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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: The Arena:
Sauron vs. Voldemort...

Finrod Felagund 5
The Shire

Jul 16 2007, 11:38pm

Post #1 of 19 (4023 views)
Sauron vs. Voldemort... Can't Post

  Sauron and Voldemort have enrolled in a sort of Dark Lord re-education program. As punishment for their many wrongs, they have been sentenced to this program (you can determine their sincerity at "rehabilitation") and the first step is having them live in an apartment together. This is not entirely an odd-couple type set-up, as they do have many things in common, however it is up to you to decide how the arrangement proceeds, and what further steps in the program might be. Who would end up getting on his roommate's nerves first? What would be activities they might be subjected to in order to inspire cooperation (and how would such activities fail miserably?). Also, what would be the end result of Sauron and Voldemort being in such a program, and what would be the results of their having been partnered up as "rehabilitation buddies?"

Bonus: Who might be other members of this camp (ex: Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars would make a fine addition) and who would they be partnered up with? You can also (if you decide to add other Dark Lords in the process of "reforming") decide what might happen in a larger group, if Sauron and Voldemort were brought into activities with the other members of the program

Lastly: Try and be creative, and have fun.

Superuser / Moderator

Jul 16 2007, 11:43pm

Post #2 of 19 (903 views)
Regarding insults, it's a draw, [In reply to] Can't Post

with Voldemort's repeated comments about Sauron being 'one-eyed' met with Sauron's dig of 'slitty nose'. But it's when Sauron starts trying to breed rats with gerbils to create 'rerbil-hai' that Voldemort really loses his rag - particularly when Sauron refuses to clean up after the critters.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.

Ataahua's stories

Tol Eressea

Jul 17 2007, 3:52pm

Post #3 of 19 (835 views)
Scourgify!// [In reply to] Can't Post


"There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark."


Jul 17 2007, 4:46pm

Post #4 of 19 (955 views)
Hmmm.... [In reply to] Can't Post

...Sauron and Voldemort find themselves in the same apartment with Emperor Palpatine as well as Lex Luthor and his sidekick Otis. They decide that as long as they're together they'll plan a big heist. It all goes wrong in the end, they all die, and it turns out that Otis is really Kyser Soze.

The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”

Sr. Staff

Jul 19 2007, 11:51am

Post #5 of 19 (860 views)
Well it all gets rather complicated... [In reply to] Can't Post

...when it turns out that the one ring was one of Voldie's horcurxes, and he's none too pleased that Sauron managed to lose it. This causes endless arguements but in the end they decide they will have to work together to try to prevent the destruction of the ring, as it's kind of important to them both. (There are many accusations such as, 'Look, horcruxes were my idea in the first place - why the %*&$ did you go and tie YOUR life force to MY horcrux, you big, armour clad, one-eyed idiot??')

Voldie is the ultimate victor here but not through his own skill; when Frodo succeeds in destroying the ring, Sauron of course dies whereas Voldie is only one horcrux down. And Harry sends Frodo a large bouquet to thank him for his help with horcrux #4.

Btw I think the 'Voldie and Sauron as roommates' could have great sitcom potential! Wink

'There are older and fouler things than orcs in the deep places of my fridge...'

SandWitch King

Jul 22 2007, 11:51pm

Post #6 of 19 (824 views)
Uh... [In reply to] Can't Post

Voldy is no match for Sauron. He might, maybe, could possibly be a struggle for the Witch King (this has nothing to do with my annoying nick name on this forum) on his best day.

No wonder all writers want to direct: one still has to put up with a load of nonsense, but even if wearing two hats (writer and director), there is one under which one is not called a thief and then raped - David Mamet

Finrod Felagund 5
The Shire

Jul 23 2007, 2:16am

Post #7 of 19 (915 views)
If Sauron and Voldemort actually fought [In reply to] Can't Post

   I made the battle in this thread about Voldemort and Sauron as roommates because there is really no contest or debate about an actual battle between the two characters. Voldemort, for all his power and might is still just human Tom Riddle. Sauron is one of the Ainur who existed before the creation of the world itself, and on earth an immortal Maiar, perhaps the most powerful of them (although many argue for Eonwe being the mightiest). Voldemort wouldn't have a chance, and confronted with the Ruling Ring he would not make it a Horcrux, but would in fact most likely be enslaved to it, unable to cast it away. PERHAPS with the Ring adding to Voldemort's power he would be able to defeat Sauron and take his place, but even then Sauron would not die or truly be defeated as the Ring is part of him, and he would stay bound to it.

After Sauron's defeat he becomes a shadow unable to grow or take shape, but he STILL exists and is not "dead." Also, I do not know what role it is prophesized (if any) for Sauron to play in the Dagor Dagorath (the final battle at the end of Arda, when Morgoth will break through the Void and challenge the Valar and the world once more) but he may then again arise and aid his Master in what would end up being the final overthrow of evil and the total defeat of Melkor/Morgoth.

Tom Riddle's main problem, his fear and obsessive desire to escape death, makes him more akin to Ar-Pharazon and the evil Numenoreans than to Sauron himself, and we all know what happened when Ar-Pharazon went to war against Sauron. Sure, Sauron made it seem that he was willingly defeated, but in the end he took such control of Ar-Pharazon and through him, all of Numenor, that he brought about its destruction, resulting in a change to the very nature of the planet.

Even through the Arena in its existence prior to the restructured board format, I tried to stay away from STRAIGHT Potter vs. LOTR battles because of two reasons. One, this is a Lord of the Rings forum, and I figured most people, being partial to LOTR (as I am myself) would favor the characters in any battle. The second reason is that it is impossible to match Dumbledore vs. Gandalf or Voldemort vs. Sauron (seemingly natural matches) because there is a lot more to Tolkien's world than meets the eye. A wizard in Rowling's world is a HUMAN BEING capable of doing great magic. While they have longer life-spans than us normal human beings do, they die just like us.

In Tolkien's world, the wizards are in actuality the Istari, and only five of them exist (three whom we meet in LOTR). All of them are of the Maiar (the same beings as Sauron, though with less power) and so immortal. While they LOOK like men, and don't exert great "Magic" at all times, that is due to their mission given to them by the Valar, which is to aid the Free Peoples of Middle-Earth (most specifically, Men) in their war against Sauron during the Third Age. During the Second Age, the combined power of the Elves and the returning Men of Numenor was enough to defeat Sauron (although not completely, as his Ring remained), but by the Third Age the fading of the Elves and the waning might of what once was Numenor was not enough. The Valar sent the Istari because (thanks in PART to Sauron's actions that led to the reshaping of the world, in large part for Melkor pouring his stain into EVERYTHING in creation, and also to the fact that the Valar themselves failed when it came to dealing with Sauron, and to dealing in large part with Middle-Earth itself by bringing the Elves to Aman, and by failing to realize Melkor's evil early enough) they needed to send help to Men, but could not come themselves.

The best battles between Tolkien's characters and Rowling's would have to be without any Ainur. Powerful Elves like Galadriel, Elrond, and Glorfindel have magic of their own (there are, of course, many more powerful Elves who existed in the First Age and before, and were seen in the Silmarillion, but I am not going to name them right now) and so could be set against some of Rowling's powerful Wizards. There could also be matchups of powerful Men (Arargorn, Faramir, Eomer....and of course, the might Elf-Friends of the First Age, who again I'll leave off the list, trying to stick to LOTR alone) vs. Rowling's Wizards. However, to make battles of the immortal Tolkien characters vs. mortal human beings, even with great powers, usually won't come out to too much of a "Battle."

I know many people who are partial to the Potter books over LOTR (though not too many on this particular forum), and they might find a way to justify Voldemort beating Sauron, or Dumbledore beating Gandalf. They might even go as far as Dumbledore beating Manwe or Voldemort over Melkor (why stop at them beating LESS powerful immortal beings when those Potter fans could go for the whole cake?). I know my preference of Tolkien over Rowling might affect my judgement, but I cannot see how Dumbledore is equal to Gandalf on anything other than function on a literary level. And if Potter fans would in actuality tell me that Voldemort could not only best Sauron with ease, but Melkor (at full capacity) as well, then I'd wonder if they even knew who Melkor was, and had actually read the Silmarillion.

However, I DO know of literary examples that could put up a fight and perhaps BEST Tolkien's most powerful (even Melkor), such as Milton's powerful Satan (I am not speaking of the Bible, which I keep out of literary wars, but of John Milton's Paradise Lost). There also exist in other literature characters of god-like power and ability, and so there ARE matches for Tolkien's work, however I do not find them amongst Rowling's greatest and most powerful creations.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Harry Potter universe and am astounded by the breadth of the world Ms. Rowling has created, yet her world is presented on a far different plateau than Tolkien's is. Her world is set almost as a parallel universe to our own, and is supposed to exist in cohesion with our current world today, just behind our comprehension. Tolkien's world exists in a past remote and far away, and yet one that COULD be accepted by latter day humans (in a way that the Greek mythology is accepted, for instance) as having happened prior to recorded human history. Yes, both are fiction, but they just exist on different plains. Harry Potter lives in the UK, which really exists in today's world. Frodo lives in the Shire in Middle-Earth, which we know (in reality) has never existed, but (like so many of the places depicted in Greek, Egyptian, and Norse mythology), if you play Tolkien's "game," COULD have existed long enough ago. All fiction, fantasy perhaps a bit moreso, involves suspending disbelief to a point, although it takes less work to imagine Harry Potter zooming around London (which we know), than Frodo and the Fellowship spending time in Moria or Lothlorien, or Luke Skywalker watching the two suns over Tatooine, or Lucy Pevensie meeting a fawn in a snow-covered forest.

Sorry for continuing to rant and ramble on, when my main point was made more than once, and long ago. To finish by restating it, however, it was just that Voldemort could (at least in my humble opinion, anyway) by no means defeat Sauron, and could never hope to use the One Ring as a Horcrux, as that One Ring already houses a spirit far more potent than Voldemort's, even were Voldemort to attempt to insert his soul in its entirety, unmaimed. There are a great many similarities between the work of Tolkien and Rowling, however it almost seemed that you wrote of the One Ring being some kind of take off of the idea of a Horcrux when even the publishing of LOTR (forget when it formed in Tolkien's own mind) predates even the BIRTH of Ms. Rowling. If anything, the idea of a Horcrux perhaps owes a great deal TO the One Ring of Tolkien. Afterall, this much is certain: Sauron was defeated at the end of the Second Age, his spirit fled and his body was gone. However, due to so much of his power and esscence being placed in the Ring, he remained and eventually came back (even getting another body). When Voldemort was defeated by his own Killing Curse that he sent to kill the infant Harry Potter, his soul fled and his body was destroyed. However he remained due to so many parts of his soul being placed in several different Horcruxes, and he remained "alive" in Albania, and eventually came back with a new body. Voldemort, a Dark Lord (Sauron was the first Dark Lord in the sense of literary history, even though in his OWN fictional world, Sauron was actually the second) was created (like so many other Dark Lords, including both Darth Vader and his master, Emperor Palpatine) with a great debt of thanks due to Sauron and Tolkien. And in battle with the Original Dark Lord, I have sincere doubts that almost any of them could defeat him.

Now, about Palpatine vs Voldemort....

Sr. Staff

Jul 23 2007, 10:58am

Post #8 of 19 (804 views)
Or, on the other hand, I MIGHT just have been having a laugh and assuming we weren't dealing with "real" outcomes here... // [In reply to] Can't Post


'There are older and fouler things than orcs in the deep places of my fridge...'

Finrod Felagund 5
The Shire

Jul 23 2007, 11:28am

Post #9 of 19 (868 views)
One last thing... [In reply to] Can't Post

   I am sorry if I came off in any way as rude or offensive. Those who know me from when I posted on the former Arena could testify to the fact that I have never sought to upset others in any way. I also have been known, from time to time, for extremely long posts, like the one which you are responding to. I mainly made my post (a response to yours) due to the fact that I felt I should answer why this is not a traditional battle. I feel that it is very difficult (and this is no fault of your own, or of anyone for that matter) to post straight Potter vs. LOTR battles for the reasons I mentioned; especially because this entire forum is dedicated to the Lord of the Rings, and while fantasy fans in great numbers have embraced both works, usually to be on this forum is to indicate a preference in favor of Tolkien (at least it sort of does so in my opinion, and I am an example of that). I figure if I posted a straight, Voldemort vs. Sauron battle, Voldemort would get very little support (and none from myself, which is why I would not post such a battle to begin with, as I usually start battles that intrigue me). This battle was just for a bit of comedy, and if it has failed, I apologize not only to you but to others here in the Arena.

The humor in your post was indeed noted, and what I wrote was as much in answer to the direct response to your post as it was a reply to you directly. In closing I just would like to say in the future, I do not use any posts to cast judgment in anyway, and if it seemed that I was not understanding your intended meaning, then I again apologize for that. Misunderstandings are sometimes a side-effect of communication over the Internet, as in most cases a person is communicating with people they have never met, and know little to nothing about. Even amongst my family and closest friends my jokes and moments of sarcasm can be misinterpreted, yet the Internet is a much harder place to convey true meaning behind every word. Sorry again if I came off as rude or insulting in any way, it was never my intention and I hope no issue came from it in the slightest, and I thank you for taking the time to both craft a response to the original battle, and to stand up for your joke with another post.

Sr. Staff

Jul 23 2007, 11:47am

Post #10 of 19 (786 views)
No worries at all... [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't take offense at posts and wasn't at all offended by yours. I always assume no offense is meant! I was just being rather flippant! Laugh I agree that it's hard to understand tone in a post, so I hoped the smiley face would show that I was just having a laugh and being light hearted. So please don't worry. Anyway, your long post was actually an interesting read, so thanks for that! Smile

'There are older and fouler things than orcs in the deep places of my fridge...'


Aug 5 2007, 10:11pm

Post #11 of 19 (796 views)
I think it would be a tie . [In reply to] Can't Post

Both being famos wizards of ther time.

Never doubt that a small group of peple can change the world indeed,that is the onely thing that ever has......Margaret mead

the artist formerly known as sparki

Aug 9 2007, 6:44pm

Post #12 of 19 (738 views)
we know you too well, Finrod [In reply to] Can't Post

to be offended by anything you say. You've never tried to be rude or offensive and no-one would ever take you for such.

I love both worlds equally, but on a practical level, humans can't beat Maiar. Common sense.

Yes, I used to be sparki.

the artist formerly known as sparki

Aug 9 2007, 6:59pm

Post #13 of 19 (728 views)
genius idea! [In reply to] Can't Post

Darth Vader and Akasha, Queen of the Vampires in the Anne Rice novels, join them in the programme. None of the participants really dig the whole "being nice" thing, and consequently spend the month practising more and more vicious insults to throw at each other.

Example: "Thank God for the mask, Vader, it must be an improvement on what's underneath..."

"At least I have two eyes under it, Sauron, and I don't need a monocle!"

Things come to a head when Voldemort transfigures Sauron's eyedrops into nitric acid. Bad move. The next day when they are required to join a group hug, Sauron burns him to a crisp.

Yes, I used to be sparki.


Aug 10 2007, 1:42am

Post #14 of 19 (750 views)
Love the Metallica, sparks!// [In reply to] Can't Post


"I have a perfect horror of words that are not backed up by deeds."
- Theodore Roosevelt, Oyster Bay, NY, July 7, 1915
Disclaimer: The author of this message does not guarantee correct grammar, spelling or English usage. No responsibility can be accepted for the use of this message as a guide to written English.

Finrod Felagund 5
The Shire

Aug 10 2007, 5:57am

Post #15 of 19 (767 views)
Tom Riddle returns! [In reply to] Can't Post

  For some reason, Sparki, your post got me thinking about if Voldemort came back to a reunion held at the orphanage around the time book 7 takes place. Here is my comedic version of what would happen.

Voldemort stands in a corner, hoping to be noticed by someone. Most of the other attendees have already found friends and are speaking to them. Finally, when it seems like no one will remember him at all, an old woman comes up to Voldemort. She is the woman who used to run the Oprhanage.

"Well well," said the woman, "Tom Riddle. It's been ages, and yet you have hardly changed at all from that little boy of 11 I remember so well! Well except for the red eyes, the snake-like face, and being white as a ghost!"

"Yes, ma'am, its me." Voldemort said, "I'm sorry though I can't say the same for you...you look about 70 or 80 years old. Do you still work at the ophanage?"

"Oh no Tom," she beamed, "I retired some years back. However, I wondered what you've been up to. The way you left us, I was certain you'd wind up a serial murderer, or a politician. Well?"

"To be honest, I'm actually a bit of both," Voldemort laughed. "In fact, I have become the most feared and hated Dark Wizard in the history of the world. I have ripped my soul into seven pieces, and am in the process of taking over everything, starting with Great Britain."

"Always knew you'd go far. I have to say, you're probably our most successful student!"

"Now now," Voldemort said, "I hear that the little boy I once tortured in a cave just recently got promoted to assistant manager at Dairy Queen. I wouldn't want to make this a contest."

"Oh Tom...always so humble!" The woman put a hand on Voldemort's arm, and he shied away from the touch. He frowned as he looked at his watch.

"I'm sorry, but I'm in a bit of a rush. I'm taking over the Ministry of Magic at 6:00 AM tomorrow, then the entire Parliament at around 10:00. Early start you know!"

"You have always been such a hard worker Tom! Always keep your eyes on your goal!"

Voldemort smiled and left the room in a hurry, and two hooded figures that had been guarding the door walk off with him. "Such a nice boy...that Tom!" said the old woman. She looked around and saw that all the other guests were flat on their backs, eyes opened staring at the ceiling. "Such a nice boy," she sighed.

the artist formerly known as sparki

Aug 26 2007, 4:00pm

Post #16 of 19 (736 views)
love that! [In reply to] Can't Post

Although it did remind me of an age old thread of yours regarding Morgoth working in Dairy Queen...

Yes, I used to be sparki.


Oct 24 2007, 1:57am

Post #17 of 19 (810 views)
They kill each other [In reply to] Can't Post

Sauron tries to make another ruling ring, only voldemort tries to make it into a horcrux... so Sauron gets mad and hits him on the head with his mace just as voldemort unleashes avada kedavra... then frodo and harry come in and steal the uneaten pizza.

If Gandalf could just jump on an eagle and fly into Mordor... WHY THE BLOODY HELL DIDN'T HE DO IT THREE MOVIES AGO!?!

The Shire

Oct 25 2007, 8:33pm

Post #18 of 19 (3431 views)
A Love Interest [In reply to] Can't Post

Sauron and Voldemort fight for the attention of the White Witch. orcs v death eaters, the eye v the wand, the ring v avada kedavra. In all the destruction nobody notices the white witch has run off with the evil guy with a tentacle beard from pirates of the caribbean. Wink


Jun 29 2013, 2:42pm

Post #19 of 19 (176 views)
Sauron [In reply to] Can't Post



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