...while I did like Pullman's books and think the movie holds promise, the two properties really don't have much to do with each other. "They who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night." -- E.A. Poe
I must be missing something. What does The Golden Compass have to do with LOTR? Nothing, that I am aware of. Good one New Line. Must admit that the trailer is beautiful though, but I'm still confused as to what it's doing on the site. Must be a mistake. ;)
Oh. Hairspray. That's right. That's what I've been waiting for. We had a nice discussion about remakes on the "Movies" thread this week. May I say that I don't see a reason for this remake either? ;) "A dead thing can go with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it." ~Chesterton
Pullman hates Tolkien, and spews out his nasty little opinions in the most hateful terms every chance he gets; a Tolkien website should not be promoting a film based on his little book. (I also have a feeling Tolkien would be a little disgusted by his atheism.) Nope - I don't like it either, at all.
Aerlinn's Law #17: "He who wants a rose must respect the thorn." ~~~~ Persian Proverb
"She who wants a Captain must respect the horn." ~~~B-Girl Proverb
I saw the trailer a few weeks ago, and I have to admit that my heart took a leap to see the Ring filling the screen, but was quickly put off with what seemed like a desperate attempt to attach their success with LotR to this. Typical marketing ploy and Hollywoodism. They wouldn't have to be doing this if they'd moved forward with The Hobbit as they should have. No manipulation needed... just open the doors and let the fans flood in for a peek at The Hobbit trailer like we did for FotR, TT and Rotk. Remember that? When we were celebrated with those heady teases? I know I bought tickets and went to movies I never intended on staying for just to see the LotR trailers! Pippin's double-take as he first met Treebeard... the great Ent's nose serving as a handle. "MERRY!!!" [Huh?] Our first glimpse of the Black Riders, Rivendell, Shelob as we see Frodo come running in panic through a tunnel, holding Sting in one hand and the phial aloft in the other as he runs towards us, turns, and there she comes! *sigh* Gandalf on the bridge... "YOU... SHALL NOT... PASS!" *twitch*
Sorry... got lost in the moment. *shakes head* Cripes, those were great, magical days.
You're not silly. It's ridiculous that they should attach the LotR website to this project (at the same time Shaye's teasing of a change of heart). The Golden Compass looks grand... but nothing can latch itself onto the shirt-tail of LotR and hope to compare... except maybe by The Hobbit and it's sequel led by the director who has earned the right to finish the job.
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!
"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
(I also have a feeling Tolkien would be a little disgusted by his atheism.)
I was going to say something about that, but chickened out at the last moment. Thanks for having more guts than me! I wasn't aware of Pullman's thoughts on Tolkien. It makes what New Line is doing absolutely shameful. "A dead thing can go with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it." ~Chesterton
well, it reflects how they see things, I think...
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In the thread below, about "spin", there's some speculation back and forth about whether or not Jackson "used" the fans for his own ends.
What New Line is doing here, I think falls in the "use" the fans and "use the artist" category. Linking Golden Compass with LOTR in this way, without respecting the differences in the stories, their appeal or their fan bases, shows a real lack of understanding. I think they could have easily include a link to "other New Line films" to use the LOTR site to promote Golden Compass, but to blatantly drop it in here like this is pretty bizarre. The opening of the trailer takes it a step further, by using an image from the LOTR films to sell something else, which they put in the same category but I don't.
These kinds of moves really backfire, and they didn't need to do this to get my attention, as a LOTR fan, for their new film. They would have done better to respect me rather than offend me. Weaver
of NL to use LOTR in the trailer when I saw it. But I hope to see Golden Compass, if not just to see how Daniel Craig does. "There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark."
Frankly, that's what puts me off wanting to read the books.
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Apart from the fact that I'm simply not interested in fantasy fiction.
I have heard about Pullman's rather militant atheism, and his pointed criticisms of Tolkien, neither of which endears me to his sort of fiction.
But as JRRT himself said of his critics...he doesn't care for the kinds of books they like, either. So there! This writing business. Pencils and what-not. Over-rated, if you ask me. Silly stuff. Nothing in it.
I found the anti-religious stuff ignorable.
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I suppose it helps that I'm not religious myself, but I'm usually put off by militant atheism just the same; these books didn't have that effect on me, though I was unimpressed for other reasons. If, as suggested by interviews I've seen, Pullman intended an anti-religious screed, his intent was derailed by his own wrong-end-of-the-telescope view of religion: the faith in HDM simply didn't bear enough resemblance to real-world religion for his discreditable protrayal of the one to work as an attack on the other. (The same interviews do suggest that Pullman's a jerk, but lots of good books have been written by jerks. If he'd been a bit more coherent with his sub-creation, and thrown in a few more sympathetic characters and a plot, I could've ignored the grating public statements with no problem.) And there were murmured hints of creatures more terrible than all these, but they had no name.
not a Tolkien site. New Line obviously thinks there is a potential crossover audience, and they are probably right. I like that the trailer is there. The Golden Compass section on the site is beautifully executed, and the look of the trailer is great.
Don't let Pullman's personality and religious beliefs (or lack thereof) stop you from reading his fiction and forming your own opinion about it. I enjoyed his books, although they did drag on sometimes.
I'm not sure why the "Harry Potter is satanic" crowd isn't all over Pullman like maggots on road kill, though. With caffeine, all things are possible.
didn't attain the same giddy heights in pop-culture that Rowling did? Parents don't know to complain about something if they don't know it exists.
I really enjoyed the originality of Pullman's books, and while I have some niggles about the plot (that have nothing to do with its anti-Church theme) I admit that he handled some difficult plot points very well. I hope that the film tackles head-on as many of these themes as possible, and doesn't instead focus on the fantastic elements as the reason for the story being on-screen. Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..." Dwarves: "Pretty rings..." Men: "Pretty rings..." Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
I'm not planning to read them, for the first reason I stated.
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I don't really like fantasy fiction.
I've tried other fantasy books, by authors whose personal philosphies don't offend me, and I simply can't get through them. This writing business. Pencils and what-not. Over-rated, if you ask me. Silly stuff. Nothing in it.
Recently voted the best children's book of the past 70 years.
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More precisely, The Golden Compass (aka Northern Lights) was selected as the best book among the past seventy years' winners of the Carnegie medal.
Has anyone here read Eve Garnett's The Family from One End Street, which beat The Hobbit for the Carnegie in 1937? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Discuss The Children of Húrin in the Reading Room, June 11-October 14.
It's the lack of coherence that bothers me too
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If he'd been a bit more coherent with his sub-creation...
I read the first book in the series and enjoyed the premise, especially the daemons which I thought were a great concept. I bought the mystical stuff and the "steam-punk" ideas too, and even the armoured bears. But when we started to get to steam helicopters (or whatever they were) and witches on broomsticks I figured he was just throwing every fantasy element he could think of into the mix. For me, it's just too messy a mix of creatures and concepts pulled from all over the fantasy galaxy.
I think I understand what RosieLass means about not liking fantasy - the Pullman books are just so fantasy. LotR has a coherent sense of a world that's fully integrated and believable in its own way. It doesn't play fast and loose with fantasy just for fantasy's sake. I'd say the same about Harry Potter - the world is fully thought-through and every element makes sense in its context.
I've heard that the later Pullman books are strongly written, especially in terms of the central characters' relationships. But I didn't get that far because the fantasy elements turned me off before I got there. And I must say that this attempt by New Line to try to ride LotR's coat-tails has prejudiced me against the movies too. ...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew, and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth; and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore glimmered and was lost.
It didn't strike me as anti-religious as much as
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anti-organized religion. I thought Pullman's ire was for the institution, not the basis for it. I am a believer but not a follower of any specific dogma, so I wasn't offended. I suppose if one's religion is tied to a specific church (particularly "the" Church), it might be offensive.
As for New Line showing an ad that has the Ring turn into the Golden Compass, I wasn't offended by that either. I thought it was rather clever. They are both fantasy stories, after all. To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover the prisoner was you. - anon.
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
(This post was edited by Annael on Jul 15 2007, 3:42pm)
I haven't read the books and know nothing of the author but I thought the trailer looked great. The link to LOTR didn't bother me at all and the movie has a very charming Daniel Craig in it so I'll go see it and hopefully form an opinion on the movie as a stand alone work of art. Didn't like the cgi bear though, not real enough. "I walk along the shore and I gaze At the light that radiates down Will it travel forth to you Far across this shimmering sea?" formerly linkinparkelf