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Annael
Immortal
Jul 11 2007, 1:12am
Post #1 of 30
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Another Harry Potter poll - what about Snape?
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Will Snape turn out to be good or bad?
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Morwen
Rohan
Jul 11 2007, 3:26am
Post #2 of 30
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I picked the last option, but I admit I don't have a clue what he's up to. Snape's very last conversation with Dumbledore makes me suspect that he is not the obvious villian we have been led to believe, but on the other hand, he truly does seem to dislike Harry. This is one the mysteries that I can't wait to solve.
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Aerlinn
Lorien
Jul 11 2007, 3:57am
Post #3 of 30
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"Snape's got something else going on altogether".
What? If I knew that I'd start a website.
He's a marvelous character, Snape... Harry didn't imagine the animosity he showed him right from the very beginning, and yet before the first book's out he's going to great effort to save Harry's life. What I love about Rowling is that they didn't walk off into the fog together talking about the beginning of a beautiful friendship - they still loathe the very sound of each other's names, and it's gotten more intense with every book. Harry finds out about Snape's pitiful career as a student, and instead of understanding and harmony he despises him for it - while knowing that Harry knows makes Snape even more venomous. But! Have his feelings about Harry and the preferential treatment the boy receives bolstered any leanings toward the Dark Side? Or is he really a double agent? Triple? Can you really quit the service of Voldemort? Did he plan things with Dumbledore? How long is it again till book 7 comes out??
ETA - And why does my footer *do* that?
(This post was edited by Aerlinn on Jul 11 2007, 3:59am)
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RosieLass
Valinor
Jul 11 2007, 4:34am
Post #4 of 30
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That's one of the reasons I grew less fond of Harry as a character.
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He's a jerk. And his father was, too.
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Aerlinn
Lorien
Jul 11 2007, 4:52am
Post #5 of 30
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But he's a kid. Kids can be jerks, especially the teenaged variety. And Snape's never given him any reason to even consider being remotely sympathetic. It was always pretty clear that Snape saved his life out of sheer duty - he hates Harry, but that doesn't mean he wants him dead (unless...). Any favors he's done Harry have been under duress and loudly protested. He's cruel, jealous, viciously sarcastic, and bitter, and seems to always have been.
Harry never knew his father; all he's had to go by is what he's been told by people who loved him. James Potter might have had a streak of the bully in him - but he inspired a lot of love and admiration, too.
And young Snape went about wearing a "Kick Me" sign so big that it almost but not quite obscured the massive chip on his shoulder. Cause and effect - I think his attitude and lack of social skills caused the bullying, not the other way around.
Nobody's perfect. That's one reason why I like these books.
*tries not to picture RosieLass blown up like Aunt Marge if Harry heard that comment about his father* :)
(This post was edited by Aerlinn on Jul 11 2007, 4:59am)
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RosieLass
Valinor
Jul 11 2007, 5:23am
Post #6 of 30
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Seriously, though. I have no sympathy for bullies. None. Nobody deserves to be bullied, no matter how pathetic they are.
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Annael
Immortal
Jul 11 2007, 3:29pm
Post #7 of 30
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it was necessary for adolescent Harry to learn that his father wasn't the perfect being he'd built James up to be. Most teenagers are, after all, painfully aware of all the shortcomings of their parents, which may actually aid them in learning to be independent. Dumbledore keeping himself apart from Harry in Book 5 was another necessity for that process. Harry of all people has got to grow up very fast.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Jul 11 2007, 6:52pm
Post #8 of 30
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I have a hard time liking Harry much when he shows that bullying tendency.
On the other hand, I can still understand. There was a painful episode in my fourth grade year when I was a bully. (We had a psychotic teacher who liked to encourage some kids to bully others, and I, I'm afraid to say, was a teacher-pleaser.) A few years ago I wrote an abject apology to the man who was my victim when we were ten, but he never wrote back, so I don't know how it went over. Anyway, it's given me an awareness all my life of how easy it is to be part of a mob, and how careful I have to be not to let it happen again.
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Idril Celebrindal
Tol Eressea
Jul 11 2007, 6:56pm
Post #9 of 30
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Snape may be part of Dumbledore's deeper game
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He's a nasty git and a bully, but I get the feeling that he's not totally evil. I think Snape has been acting at least in part according to Dumbledore's plan, although he's undoubtably got his own agenda.
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Earendil The Mariner
Registered User
Jul 11 2007, 9:11pm
Post #10 of 30
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Snape is probably playing an agent with sealed orders from Dumbledore, but may turn out to be a double agent or some such. or he is just a pawn in a pre calculated outcome set up by Dumbledore
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Darkstone
Immortal
Jul 11 2007, 10:36pm
Post #11 of 30
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Rowling may have copied a lot from LOTR, but the ending is straight from SW.
Snape is Harry's father.
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Donry
Tol Eressea
Jul 11 2007, 10:53pm
Post #12 of 30
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and Dumbledore have to be in on a plan together. Dumbledore has a horcrux and Snape knows about it. That way Dumbledore can search for Voldemort's remaining horcrux's without garnering any attention. Snape is a plant, and will inform the Order of Deatheater plans/movements. On the other hand....IF Snape is a baddie, he should go down as one of the baddest badguys. Cause he's just been evil from Day 1!!!
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Tyler
Lorien
Jul 12 2007, 12:18am
Post #13 of 30
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He's in his own little world i think
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SandWitch King
Rohan
Jul 12 2007, 5:41pm
Post #14 of 30
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If he is genuinely bad, I will be annoyed
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Rowling was so obvious with how she handled Snape that I always thought "NO WAY can it be that simple!" If it is that simple it takes away the value of previous books for me.
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entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jul 12 2007, 7:00pm
Post #15 of 30
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He starts in on Harry in the first book, the first Potions class. Harry had done nothing at that time, but Snape singles him out and sneers at something that Harry has no control over, his celebrity status. I find that unforgiveable, especially since Snape is a teacher.
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Alassea Elensar
Rivendell
Jul 12 2007, 9:00pm
Post #16 of 30
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I'm hoping that he'll turn out to be good, and that all the times he was mean to Harry were all for show. Just to make it look like he hated Harry, so that nobody would guess what was really going on. I guess we'll find out soon enough.
But here's something I think you might all like to read. It's from 2 years ago, just after HBP came out, and is quite long but very well thought out, and will certainly make you think. I can't remember where I found this, so my apologies if this was posted on TOR.n before. But even if it was posted here before, it absolutely deserves another read.
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RosieLass
Valinor
Jul 12 2007, 10:38pm
Post #17 of 30
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His behavior is wrong, certainly.
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But his sins don't excuse anyone else's.
And while I would never accept the excuse that someone's bad behavior is the result of a difficult childhood, it is at least more understandable than someone who didn't have a difficult childhood who still behaves badly (i.e., James Potter).
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RosieLass
Valinor
Jul 12 2007, 10:42pm
Post #18 of 30
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But couldn't he have had a more sympathetic flaw? Such as...I dunno...cheating on his exams or exceeding the broom speed limit? Or shoplifting his school supplies?
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Curious
Half-elven
Jul 16 2007, 7:52pm
Post #19 of 30
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I'll guess that Snape is really bad and hopes both of them die so he can set up
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for himself. I can't see him as good. He can't be that good of an actor, can he? So often his designs against Harry and his friends have been narrowly averted, and not because Snape held back in any way. And we know that Dumbledore can make some big mistakes -- he said so himself. Plus, Rowling has already played the Snape-is-good card in the very first book. To play it again, albeit on a larger scale, would be repetitive.
So instead I see Voldemort as the red herring, while Snape is not just bad but much, much worse than anyone suspected. Okay, I really don't have a clue, but that will be my guess. Since everyone expects Voldemort to die in the last book, perhaps Rowling will kill him right off and give us a totally unexpected cat and mouse game between Harry and Snape, the real villain of the series.
I'm almost more interested in how Slytherin can possibly unite with the other houses to defeat the Death Eaters, as the Sorting Hat has said it must. It seems as if Harry must set aside his animosity towards Draco Malfoy in order to make that work, but it also seems so unlikely that he would. But I think it quite as likely that Draco will help Harry as it is that Snape will do so, especially after Draco failed to kill Dumbledore.
What I am afraid of is that Rowling has been so good at confusing the issue and planting false clues that she will be unable to tie up all the loose ends, or that if she tries to do so it will spoil the story. Look at how much time Tolkien spent tying up loose ends at the end of LotR. Sauron falls in chapter 3 of Book 6, as I recall, and the rest of the book is about tying up loose ends. That's one reason I wonder if Voldemort isn't due for an unexpectedly-early demise in Book Seven.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Jul 16 2007, 7:56pm
Post #20 of 30
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I think I'll ask my daughter on Saturday morning to tell me all, so I won't have to live in suspense :-)
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Curious
Half-elven
Jul 16 2007, 11:14pm
Post #21 of 30
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Harry finds out about Snape's pitiful career as a student, and instead of understanding and harmony he despises him for it ...
I thought Harry was quite disturbed about his father's behavior towards the young Snape, and quite sympathetic to the owner of his potions book when he did not realize it was Snape. It is Snape the teacher he despises, and with good reason. But Snape the teenager can be quite sympathetic -- much more so than Voldemort the teenager, for example.
On the other hand I think Harry's growing understanding of Snape will be as important to the story as Frodo's understanding of Gollum. Based on Dumbledore's statements, Harry must prove that love is stronger magic than hate. Loving your friends is easy. Loving your enemies, especially when they really, truly, are your enemies, is hard. So I am starting to think that Snape really is evil, but that Harry will overcome that evil by overcoming his own hatred of Snape.
But like Gollum, I think Snape himself will still die. It's the kind of story where everyone of note gets more or less what they deserve in the end, and I can't believe Snape will get away with being a former death eater, killing Dumbledore, or all his unkindnesses to Harry. Whether he repents before he dies is another matter, but Snape must die. But Harry will not kill him. Harry will, on the other hand, kill Voldemort, who is utterly unsympathetic as a child or adult.
At least that is my current theory. Which is somewhat different from how I voted and what I said in my previous post in this thread. I really haven't a clue, of course, which is great. 
(This post was edited by Curious on Jul 16 2007, 11:17pm)
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Curious
Half-elven
Jul 16 2007, 11:19pm
Post #22 of 30
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Heck, none of those are flaws in Rowling's fantasy./
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Curious
Half-elven
Jul 16 2007, 11:23pm
Post #23 of 30
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Harry can be quite kind to the friendless.
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And I don't see Harry tormenting anyone like his father supposedly did -- although I'm still not sure I trust Snape's memory on that subject. Harry can be thoughtless, and has no use for rules, but why exactly do you call him a jerk, and how is he a worse jerk than any of the people who hate him so?
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Curious
Half-elven
Jul 16 2007, 11:28pm
Post #24 of 30
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Seriously, though. I have no sympathy for bullies. None. Nobody deserves to be bullied, no matter how pathetic they are.
Shouldn't we examine why they became bullies and whether they can redeem themselves before writing them off? Sympathizing with a bully is different from approval of bullying.
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Curious
Half-elven
Jul 16 2007, 11:32pm
Post #25 of 30
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What a horrifying thought. The worst I had to endure was an ineffective first-year teacher.
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