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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Del Toro's Smaug
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pasi
The Shire

Feb 3 2011, 10:46am

Post #226 of 246 (6707 views)
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Yes Portugal [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for your replay, yes I lived in Lisbon.
Good day for you.
best
pasi


macfalk
Valinor


Feb 3 2011, 10:51am

Post #227 of 246 (6709 views)
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No problem: [In reply to] Can't Post

And your English is perfectly understandble, by the way. My English skills are also lacking, you know. Laugh



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Feb 3 2011, 11:27am

Post #228 of 246 (6698 views)
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*strums air guitar* Be Excellent to each other! :D // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

sample sample

I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.



TORn's Observations Lists
Unused Scenes



grammaboodawg
Immortal


Feb 3 2011, 11:36am

Post #229 of 246 (6708 views)
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I think del Toro will still be involved at some level [In reply to] Can't Post

He's still got credit for writing and his contribution up to the time he left will still be included, from what I have heard. What's to say he won't continue to contribut once the filming gets under way... as a consultant and/or tech person. There's no reason his involvment has to end just because he can't take on the mantle of director. A smattering of work here and there or consultation is certainly possible whilst still focusing on his current projects. GdT was so thrilled to be a part of this project, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he'd still be in the background.

In my eyes, it's not an all-or-nothing-at-all process. Peter's always shown creativity when it comes to his style of putting a film together, and I think GdT is cut from that same cloth. If anything can be worked out, I'm sure these 2 gents will be the dudes to do it :)

sample sample

I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.



TORn's Observations Lists
Unused Scenes



sphdle1
Gondor


Feb 3 2011, 1:13pm

Post #230 of 246 (6734 views)
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I remember they talked about CGI vs Animatronics a while back... [In reply to] Can't Post

The last I read they were leaning towards more animatronics with some CGI for Smaug. So for anyone that may know, is Smaug still going to be mostly animatronics? Is this something they would do working with WETA or possibly Jim Henson's crew? Henson did some ground breaking work on The Dark Crystal and his company is now doing The Power of the Dark Crystal sequel...just curious if they would be involved, if Smaug is some form of animatronics?


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Feb 3 2011, 4:18pm

Post #231 of 246 (6666 views)
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Thank you! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Feb 3 2011, 4:21pm

Post #232 of 246 (6713 views)
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Yes please [In reply to] Can't Post

Something like that would be awesome, and would help to remind us (well, some of us) again how brilliant team we're talking about. Someone once said that when she saw the LotR logo for the first time her mind was at peace, because obviously people with the sense of style to come up with that logo would do good job with the rest too.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Feb 3 2011, 4:26pm

Post #233 of 246 (6712 views)
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Err, not quite [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not sure where you got that idea, but Guillermo's description certainly doesn't sound anything like it. His Smaug was an unusually long, serpentine creature; it sounds like the wings would be attached to the hind legs, which would be perhaps half of the way down his body certainly nowhere near the buttocks! It does sound bad when you describe 'the rest of him flopping out in front', but I doubt that's how it would look we have no idea what the wings themselves would look like, except that they would be 'articulated on the dorsal side'. Perhaps the leading edge of the wings would have extended forward to the front of Smaug's body? That would provide adequate support to his entire mass, and he would look quite balanced if his tail was long enough especially when taking the small foreclaws into account.

Also, I just discovered that a dinosaur called the Sharovipteryx actually had wings on its hind legs which extended towards its front, a bit like the design I'm describing. The pictures on the Wikipedia page might give you an idea as to what Smaug could look like...


Quote
To Flagg: A dragon with his wings essentially springing out of his behind?/? Or attatched to his tail with the rest of him just sort of flopping out in front? That. . . that is a bridge too far for me. Not as bad as what Spendhle said about his fears of a venus flytrap mouth. . . though God knows I hope we don't see anything like that either!




Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Feb 3 2011, 6:37pm

Post #234 of 246 (6709 views)
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May 10th, 2008 by MrCere The Dragon Solution: GDT shares his thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

Here!

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket
Smaug Small


Bran
Lorien


Feb 3 2011, 6:50pm

Post #235 of 246 (6661 views)
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For me that is the crux of this thread [In reply to] Can't Post

Flag,

I'd never seen that before, it really is the oddest thing. I had no idea such things ever existed. Thanks for that.

The problem for me, personally, is, as amazing, unusual and unique looking that animal is, it just doesn't fit my imagination of what Smaug was like.

Like all these discussions, it is quite difficult. It's almost as if it's a lot easier to say 'I don't like that idea' than to try and think of how it should look. That's why I'm not an artist, I imagine.

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi


Hellmistress
Lorien


Feb 3 2011, 6:54pm

Post #236 of 246 (6691 views)
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I would suspect ... [In reply to] Can't Post

... that it would be quite difficult doing a completely animatronic dragon. They could go for a combi-platter - prosthetic costume, with animatronic adaptations and a CG tweak in places, but I think it might be a tough one to work out. They could possibly do CG for most shots with animatronic head etc. for close-ups. Most FX shops have animatronics guys or they will hire them in as freelance. Two of the best are Mark Setrakian and Chris Clarke. Having seen some excellent animatronics 'up close and personal,' as it were, that might work. I could be wrong, but I think they may go for complete CG with animatronic close-ups. I suppose until post is under way we won't know.

HM


In Reply To
The last I read they were leaning towards more animatronics with some CGI for Smaug. So for anyone that may know, is Smaug still going to be mostly animatronics? Is this something they would do working with WETA or possibly Jim Henson's crew? Henson did some ground breaking work on The Dark Crystal and his company is now doing The Power of the Dark Crystal sequel...just curious if they would be involved, if Smaug is some form of animatronics?



SirDennisC
Half-elven


Feb 3 2011, 7:03pm

Post #237 of 246 (6637 views)
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Setrakian eh? [In reply to] Can't Post

wouldn't happen to be related to Abraham would he?Wink


sphdle1
Gondor


Feb 3 2011, 7:56pm

Post #238 of 246 (6646 views)
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Yeah we'll just have to wait and see [In reply to] Can't Post

I just recall the last I read from GDT when he posted on ToRN was how strongly he felt about not using CGI except to enhance the animatronics...!?


Hellmistress
Lorien


Feb 3 2011, 8:44pm

Post #239 of 246 (6619 views)
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Of course ... [In reply to] Can't Post

... but I think it is the other way around. Wink

HM


In Reply To
wouldn't happen to be related to Abraham would he?Wink



Mark Sommer
Rivendell


Feb 4 2011, 12:19am

Post #240 of 246 (6638 views)
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That is too cool [In reply to] Can't Post

If that's anything like what del Toro had in mind, I'm all for it.

Mark Sommer
Twitter ID: Inklingblogger


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Feb 4 2011, 4:07am

Post #241 of 246 (6631 views)
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Seconded with hopes that the motion carries. [In reply to] Can't Post

You are far from alone in this. I have said before, and stand by this, the massive werewolf monster from that old NeverEnding Story film was far closer in looks to what I think a warg would be than the hyena of the TTT and ROTK films.

In Reply To
I, for one, would like to see REAL wargs this time.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Feb 4 2011, 4:10am

Post #242 of 246 (6598 views)
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I don't know [In reply to] Can't Post

I feel like the overall feel of the first half of Fellowship Up TO Moria would be the right tone and colour for The Hobbit. By Moria, and Certainly once we are out of Lorien and into TTT, the colour seems to drain, the world becomes less vivid and more grim. Lothlorien is, in some ways, the last really enchanted feeling place we see until the the coronation of Aragorn. I think the general feel and look of Fellowship, but with a better representation of Gandalf's magic, as we see it in the books, is the ideal marker.

In Reply To
While I certainly want the Hobbit to follow the overall feel of LOTR I do think theres a need to a certain degree of change in the design work in order to match the story, more fanastical ala alot of what we saw in Moria rather than the more grounded design of the rest of the films.

It could well be that Del Toro working on the films then moving on was actually the perfect situation, bring some fresh ideas into the mix but then have Jackson use them to create a film that fits in with his LOTR.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Feb 4 2011, 4:13am

Post #243 of 246 (6596 views)
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I respect your concerns, Bran. [In reply to] Can't Post

I honestly do. But I have several pressing worries about what might happen with The Hobbit, and how Peter Et Al might Approach it, now including these strange rumors of the look of Smaug The Magnificent. . . antlers on Thorin's helm just don't rate on my list of serious concerns at present. Unsure

In Reply To
Maybe I'm old fashioned, and unimaginative, but more of the same, more 'boring old Tolkien' is fine by me. I'm more than happy with what Tolkien gives us.

As to the point that 'Tolkien doesn't tell us Thorin didn't have a thorned helmet', well, yes, true, but that is a very, very dangerous argument. Tolkien doesn't tell us that Thorin didn't have wings, either, nor Bilbo two heads. He neglects to tell us about the fabulous Mrs Beorn, who could change into a hydra when orcs approached, or the suicide bomber orcs, what a great thing they are!

OK, I'm being ridiculous, but it just serves to demonstrate that just because JRRT didn't say something wasn't present, it doesn't give folk the right to go and make yup anything they feel audiences might like, just to sell more film tickets.

There is a line which should not be crossed. For some of us, that line is very, very close to what we are told by JRRT.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


moreorless
Gondor

Feb 4 2011, 6:48am

Post #244 of 246 (6612 views)
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I was thinking more in terms of the design of the "badies" [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I feel like the overall feel of the first half of Fellowship Up TO Moria would be the right tone and colour for The Hobbit. By Moria, and Certainly once we are out of Lorien and into TTT, the colour seems to drain, the world becomes less vivid and more grim. Lothlorien is, in some ways, the last really enchanted feeling place we see until the the coronation of Aragorn. I think the general feel and look of Fellowship, but with a better representation of Gandalf's magic, as we see it in the books, is the ideal marker.

In Reply To
While I certainly want the Hobbit to follow the overall feel of LOTR I do think theres a need to a certain degree of change in the design work in order to match the story, more fanastical ala alot of what we saw in Moria rather than the more grounded design of the rest of the films.

It could well be that Del Toro working on the films then moving on was actually the perfect situation, bring some fresh ideas into the mix but then have Jackson use them to create a film that fits in with his LOTR.




I agree the first half of FOTR has a more Hobbit like atmosphere but in terms of the bad guys Moria had a more fantastical edge to it compaired to the more down to earn "militerised" enemies we saw afterwards such as the Uruk Hai.

The Moria orcs for example are the kind of orcs/goblins I'd like to see featured in the Hobbit.


Bran
Lorien


Feb 4 2011, 10:03am

Post #245 of 246 (6884 views)
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Perhaps I didn't make myself clear AO [In reply to] Can't Post

It's not the horns on the helmet per se, that concern me, it's what they MIGHT say about the creative processes going into the films.

Personally, I don't like that idea, I think they'd look silly, but it's no huge concern, as you say. If the thought processes that arrived at that idea are extrapolated however, then I do have huge concerns.

Please note, again, I say 'MIGHT', and I fully accept the age of the article, the need for left field thinking, and the fact that there are a huge team of designers who will keep the more outrageous ideas in check.

We're just talking about possibilities here, not cast iron certainties.

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 19 2012, 7:39pm

Post #246 of 246 (6143 views)
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Trees that match Tolkien's drawings is a "bizzarre idea?" [In reply to] Can't Post

What? I don't understand that.

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