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SirDennisC
Half-elven
Feb 10 2011, 5:35am
Post #1 of 71
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"The Anti-Social Network"
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By helping other people look happy, Facebook is making us sad. ... Facebook is, after all, characterized by the very public curation of one's assets in the form of friends, photos, biographical data, accomplishments, pithy observations, even the books we say we like. Look, we have baked beautiful cookies. We are playing with a new puppy. We are smiling in pictures (or, if we are moody, we are artfully moody.) Blandness will not do, and with some exceptions, sad stuff doesn't make the cut, either. The site's very designthe presence of a "Like" button, without a corresponding "Hate" buttonreinforces a kind of upbeat spin doctoring. (No one will "Like" your update that the new puppy died, but they may "Like" your report that the little guy was brave up until the end.) ... Facebook is "like being in a play. You make a character," one teenager tells MIT professor Sherry Turkle in her new book on technology, Alone Together. Turkle writes about the exhaustion felt by teenagers as they constantly tweak their Facebook profiles for maximum cool. She calls this "presentation anxiety," and suggests that the site's element of constant performance makes people feel alienated from themselves. (The book's broader theory is that technology, despite its promises of social connectivity, actually makes us lonelier by preventing true intimacy.)
Read more at Slate: http://www.slate.com/id/2282620/pagenum/all/
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Kangi Ska
Half-elven
Feb 10 2011, 5:38am
Post #2 of 71
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Social alienation in a mass society.//
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Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.
At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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Arandiel
Grey Havens
Feb 10 2011, 7:14am
Post #3 of 71
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I can really see this at work...
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... not only on Facebook, but in life generally these days. Though, to be fair, my small handful of Facebook friends don't really use the site in the way described in the quote you shared. And, I haven't logged on in several weeks - there or here.
I find it curious that we spend so much time and effort communicating rather than talking, typing rather than touching - and I'm quite conscious that I am, at this very moment, making such comments on a message board, where the lines between public and private are very blurred and I have personally met only three of the people who might view this post. This amazing community called TORn cannot exist without a lot of the same kind of high-tech intervention on which Facebook depends. What difference I see between this and other online communities I've encountered is that this one somehow 'feels' more like a community - but I can't find a way to quantify that at this moment (which is, after all, midnight in Colorado). I think I'll come back to this tomorrow - today - Thursday afternoon.
Wherever you go, there you are.
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sador
Half-elven
Feb 10 2011, 10:11am
Post #4 of 71
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Very interesting. Thank you! //
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"Let me think!" - Aragorn.
The weekly discussion of The Lord of the Rings is back! Please join us in the Reading Room for Book III.
"This is a rather interesting tale that Legolas weaves. As I typed this out, I could just hear a voice, incredulous and wondering, having no real idea about what had happened and what those signs mean."
- Kethry.
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Feb 10 2011, 11:03am
Post #5 of 71
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More is not necessarily better
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I see what it does to my g'son now in those difficult teen years. Often teenager's identities are tied to their friends. Parents used to have a few hours in the evening without the influence of those distractions to try and "reach" or bond with their teens. Now, with twitter, facebook, smart phones and the like, those friendships are completely intrusive. Parents are fighting a losing battle when taking those "perks" away... they're the bad guy and the teen shuts down. Teens believe they have a "right" to have these luxuries and are technology junkies.
People can't live mentally or physically healthy lives when there's constant stimulation. Sleep is nominal. Anxiety is so high. It's ridiculous. What happens to imagination and creativity when the mind is constantly plugged into something?
 
I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.
TORn's Observations Lists
Unused Scenes
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L. Ron Halfelven
Grey Havens
Feb 10 2011, 12:09pm
Post #6 of 71
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Wake me up when one of these professors finds something that DOESN'T cause alienation./
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The thought came suddenly into Pippin's mind, as if caught direct from the urgent thought of his enemy: 'Grishnįkh knows about the Ring! He's looking for it, while Uglśk is busy: he probably wants it for himself.' Aloud he said, 'If you touch my junk I'll have you arrested.'
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Wraith Buster
Gondor
Feb 10 2011, 12:33pm
Post #7 of 71
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I'm a teen on Facebook and I think it's all about your attitude toward it. If you take it as a "I have to be cool" thing then in the end it defeats the purpose of relationship. Plus, most people don't know what relationship is about. And they think that you have to be "cool" to have friends. Frankly if someone wants to be my friend it shouldn't matter if I have 1,000 friends on Facebook or if I'm cool. If that is the reasoning behind it then they aren't real friends and I don't need them. People should like you for who you are and not for how you look. When it is all about being top dog then you will be exhausted trying to keep up because there will always be someone cooler than you. I don't mean this as "all" or "nothing". Just "most" of the time this is what it seems like to me.
Just my 2 cents.
Pedich Edhellen? Lau? Hria cuilė.
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Gimli'sBox
Gondor
Feb 10 2011, 12:43pm
Post #8 of 71
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Shallow people are going to be shallow. It doesn't matter WHERE they're at. I know someone personally who uses facebook as a tool to get info out there. She doesn't let it rule her life and just because her wall always has info on it doesn't mean she's impersonal. She will comment on other people's wall or Pm them. Facebook isn't the "evil". It's people miss using it. I'm not bias either. I'm not even on facebook. I'm not saying that it isn't "fake" but, you can fool people face to face even. "how's everything going?" "GREAT!". People have done that years before there was even a thing called "facebook". There's a thing called self control and the desire for real relationships. That's whats missing from facebook.
Btw, I agree with the like button issue. I've always wondered hy there's no dislike button! I guss that's what the "comment" buttons for, right?
Some who have read the book, or at any rate have reviewed it, have found it boring, absurd, or contemptible; and I have no cause to complain, since I have similar opinions of their works, or of the kinds of writing the evidently prefer.
(This post was edited by Gimli'sBox on Feb 10 2011, 12:45pm)
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Feb 10 2011, 2:25pm
Post #9 of 71
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I dunno, my facebook friends don't seem any happier than anyone else
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or any sadder either. They report on life as it is: struggles with health, complaints about homework, sharing silly stories. It seems like a pretty good mirror of face to face life.
As for the "like" button, I've seen people post *dislike*! when someone reports unhappy news (only minor things like fresh snow. For major things like the loss of a loved one, of course people post loving detailed replies.)
One of my friends recently posted the saddest thing I've ever seen. She said "On Tuesday I became an orphan when my dear mother died. On Wednesday I unexpectedly became a widow when my beloved Jim died." Somehow that doesn't fit in with the professor's characterization at all.
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"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
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Alassėa Eruvande
Valinor
Feb 10 2011, 2:33pm
Post #10 of 71
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The thing that gets me about Facebook,
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is when people put as their status, "spending quality time with the kids", or "spending quality time with the husband/wife."
Well, how can you be spending quality time with anyone when you are clearly ignoring them by being on Facebook?!! 
And suddenly the Tornadoes saw afar off a greenlight, as it were a cloud with a living heart of flame;
and they knew that this was no vision only, but that PJ had made a new thing: The Hobbit, the Film that Is.
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Laerasėa
Tol Eressea
Feb 10 2011, 4:12pm
Post #11 of 71
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I don't think there are many networks/forums/online communities that are overall good or bad. There are just different types, and people will use them how they want to. If a person is shallow, then they will be shallow. If a person is sad, they will be sad. It doesn't matter where they are.
TORn is a wonderful home, but we get the occasional troll. They get warned or kicked off the boards, but it just shows that it's the people here that make the place what it is, not the site itself. Same with facebook, but it's just such a huge network that you can't control what you get as much, especially if you have lots of friends. I'm friends with almost everyone from my graduating class in high school, as well as people in the grade above and below me, and many people from my college class, even the ones I don't know so well. I have no problem "friending" people I barely know (ie, my suitemate's ex-boyfriend), so long as they don't harass me, or their posts don't get ridiculously offensive.
However, I completely agree with someone else's post about having a facebook be a character in a play. I am not who I am on facebook. My facebook profile is a shadow of who I am. I post what's on my mind, but I am always very aware that I could have 500+ people reading what I write. I have cursed two times on my profile that I've had for about four years (a low number for someone my age, but I don't curse often at all in real life, either). I never say anything bad about someone else (unless it's some sort of celebrity who's gone and robbed a jewelry store on probation or something like that). I have a limit on how personal my statuses get-- if I feel tempted to talk too much about my personal life on them, then I simply take myself off facebook for a while.
I think you really just have to learn how to control your character on facebook, and not let it take over, because I think some people forget that you are not your profile, even if it looks a lot like you.
Limerick in Polka Dots
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Laerasea's Travelling TORn Journal
Mozart and Chocolate
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Laerasėa
Tol Eressea
Feb 10 2011, 4:19pm
Post #12 of 71
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I'm actually very happy with facebook for refusing to give a dislike button, because I really think that would be abused to no end. I have never seen someone write dislike to a status more serious than someone getting the flu.
I think your last paragraph really shows that facebook is too big for people to characterize with sweeping statements. While it certainly has a stereotype (ie, a profile picture depicting a bunch of college girls at a party holding beers and smiling), it's way more than that. I like your comment about a mirror; facebook is just sort of a shadowy reflection of life. The louder profiles aren't necessarily the only profiles.
Limerick in Polka Dots
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RosieLass
Valinor
Feb 10 2011, 4:40pm
Post #13 of 71
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I mean, I can see in a place like Facebook, where it would cause only hard feelings.
But on a news website, for example, where people are commenting on events and politics and stuff like that, I think people should be able to express approval or disapprobation for what others have said. Especially if what they've said is really stupid, hateful, or divisive.
It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)
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RosieLass
Valinor
Feb 10 2011, 4:41pm
Post #14 of 71
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I don't post stuff like that, because I'm sure nobody gives a flying flip about what I'm doing right now anyway.
It's different if you're posting photos or talking about an interesting event you've been to, though.
It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)
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RosieLass
Valinor
Feb 10 2011, 4:43pm
Post #15 of 71
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Facebook already decides which postings are your "Top News."
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And I discovered this morning that they've also changed the settings to decide that only certain people's posts and updates will appear on your wall.
It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)
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Laerasėa
Tol Eressea
Feb 10 2011, 4:44pm
Post #16 of 71
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I've been careful to keep my "homework" statuses more along the lines of "Just finished doing lots of hw!" or "about to go do hw!" instead of "in the middle of lots of hw/studying." I'm afraid of people calling me out on that one.
Limerick in Polka Dots
o o o o o o o o o
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Laerasėa
Tol Eressea
Feb 10 2011, 4:52pm
Post #17 of 71
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Facebook already has some different settings for groups than profiles, so maybe it would be possible for them to add a dislike button for those.
On the other hand, though, it would work both ways. I follow The Trevor Project on facebook, which already has enough trouble with trolls. It would be disheartening to have a dislike button on their posts and links for lots of people to hit for no reason other than stirring controversy. If you genuinely want to show that you disagree with someone, then you can explain why. Your idea of a stupid article may be very different from the ideas of someone trolling The Trevor Project, for example.
Limerick in Polka Dots
o o o o o o o o o
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Mozart and Chocolate
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RosieLass
Valinor
Feb 10 2011, 5:57pm
Post #18 of 71
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My preference would be to have it for comments (and trolls), and not the original post or page anyway. The Facebook "like" button for pages is really so that updates will show up on your news page, so there's not a whole lot of point for a "dislike" button. And if the page is particularly offensive, it should be reported and removed anyway.
There was a discussion on our local newspaper forum about responding to rather than "thumbinb down" comments, and some of us pointed out that when people are trolling, the last thing you need to do is engage them because it'll only encourage them to further misbehavior.
For example, the contingent that screams about "illegals!!1!" everytime a newspaper article mentions any Hispanic name, or who ride their personal hobby horses about politics or religion or the cops or what-have-you in every thread, whether it's relevant to the article or not. I just thumb 'em down and move on. There's no point in trying to discuss anything with them, because if they were open to reason, they wouldn't have posted such nonsense in the first place.
If it's a particularly active conversation, sometimes everything that needs to be said has been said many times over, so instead of me adding more clutter to the thread, I can just thumb down the comment I disagree with and thumb up the responses I like.
In any case, I think it's important to have both options. Otherwise, the idiots can post their idiocy, all the other idiots can "like" it, and then it looks like everyone agrees.
It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)
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Rosie-with-the-ribbons
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Feb 10 2011, 6:42pm
Post #19 of 71
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I can agree and disagree with the article.
I'm mostly posting the happy things in my life on Facebook. I feel people go there for fun and relaxation. So I don't feel I should bother them with the problems in my life. Ok, I can complain about having a headache or something small, but I tend to write more about the fun and happy things.
I really don't feel like I should up my friends on happy news or anything. And I think if you feel like that on Facebook, you probably also will feel like that in real life. So not blaming Facebook for those problems.
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Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea
Feb 10 2011, 6:59pm
Post #21 of 71
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Alert: Shallow. low self-esteemed people are still shallow and/or filled with low self-esteem.
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Not poking fun at you, Dennis, I'm just laughing at the fact that Facebook is looked at as this system that changes humanity when, in truth, it was always *present* in humanity, it's just a lot more obvious now and scientists are having a field day with it.
There will always be people who will be jealous or let down by others' successes. Instead of a photo album and landline phone calls to exchange the information, however, you're using a computer.
If Facebook has changed anything, it's made us aware of how dumb people are courtesy of blogs such as Failbook. It has not created sadness, low self-esteem, envy, or jealousy; those have existed for a long time. It's just easier to dwell upon them, perhaps, considering how easy it is to log onto FB and how little self control so many so-called adults seem to have. If FB is causing you some sort of negative reactions, leave.
And the last part of the article bugged me; I guess after having such a wonderful adopted little sister, I don't see why people would be devastated about lack of fertility. There are so many unwanted children in the world, and blood is nothing; I am much closer to many non-related friends than any distant blood relatives.
Cheers, all.
My LiveJournal ~ My artwork and photography
NARF since age 8, when I refused to read the Hobbit because the cover looked boring and icky.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Feb 10 2011, 7:35pm
Post #22 of 71
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On the other hand, my daughter characterizes facebook
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as "a song about me". (This is a quote from a song a friend wrote once that I wish were online so I could share it. The chorus goes "This is a song about me, about me, about me. It could be a song about you, but it's not, it's all about me.")
And for some people it sure is that. "I'm eating a hotdog now." How exciting.
I think it depends on your relationship with your friends in the first place. For me it's a lot like the Off Topic board of TORn, a place where people can share items of interest, about themselves and also the larger world. Most of the posts I read are mildly interesting, and I don't see that bragging the professor is writing about. But my daughter finds facebook tedious and mostly avoids it.
As far as the "like" button, I mostly like it becuase if someone posts something I find interesting but I don't have anything important to add to the conversation, the button allows me to give the feedback that I read and appreciated what they wrote. Kind of like TORn's "mods up" or "here, have a cookie."
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"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
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"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Feb 10 2011, 7:38pm
Post #23 of 71
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This one does feel like a community, doesn't it? I'm honored to be one of the folks who got to meet you in person :-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Feb 10 2011, 7:56pm
Post #24 of 71
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TORN had a "dislike" button for years.
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And though many of us loved it, it caused all sorts of controversy and complaining and offense in certain people. I'm referring, of course, to the modding feature on the old boards. By and large it was used well for years - but only because the "proper" use was agreed on and the people with the power exercised restraint. The time came, however, when a few people saw the feature solely as a popularity contest and howled, insisting that people should be required to state a reason for their "down" mod. We had constant wrangling over it from that time until the change of boards.
I can only imagine that Facebook would descend the path to YouTube-comment-style wrangling* faster than TORN did. Honestly, they're probably better off without it. Not having a "dislike" button at least preserves the appearance of positivity and friendship. A dislike option could remove the veneer of civility rather quickly, not least because trolls would have just as much access to it as everyone else. At least here one had to earn it. The more public and open a forum, the more opportunity the trolls, jerks and idiots have to make trouble and the less possible it is for the average person to avoid or ignore them.
But that's just my take on it. YMMV, of course.
* Lately, YT comments seem to focus more on how many people have "missed the like button" and what idiots they are than about the content of any given video. It's annoying and very boring.
Silverlode
"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you." -On Fairy Stories
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SirDennisC
Half-elven
Feb 10 2011, 7:57pm
Post #25 of 71
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is when a condition is called "human nature." I agree that not everyone responds to the seeming good fortune of others with jealousy / feelings of inadequacy. The Stanford study the article grew from, least ways in the abstract, did not refer to FB directly.
I think what they are getting at is FB takes last century's "keeping up with the Jones" to a whole new level. For people who are disposed to feelings of inadequacy, such contests usually exacerbate those feelings.
Alienation (from yourself, from others) is a side effect of constant superficial interactions. There is a link between alienation and depression. If the things we say about ourselves and read about others almost always are cast in a positive light, that can feed depression while at the same time masking it. A person would have to be depressed first though (somewhere in the article they point out it is not a matter of cause and effect). Trouble is, self denial and/or the drive to avoid stigmatization often prevent clinically depressed people to seek help and/or treatment.
Speaking of Failbook, some of those "Like Fails" are pretty darn funny.
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