|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Mar 4 2011, 5:21am
Post #1 of 91
(1640 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Gandalf, his epic fire enchantments, his formidable, sweeping beard. . . and a few other things
|
Can't Post
|
|
Well, folks. . . this is it. It may be that I have touched on the subjects here or there before. But, at least until after we know things for certain and it goes from hopes to either praise  or complaints  , this will almost certainly be the last time I make a thread specifically on or related to these topics. Why bother now? Call it a secret hope that, if things are not already aligned, Peter may stroll through the forums while recovering and have an epiphany  .
Here it is then. Will Gandalf's magic measure up to the feats he performs in The Hobbit, in keeping with the magic he is seen to perform in that novel AND in the novel of The Fellowship of The Ring, or will Sir Peter and company be toning it down so far as to all but snuff it out? I am hoping that this time Gandalf's famous skill in fire enchantments, and his flashes, "like lightning in the cave" get all their proper screen time this time around.  
I am also very much hoping that the costume and hair folks don't decide they can afford to trim back his beard because the films take place a several decades before Fellowship. I need his beard to be at least as full and as long as it was at its epic best in FOTR. As good as when he lectures Saruman about the pallantir and as when he comes through the door at Bag End and stoops near to the Ring.
And of course, I am still hoping that Glorfindel at least has, at long last, his well deserved cameo in Rivendell and his seat, even if it is a relatively quiet one, on The White Council.
Well. I have done my part. I have made my pleas for the proper handling of these things, and shall here after be quiet about them, until the time for applause or for umbrige hath arrived.
P.S. I will be eagerly awaiting the very first screen shot of Gandalf in full costume!
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
(This post was edited by AinurOlorin on Mar 4 2011, 5:23am)
|
|
|
Owain
Tol Eressea
Mar 4 2011, 8:13am
Post #2 of 91
(965 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I respect what you think about this topic...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
but I can't help but feel that it is "beating a dead horse" at this point.
Middle Earth is New Zealand!
"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."
|
|
|
BlackCountry
Rivendell
Mar 4 2011, 12:23pm
Post #3 of 91
(922 views)
Shortcut
|
hopefully Cirdan as well.
As for Gandalf's magic I do hope that Sir Peter follows what happens in the books. I also recall watching the Extended Edition Extras that he even admitted that he's not a fan of wizards hence the kung fu like battle in Isengard... :p
|
|
|
Mooseboy018
Grey Havens
Mar 4 2011, 7:45pm
Post #4 of 91
(848 views)
Shortcut
|
But I always wondered why he had Saruman shoot that random fireball in RotK if he doesn't like that kind of magic in movies.
|
|
|
M&M
Rivendell
Mar 4 2011, 9:05pm
Post #5 of 91
(806 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Although I agree with everything you suggested...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I have to agree with Owain on this one. It seems like most everything has been decided, and besides, these thoughts have been discussed to death by now. xD
(This post was edited by M&M on Mar 4 2011, 9:05pm)
|
|
|
duats
Grey Havens
Mar 4 2011, 9:11pm
Post #6 of 91
(818 views)
Shortcut
|
Gandalf the Grey's beard in FoTR bugged me. Now, the length was fine. I figure if it had been any longer, it would have bordered on parody.
My issue with the beard is that it looked really thin and scraggly. As a result, it was constantly reminded that it was fake, glued-on beard.
I'd love to see it look a bit thicker and more natural-looking this time around.
|
|
|
KAOS82
Rohan
Mar 5 2011, 1:51am
Post #7 of 91
(797 views)
Shortcut
|
Glorfindel was sacrified in LOTR and I think he will in TH too
about Gandalf wizardy I hope to see it in Goblin's cave but also at Dol Goldur, yeah PJ is not a huge fan of that but this time there shouldn't be excuses!!!
TÚRIN TURAMBAR DAGNIR GLAURUNGA & NIENOR NÍNIEL
|
|
|
moreorless
Gondor
Mar 5 2011, 7:21am
Post #8 of 91
(816 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Part of the reason it was cut maybe?
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Its been discuessed to death I agree but I think Gandalf's magic was handled perfectly in the films and actually reflected the tone of the books very closely. Tolkien was able to prevent Gandalf's magic desending into childish "whizz bang" by the language he used, a more literal approach would IMHO have failied to do the same.
|
|
|
AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Mar 5 2011, 8:02am
Post #9 of 91
(782 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Well. . . what can I tell you. People have their fanatical causes.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
This is probably one of mine.  lol
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
|
|
|
AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Mar 5 2011, 8:05am
Post #10 of 91
(769 views)
Shortcut
|
Yeah. Each to his own, but if the books say something specific, I feel like that should be followed to the most part, unless there is an absolute need to deviate. The battle in Isengard could have had a few more epic features without being a cheesy, lightning from the eyeballs circus. hopefully Cirdan as well.
As for Gandalf's magic I do hope that Sir Peter follows what happens in the books. I also recall watching the Extended Edition Extras that he even admitted that he's not a fan of wizards hence the kung fu like battle in Isengard... :p
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
|
|
|
AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Mar 5 2011, 8:07am
Post #11 of 91
(759 views)
Shortcut
|
|
M&M, let say I am holding out hope
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
And hoping that if this thread is run across someone MIGHT have one of those Arwen at Helm's deep epiphanies. Lol. Filming hasn't started, so its speak now or forever hold my peace, you know.
Love your avatar/icon, by the way. That is just priceless. LOL!
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
(This post was edited by AinurOlorin on Mar 5 2011, 8:09am)
|
|
|
AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Mar 5 2011, 8:12am
Post #12 of 91
(774 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I hope they make a proper place for Glorfindel. He is on the council after all
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
And after having been so badly snubbed in the last film, I think there is no excuse this time around when time is going to be spent both in Rivendell AND with The WHite Council. He is close to both Gandalf and Elrond, he lives in Rivendell, he is on The Council, he is, by Tolkien's own account, the most powerful of The Noldo remaining in Middle Earth aside from Galadriel herself. . . it would just be an ugly snub to essentially go out of the way to keep him from having even a brief speaking cameo, while adding in characters like Itaril. Glorfindel was sacrified in LOTR and I think he will in TH too
about Gandalf wizardy I hope to see it in Goblin's cave but also at Dol Goldur, yeah PJ is not a huge fan of that but this time there shouldn't be excuses!!!
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
|
|
|
AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Mar 5 2011, 8:19am
Post #14 of 91
(779 views)
Shortcut
|
It is not so much the language in those scenes, as the way in which the magic is handled. And if the film took the exact approach of the novels, then those scenes could be both tasteful AND magnificent, giving Gandalf his proper due, without making a tacky or cheap representation of events. I heard too many neophytes deriding Gandalf unfairly because Sir Peter decided to deviate from Tolkien in the portrayl of some of his more impressive feats of Wizardry. I do not ask that anything be added that isn't in the books (the way things WERE added for some of the other characters), but I do hope that in this regard the books are taken as gospel and that the film remains utterly true to them.
Its been discuessed to death I agree but I think Gandalf's magic was handled perfectly in the films and actually reflected the tone of the books very closely. Tolkien was able to prevent Gandalf's magic desending into childish "whizz bang" by the language he used, a more literal approach would IMHO have failied to do the same.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
|
|
|
Kangi Ska
Half-elven
Mar 5 2011, 9:34am
Post #15 of 91
(757 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Sure...but then we get the talking animals and drunken Elves.//
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.
At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
|
|
|
Kangi Ska
Half-elven
Mar 5 2011, 9:53am
Post #16 of 91
(778 views)
Shortcut
|
The problem: Glorfindel was not critical, as a character, to the plot of the Fellowship of the Rings while strengthening Arwen's character early was deemed necessary because of the incorporation of the Aragorn/Arwen love story from the LotR Appendices bagged for an early and strong introduction of Arwen. Glorfindel became the obvious victim as he had no role in the latter story and his function was easily passed to Arwen. I do not view this as a snub but just as a part of streamlining the plot as was the complete skipping of Tom Bombadil (who, by the way, had a much larger role in the book than Glorfindel.)
The next question: Does Glorfindel have a mission critical role in the Hobbit? I guess Peter will answer that one. My answer is: I think it is possible that Glorfindel might appear but I doubt it will be a significant part. Probably like the non leads at the Council of Elrond.
Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.
At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
|
|
|
Steerpike
Bree
Mar 5 2011, 12:06pm
Post #17 of 91
(753 views)
Shortcut
|
I have a sneaking suspicion that Glorfindel himself has not been particularly perturbed by all this snubbing.
He's a bit part at best - who needs him..?
|
|
|
Crunchable Birdses
Rohan
Mar 5 2011, 2:21pm
Post #18 of 91
(755 views)
Shortcut
|
I don't think Gandalf's magic was snubbed really. I think it was far more effective to show his power in the films through other means. When I think about it, I think from a movie perspective, the "Wise, old mentor/wizard" types always work best when they're shown more to be operating on a higher level, steering the course of events in a more fundamental way, rather than wading in and throwing lightning bolts around during random battles. I remember how much stronger the character of Yoda was in the original Star Wars trilogy, compared to the backflipping, lightsaber-wielding sonic-the-hedgehog Yoda we got in those abysmal "Episode..." films.
* crunch *
|
|
|
Flagg
Tol Eressea
Mar 5 2011, 2:23pm
Post #19 of 91
(751 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Glorfindel and the White Council
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I hope Glorfindel isn't given a prominent place in the White Council/Dol Guldur sequences. We already have Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, Elrond and Galadriel – more than enough characters to fill out those scenes. Adding even more would further reduce the screentime alotted to each character, which is something I don't want to see. I would be perfectly comfortable with a brief appearance from Glorfindel at one of the White Council meetings, however. Perhaps the first meeting could be a cameo-fest a bit like the Council of Elrond, featuring plenty of minor characters – Glorfindel, Gildor, Erestor, Elladan, Elrohir, Celeborn, Círdan – but only a small number of members (the five key characters I mentioned earlier) would be selected to go on the mission to Dol Guldur? I think that the early White Council meeting(s) would be a perfectly logical point in the story to add in some harmless cameos.
|
|
|
xy
Rohan
Mar 5 2011, 7:38pm
Post #21 of 91
(719 views)
Shortcut
|
I liked it, especially Gandalf the Grey.
More flashy magic would just cause the non-book readers to think they're seeing Dumbledore 2.0.
|
|
|
AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Mar 5 2011, 10:39pm
Post #22 of 91
(751 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Glorfindel was fairly critical until the pulled the old bait and switch on him. Lol
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
The Bridge of Meitheinel (check sp) would have been held impassably against Aragorn and the hobbits, had Glorfindel not driven several of The Nazgul from it, for one thing. I really think, if only for the sake of due credit and posterity, and for the only representation of a mighty male Noldo that we really get, and for the sake of his significance in the history of The Third Age, from driving off The Witch King of Angmar at the Battle of Fornost, to making the legendary prophecy, from his friendship with Gandalf to his being the mightiest of the High Elves who dwelt in The House of Elrond, to his place on both The Council of The Wise and his place on THe Council of Elrond. . . give him his proper place and a speaking line or two on The White Council. If they do no more than have him greet and embrace old Gandalf when Thorin & Company arrive in Rivendel, and ask a question of Saruman at the Council, it will be enough. I and most of his other fans will be satisfied. I think it will be more than pleasing to most to just see him get at least the amount of screentime that MUCH less consequential and auspicious characters like Otto Proudfoot, Barliman Butterbur, Haldir (though please spare him a false death like the one they forced on poor Haldir. . . especially as Glorfindel shows up standing behind Elrond in Minas Tirith!  That is right, I said the one BEHIND Elrond!), Prince Imhrail, Gamling, Wulf, the random Elf who asks Arwen not to part with the Elf Troop she is riding in, the random mother and children in the Westfold, Ugluk, Farmer Maggot, and the Hobbit who gives up the location of Bag End to The Nazgul. . . not to mention, in the Extended, Fatty Bolger, Gaffer Gamgee, Rosie Cotton, and Ted Sandyman! TED SANDYMAN for God's sake! Merciful Father! Merciful Manwe! Ted Sandyman gets to have his shining moment while Glorfindel sits silent in the shadows . . . @#%%#@$#^%#^$^!!!! (and other assorted swear words)
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
|
|
|
AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Mar 5 2011, 10:48pm
Post #23 of 91
(731 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Yet there was never any doubt as to Yoda having great power.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Saruman and Arwen essentially show Gandalf up. I won't get into EE ROTK, as the errors there were blasphemous and never really occured.
I would be fine with people, layman and the likes, coming away with the notion that Gandalf were not particularly powerful in wizardry. . . if the book supported that. It does not. All I am saying is, this time around, Sir Peter needs to abide by the book, especially as Gandalf's magic is ESSENTIAL to two of the more pivotal moments in the book, the first of which (his magic in The Great Goblin's cavern) is absolutely essential.
If Tolkien said it happened in a certain way, and gives specific details for the scene, then I have a REAL problem with anyone going back and blatantly changing it, diminishing the power of Gandalf in the process, sheerly because of their own personal likes or distastes.
Gandalf can show forth power in a way both majestic, impressive, and in keeping with character. A way that is astounding, but not excessive, nor tacky/cheesy. It can CERTAINLY be done. Saruman does it in FOTR. Arwen does it, even though she rather hijacks the powers of Elrond and Gandalf in order to do it. It can be done, without him being Dumbledoreized. Anyway, is there anyone here who doesn't know full well that it is Dumbledore who borrows many of his defining traits from old Mithrandir, NOT the other way round.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
|
|
|
Flagg
Tol Eressea
Mar 5 2011, 10:50pm
Post #24 of 91
(710 views)
Shortcut
|
and the Hobbit who gives up the location of Bag End to The Nazgul. . . That's supposedly Farmer Maggot, who is also the voice in the corn field, though that's a whole other debate.
|
|
|
Crunchable Birdses
Rohan
Mar 6 2011, 1:17am
Post #25 of 91
(687 views)
Shortcut
|
In the LotR films, Gandalf went toe-to-toe with a Balrog, and killed it. Also, he came back from the dead. So yeah, I came away with the notion that he was pretty powerful.
* crunch *
|
|
|
|
|
1
