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Aragorn_Elessar
The Shire
Jul 17 2007, 12:06am
Post #1 of 8
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Screencap of the Day: "I don't understand"
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Here's to today's screen cap, taken as Gandalf, having entrusted the Ring to Frodo, is leaving Bag End.
1. Why do you think is Gandalf's face shown obscured behind a chandelier?
2. When Frodo says that he does not understand, Gandalf's reply is: "Neither do I". How much does Gandalf know or suspect at this point?
3. Consider this passage from the book (emphasis mine):
‘I don’t understand,’ said Frodo.
‘Neither do I,’ answered the wizard. ‘I have merely begun to wonder about the ring, especially since last night. No need to worry. But if you take my advice you will use it very seldom, or not at all. At least I beg you not to use it in any way that will cause talk or rouse suspicion. I say again: keep it safe, and keep it secret!’
This scene in the film is far more urgent, and Gandalf's words and actions seem very likely to cause Frodo to worry. Why do you think this change was made?
4. Any further comments on this image?
(P.S. As a small aside, based on the above passage from the book, do you think there is any significance in the writers reversing the line "keep it safe, and keep it secret" for the film, so that secrecy is put before safety?)
“The truth is, you can't be a guardian of this. It's an organic thing. The film is what it is. The books are untouchable. They exist, they will always exist, and this is one group of fans' version. We all love these books. We're fans of these books and this world, and this is our interpretation, our vision, our attempt to bring it to life.”
Philippa Boyens
“The interesting phenomenon with our script-writing is that with every draft that we wrote, it became closer and closer to what was in the book. It became nearer to Tolkien.”
Peter Jackson
EE Commentary Transcripts (updated 28/6/06)
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FarFromHome
Valinor
Jul 17 2007, 9:20am
Post #2 of 8
(987 views)
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1. Why do you think is Gandalf's face shown obscured behind a chandelier?
I think it's a neat way of distancing Gandalf from Frodo. Frodo doesn't want him to rush away, but Gandalf is going anyway, back to the world of the "big folk". When Gandalf first arrived in the Shire it took him a while to adjust to the smallness of things, and he bumped into this very chandelier on his way into Bag End. But he soon got used to the scale of the Shire and seemed quite comfortable in Bilbo's kitchen and at the Party. Now he's going away, and we are reminded of how he doesn't really "fit" here very well.
2. When Frodo says that he does not understand, Gandalf's reply is: "Neither do I". How much does Gandalf know or suspect at this point?
Judging by Gandalf's face while he was waiting for Frodo to come back after Bilbo left, I think he has been putting two and two together and not liking the answer at all. He's still hoping he's made a mistake somewhere, but I suspect he knows in his heart that he hasn't.
3. Consider this passage from the book (emphasis mine):
‘I don’t understand,’ said Frodo.
‘Neither do I,’ answered the wizard. ‘I have merely begun to wonder about the ring, especially since last night. No need to worry. But if you take my advice you will use it very seldom, or not at all. At least I beg you not to use it in any way that will cause talk or rouse suspicion. I say again: keep it safe, and keep it secret!’
This scene in the film is far more urgent, and Gandalf's words and actions seem very likely to cause Frodo to worry. Why do you think this change was made?
Well, in my experience, when anyone tells you not to worry, that's exactly when you should start to worry! But that aside, the film is moving things along more dramatically (it is drama after all!). There's no time for the leisurely 17-year break while Gandalf thinks about things some more. In the movie Gandalf is clearly already very worried himself, and in this scene he lets Frodo see a little of that worry too.
4. Any further comments on this image?
Well, I just watched this scene and I was struck by what happens right before this image. Before Gandalf turns around to look at Frodo through the chandelier, we see his private expression. It looks to me as if Gandalf gets a grip on himself and deliberately decides that he has to tell Frodo something of the truth. When he says "Neither do I", I think he's trying to let Frodo see a little of his doubt. Although he often seems to hide the worst of his worry from Frodo, I don't think he ever tells him anything untrue, and to reassure Frodo completely at this point would have been dishonest, perhaps. I wrote a bit more about this in a post further down the board.
(P.S. As a small aside, based on the above passage from the book, do you think there is any significance in the writers reversing the line "keep it safe, and keep it secret" for the film, so that secrecy is put before safety?)
It's in the book twice. Here's the first one:
"The ring!" exclaimed Frodo. "Has he left me that? I wonder why. Still, it may be useful."
"It may, and it may not," said Gandalf. "I should not make use of it, if I were you. But keep it secret, and keep it safe! Now I am going to bed."
He repeats it the next morning - in reversed order - in the passage you quoted (which is why he says "I say again"). So I guess the filmmakers liked the order of the first one the best. I like your idea about putting secrecy first, although I imagine McKellen could have delivered the line the other way around and still put the emphasis on secrecy if that's what was wanted.
...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew,
and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore
glimmered and was lost.
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Aragorn_Elessar
The Shire
Jul 17 2007, 10:12am
Post #3 of 8
(971 views)
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Thanks for pointing out that the "keep it secret..." line appears twice - that'll teach me to go for so long without reading the book! ;)
“The truth is, you can't be a guardian of this. It's an organic thing. The film is what it is. The books are untouchable. They exist, they will always exist, and this is one group of fans' version. We all love these books. We're fans of these books and this world, and this is our interpretation, our vision, our attempt to bring it to life.”
Philippa Boyens
“The interesting phenomenon with our script-writing is that with every draft that we wrote, it became closer and closer to what was in the book. It became nearer to Tolkien.”
Peter Jackson
EE Commentary Transcripts (updated 28/6/06)
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FarFromHome
Valinor
Jul 17 2007, 11:05am
Post #4 of 8
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with the book at one point (between the TTT and ROTK movie releases). I read it over and over, and ended up feeling like I knew the whole thing off by heart! It's fading a bit now (I've not read the book right through since ROTK came out), but I still know quite a few geeky book-details like this.
...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew,
and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore
glimmered and was lost.
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Lily Fairbairn
Half-elven
Jul 17 2007, 3:35pm
Post #5 of 8
(967 views)
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behind the chandelier reminds of the Rohirrim and Gondorians in their helmets later on -- especially the Rohirrim and Eowyn in their Anglo-Saxon inspired helmets. Maybe it's a way of foreshadowing all the battles to come!
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weaver
Half-elven
Jul 17 2007, 3:57pm
Post #6 of 8
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I always thought the framing of Gandalf behind the chandalier here was to evoke the Ring as a player in the game at this point.
It's something that's "between" Frodo and Gandalf, and which Gandalf has to "go around" (by ducking under that chandelier) in order to give Frodo some final words of advice.
Anything in the commentaries on why they filmed this scene through the chandelier like this?
It's deliberate, in any case!
Weaver
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Loresilme
Valinor
Jul 20 2007, 3:30pm
Post #7 of 8
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Especially if you step back from the image
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and the details blur a bit, it does look very much like the Rohirrim helmet, with the nose guard and all.
And then in the next moment, in contrast, he stoop downs and away from it to speak at Frodo's eye level.
Tis very intriguing ... !
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Darkstone
Immortal
Jul 20 2007, 4:09pm
Post #8 of 8
(935 views)
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1. Why do you think is Gandalf's face shown obscured behind a chandelier?
Lots of reasons. First there’s the eye motif, emphasizing Gandalf’s warm caring eye compared to Sauron’s firey evil one. Then there’s the mask motif, Gandalf is trying to mask his concern from Frodo. Then like Lily Fairbairn says there’s the helmet motif, Gandalf is girding for the struggle ahead. Finally like weaver says there’s the ring motif, showing the ring beginning to separate Frodo from his friends. Like Boyens has said, a scene in the movie often has to do several things at once.
2. When Frodo says that he does not understand, Gandalf's reply is: "Neither do I". How much does Gandalf know or suspect at this point?
Depends. If you go with the seventeen year option from the book, he probably doesn’t suspect much and it’s going to take him a while to track down all the clues and end up in Gondor. On the other hand if you believe as the film version implies that Gandalf bee-lined for the archives of Minas Tirith then he probably suspects the worst.
3. Consider this passage from the book (emphasis mine):
‘I don’t understand,’ said Frodo.
‘Neither do I,’ answered the wizard. ‘I have merely begun to wonder about the ring, especially since last night. No need to worry. But if you take my advice you will use it very seldom, or not at all. At least I beg you not to use it in any way that will cause talk or rouse suspicion. I say again: keep it safe, and keep it secret!’
This scene in the film is far more urgent, and Gandalf's words and actions seem very likely to cause Frodo to worry. Why do you think this change was made?
They’re meant to convey urgency to the audience and make *them* worry. The leisurely introduction to frolicking happy hobbits is over. It’s time to switch gears.
4. Any further comments on this image?
(P.S. As a small aside, based on the above passage from the book, do you think there is any significance in the writers reversing the line "keep it safe, and keep it secret" for the film, so that secrecy is put before safety?)
Some lines just work better when spoken than when read on the page. True, the former was in the book too Like FarFromHome says, but it just seems to have a better cadence when spoken. Then again, it just might be that anything said by McKellen seems right and definitive.
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The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
(This post was edited by Darkstone on Jul 20 2007, 4:09pm)
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