of this would be much more acceptable to "modern" audiences and easier to work with for screenwriters if it was in a miniseries. Since people expect miniseries to be long, a slow sequence would be easier to swallow for people who never read the books.

But the killer in the whole thing is that after Frodo tries to give the Ring to the Nazgul (a big problem in the movie), Faramir decides to let him take the Ring into Mordor. So now he's just plain stupid on top of everything else.

See my response to sithempire. Something else I'll mention is that Faramir letting Frodo go on seems like a "heart" decision to trust in the divine, fate, whatever it is you want to call it. Curious (or was it CuriousG?) often mentions in the Reading Room how the Council trusting Frodo with the Ring was also a "heart" decision and the Boromir desired it because he didn't have that kind of faith in Eru/the Valar. I don't agree with his interpretation but at the same time, I wonder if this was the film's way of touching on a theme from the book that I could have missed.

(This post was edited by Arwen Skywalker on Mar 25 2011, 1:12am)

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