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Hamfast Gamgee
Dor-Lomin
Mar 15 2011, 9:13am
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Put a purist on board
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Does anyone think that someone in the scripting or editing team should be a purist Hobbit expert, and the team should listen to him/her just to make sure that they don't make any mistakes in the plotline with the story that Tolkien originally wrote in the book? I'm not sure there was such a person in the Lotr films
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Owain
Dor-Lomin
Mar 15 2011, 9:20am
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This has been discussed/exhausted...
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Have you used the search feature for this topic?
I don't mean this in a rude way, just asking...
Middle Earth is New Zealand!
"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."
(This post was edited by Owain on Mar 15 2011, 9:26am)
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Welsh hero
Mithlond
Mar 15 2011, 10:33am
Post #3 of 150
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Just because you love the book
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does not mean you know what's good for the film
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Bound
Nargothrond
Mar 15 2011, 10:48am
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it boils down to one thing for...
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On all aspects of the idea of translating a book to film - the script writers/ director MUST be allowed to tell the story they want to tell using the sourse material.
So no :)
the man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed
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Crunchable Birdses
Nargothrond
Mar 15 2011, 12:52pm
Post #5 of 150
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"There's no talking wallet! This is an outrage!"
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One of the great things about adaptations is that it brings a creative freedom to the project that inspires and motivates everyone involved. If the film just had to be a rigid word-for-word recital of the book, I can't see how the creative team could get particularly excited about doing it, and also I'm not sure I'd be particulary interested in seeing it. I've read the book enough times.
* crunch *
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geordie
Dor-Lomin
Mar 15 2011, 1:26pm
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It wasn't a wallet - it was a talking purse
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- sorry, I was interrupting - do carry on. 
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Arwen's daughter
Gondolin
Mar 15 2011, 1:52pm
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Not sure what good it would do
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For the big stuff, like where do the eagles come in and when does the dragon die, I should hope the filmmakers have invested in a copy of The Hobbit or two!
For the smaller stuff I see two main problems: PJ isn't likely to listen to a Tolkien expert who's not also a filmmaker. That is to say, certain changes are absoluetly necessary to film adaptation and PJ's word over what's necessary is going to trump someone who's never adapted a book to film.
And second: do any two Tolkien experts agree on any given analysis of a scene?
My LiveJournal
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RosieLass
Doriath
Mar 15 2011, 2:19pm
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We (of course) had similar discussions to this over the LOTR films, and someone pointed out, what if PJ had wanted to use a chorus line of dancing clowns? Should we just look at that as part of his artistic vision?
Someone will claim "oh, of course Peter Jackson wouldn't try that!"
Well, how do you know, except to judge his filmmaking decisions by your standards of what is acceptable or not?
Us "purists" are just judging his decisions by our standards.
And that's where the really good discussions come from.
It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)
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Captain Salt
Dor-Lomin
Mar 15 2011, 2:25pm
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besides, in what way are Peter, Fran, & Philipa NOT Tolkien purists? I assume you've never seen the behind-the-scenes features on the LotR DVD's?
I would rather be watching Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit" and Ridley Scott's "Prometheus"...it's going to be a long few years.
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RosieLass
Doriath
Mar 15 2011, 2:26pm
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So her influence was probably more subtle.
But I got the impression from the extras that Philippa was very instrumental in reining in some of PJ's worst excesses.
It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)
(This post was edited by RosieLass on Mar 15 2011, 2:27pm)
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Gimilkhad
Lindon
Mar 15 2011, 2:35pm
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I got the impression that many of the character changes; changes in Faramir, changes in Frodo/Sam/Gollum dynamic in RotK, came from Phillipa and Fran.
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Captain Salt
Dor-Lomin
Mar 15 2011, 2:53pm
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that all three love Tolkien and his world, and made the most faithful adaptation they could while still getting the thing to work as a movie and not a book.
I would rather be watching Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit" and Ridley Scott's "Prometheus"...it's going to be a long few years.
(This post was edited by Captain Salt on Mar 15 2011, 2:54pm)
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sphdle1
Hithlum
Mar 15 2011, 3:54pm
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Does one have to define oneself as such to be a purist?
Someone that is more loyal to Tolkien and the books, but still loves the movies overall ... are they a purist? Or do you think there is a complete grey scale of levels between both books and movies? <:-|
sphdle1
"You shall not pass!"
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Mar 15 2011, 4:48pm
Post #15 of 150
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Does anyone think that someone in the scripting or editing team should be a purist Hobbit expert, and the team should listen to him/her just to make sure that they don't make any mistakes in the plotline with the story that Tolkien originally wrote in the book? I'm not sure there was such a person in the Lotr films.
By accounts Christopher Lee was the go-to guy on the LOTR set when it came to the book. He reads LOTR every year, and has actually met Tolkien. Cast and crew, including Jackson, often went to him to as an advisor for details on characters, story, lore, pronunciation, and so forth.
For the screenwriting team Philippa Boyens seems to have been the principal advocate. However, it appears she was a screenwriter first and Purist second. Jackson and Walsh seemed to be screenwriters first and foremost and thus determined to maintain a three-act structure for each film. (Which accounts for a lot of the changes.) It is notable that the screenwriting team wore out over 40 copies of LOTR during writing, production, and editing. (I for one would love to get a peak at all the marginalia.)
Principals were also advocates for the book. For example, though Mortensen and McKellen had not read the book previously, they immediately did so upon being cast. They referred to it constantly throughout filming and would discuss variations from the book with Jackson until either they won out, or were satisfied with his reasoning. Just about everyone on the production from the biggest star to the lowliest gopher had read or did read LOTR. Copies were routinely kept around each set and workshop for immediate reference at any time. Additionally many of the cast and crew kept personal copies with them during shooting, filled with personal notes and such. Indeed, McKellen had a pocket sewn inside of all his costumes where he would keep his personal copy. He said he often produced it from beneath his robes right in the midst of filming to discuss variations from the book with Jackson. (Liv Tyler and David Wenham have also spoken of their discussions with the screenwriters regarding the variation of their characters from the book.)
It is a mistake to imagine that changes to the book were done capriciously and at a whim. Changes were discussed and debated during the screenwriting process, production meetings, and on the sets. There is a reason for each change, though some of us might not agree with that reason.
I would imagine the same will hold for The Hobbit. No doubt many copies of the book have already been worn out during screenwriting, and many more will be used during production.
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Yes, I know the bridge film has been dropped. Just because I used the words "bridge film" in my post doesn't mean you have to get all excited and post "The bridge film has been dropped". I already know that. Thank you.
(This post was edited by Darkstone on Mar 15 2011, 4:50pm)
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RosieLass
Doriath
Mar 15 2011, 4:52pm
Post #16 of 150
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I think there are degrees of purism.
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Mostly self-defined. 
I consider myself pretty high on the purist scale; however, there were some things that PJ changed that I loved.
I loved the more sympathetic, less high-and-mighty Boromir.
I also LOVED Arwen's pursuit by the Nazgul to the Ford of Bruinen.
I think we can let everyone be as purist (or not) as they like. I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with me. I do have a problem with being told I'm wrong and that I have to conform to someone else's opinion.
It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)
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macfalk
Doriath
Mar 15 2011, 5:36pm
Post #18 of 150
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What exactly defines a purist? Tell me that, somebody //
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The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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Flagg
Dor-Lomin
Mar 15 2011, 5:41pm
Post #20 of 150
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What would impel Peter to hire someone to tell him that he should follow the book? If he wanted to follow the book so much that he would be willing to select someone specifically to tell him not to stray from the book... why wouldn't he just follow the book?
I am in favour of relaxing and simply letting the filmmakers do whatever they want.
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Flagg
Dor-Lomin
Mar 15 2011, 5:45pm
Post #21 of 150
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Someone who wants adaptations to be as close to the originals as possible. //
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macfalk
Doriath
Mar 15 2011, 5:46pm
Post #22 of 150
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Well, that makes 99% of us here, including myself, purists! //
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The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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Flagg
Dor-Lomin
Mar 15 2011, 6:03pm
Post #24 of 150
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Do 99% of us think a direct, literal, word-for-word live-action duplicate of the book with absolutely nothing changed, added or removed would be the best possible outcome? If there's something you think should be changed during the adaptation process, then you're not really a pure purist.
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macfalk
Doriath
Mar 15 2011, 6:04pm
Post #25 of 150
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Somebody who would auto-dislike any adaption if it was not written, produced, scored and directed by JRR Tolkien?
The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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