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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
LOTR Failures and problem choices which Peter should not repeat in The Hobbit
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven

Jan 17 2011, 7:11am

Post #1 of 141 (1877 views)
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LOTR Failures and problem choices which Peter should not repeat in The Hobbit Can't Post

I am, without a doubt, a huge supporter and fan of The Lord of The Rings films. I saw the films in theatres close to a dozen times each, and we won't talk about how often I have watched the DVDs, especially EE Fellowship (though I never watch EE ROTK because of a certain unmentionable scene involving an incarnate Maia and the wraith of a human king). All that said, I felt that there were a few places in the films where Peter made choices or decisions that were too problematic to ignore. They were not many. But those which bothered me most I shall list herein, ordering them from major to minor. Understand that this will not cover every single flaw in the films, only the ones I found most glaring. If you wish to add concerns over things you felt to be missteps in LOTR that you do not wish to see take place in The Hobbit, freely voice them. Again, I feel a deep gratitude to Peter for the effort he put into making the films, and for the overall good job that he did with them. . . but that does not mean they were free from flaw, and we should not be unwilling to voice our problems with the flaws that were present.

My major list is as follows, with some of the more significant issues being explained further, farther down.

1) Gandalf's magic: To be blunt, it was shortchanged and in shortchanging it, Gandalf himself was also diminished. I will discuss it further later in this post.

2) The significance of the connection between Sauron's Ring and The Elf Rings and its relation to the Elves increasing exodus from Middle-Earth is never explained: This is an especially major problem which effects the entire story. The films continually stress that the Elves are departing, without EVER explaining why. Yet both the Fellowship text AND the old Bakshi/Peter Beagle animated version have the crux of the issue summed up in a single paragraph by Galadriel. To Quote the animated film "If you fail, then nothing can stand against Him (Sauron) and we are defenseless. Yet if you succed. If The One Ring is destroyed, all we have built with The Three will fail. Time will come here, and Lothlorien will fade. You are The Footstep of Doom to us Frodo." The significance of this is immense. Without it the Elves increasing departure is extremely difficult to explain, as is the bitter sweet nature of the notion of The Rings destruction for them. I certainly hope that this situation is much more plainly explained in The Hobbit, as The White Council and its discussion of The Rings of Power provides the perfect opportunity for this needed explication.

3) The scandalous absence of Glorfindel This one is self explanatory. Hate that Glorfindel was so badly abused and omitted when so many less relevant characters at least got speaking cameos. He is part of The White Council, give him a moment for God's sake. . . and don't Kill him like they did poor Haldir, for the love of Heaven!

4) There should be a greater representation of Harfoots in The Shire: Wink Yes, you know EXACTLY what I mean. And don't trouble me with semantics and technicalities. There are lots of options in choosing extras to play Harfoots. Lots of options. That is all I will say about that, for now. Lol.

Now, about Gandalf's magic, my feelings are as follows. . .


I cringed when I read the recent interview with Ian Mckellen, in which the interviewer asked our beloved actor, "What exactly can Gandalf do other than use his staff as a flashlight? There it was. The way far too many viewers of The LOTR trilogy came away viewing The Great Wizard Gandalf The Gray. And that would be fine, if his displays of magic in the books were limited to using his wand as an illuminator. But that ISN'T the limit of his magical displays in the book. Aside from lifting curses, and raising spirits, and opening doors, yes, dammit, sometimes he conjures up a flesh searing, hair singing, eye opening feats of lightning and blue coloured flame. For the sake, evidently, of Peter's personal tastes, he was cheated of this in the LOTR series. Even as Arwen managed not only to steal both Glorfindel's scene and his horse, but also to aqcuire and recieve full credit for a river related enchantment which was actually the work of Elrond and Gandalf, even as Saruman astonished by conjuring a storm several hundred miles long and potent enough to shake a mountaintop, Gandalf had three of his four most impressive feats of wizardry in Fellowship ( his explosive magical confrontation against the Wargs in the passes of Cahradras, his lightning and flame inducing battle against The Nine Nazgul Lords atop Amon Sul, and his initial contest of wizardry and wills with The Balrog [the omission of with not only detracted from Gandalf, but also diminished The Balrog, leaving the demon looking less diabolically sorcerous and more brutishly bestial in ability] which also ended in an explosion] taken away from him, leaving him seeming notably less capable as a force of wizardry than he actually was. This is before even mentioning the infringements upon the power of Gandalf The White. Why should there be concern of him being stabbed by an orc, when he specifically tells Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli, "No blame to you, no harm done to me. Indeed, none of you has any weapon that could hurt me." And this is with Aragorn in possession of Anduril!! I won't even comment on that foul foolishnes which didn't happen between Gandalf and The Witch-King in EE ROTK. Because it never happened! I say, I say it NEVER happened! My blood pressure is skyrockeing just thinking about that bit of heresey. In order to avoid a stroke, I am going to veer away from that particular issue.

In The Hobbit, Peter needs to give Gandalf his proper dues as a great Wizard. He needs to maintain Gandalf's powers in keeping with the way Tolkien represents him in the books. That means, amongst other things, us seeing some of the fire enchantments for which Gandalf, in his incarnation as The Gray, is famed. And he is famed for them. Recall his words to The Fellowship when he conjures a spout of Blue-green flame to light their campfire in the midst of the mountain snow storm. "If there are any to see, I at least am revealed. I have written 'Gandalf is Here' in words that all can read from Rivendell to the mouths of Anduin."

Despite some arguments to the contrary, it would also not be in the least inconsistent from Fellowship for Gandalf to display more formidable wizardry. Fortunately enough, the only times in The Fellowship films where there was really opportunity and need for him to display his powers in a confrontational way (outside of his decent but could have been more impressive conflict with Saruman) were in The Mines of Moria, and since in the films The Wise are already aware of the presence of one of Melkor's ancient Demon Lieutenants within the halls of Khazad-Dum, it is easy and reasonable to assume that Gandalf witheld from wasting his powers on orcs and trolls, in anticipation of a potential battle with that mighty and sorcerous evill Power.

I understand Peter's desire not to have the magic in the films come across as cheap or "cheesy". Yet there is a wide, vast place of happy medium between "cheesy" and underwhelming; between "Michael Bay style" over the top, constant explosions and the type of magical acts which you have to squint to see, could miss if you blink, and which leave unschooled viewers unfairly and severely discrediting the magic user responsible. An excellent example was Dumbledore's firestorm in the sixth Harry Potter film. The primary word with which my friends and I described it was, simply, Biblical. Gandalf should not perform a blinding magical feat every five minutes. They should not be so ubiquitous and nuclear that we begin to confuse him with Manwe and start to wonder why he would even be worried about such matters as Sauron and his little Ring. HOWEVER, there should certainly be instances, as with the books, when Gandalf does reveal something of his hidden power and unleash his magical might. And, as with Dubmledore's Moses moment, and Arwen's also Moses moment, and Saruman's great storm, when those instances occur, viewers should find them reasonably astounding, even awesome. When he darkens the chamber of The Goblin King and sends the central fire up to the ceiling in a pillar of blue fire and glowing smoke and piecring sparks, audiences should be heard to exclaim, "Well that was an eye opener, and no mistake!" Not, "what . . did something happen. Something seems to be different. I think the fire might have changed colour or gotten brighter or something. . . did that old fella try to cast a spell or something?"

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


sador
Half-elven


Jan 17 2011, 7:54am

Post #2 of 141 (966 views)
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Here we go again... [In reply to] Can't Post

We've argued you concerns back and forth a couple of years ago. It seems that I failed to convince you. Wink

There are a lot of new faces on the boards now - both newbies and delurkers. I wonder what they think?

Thank you for raising these questions again!

"Let me think!" - Aragorn.

The weekly discussion of The Lord of the Rings is back! Please join us in the Reading Room for Book III.

"This chapter reads like a detective story. How successful is the mystery for first-time readers? What compensations does it offer for returning readers who know how the questions will be resolved?"
- N.E. Brigand.



lurtz2010
Rohan

Jan 17 2011, 8:04am

Post #3 of 141 (943 views)
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What's this anger about a maia and a human king? [In reply to] Can't Post

The only magic that Gandalf does in TH (excluding Dol Guldur) is burn 100 goblins at once and shoot colourful firey pinecones at the wargs isn't it? From what I remember anyway.
As for Glorfindel I don't think it would've been that necessary for him to be in FOTR since they were expanding Arwen's character. He was just another elf who happened to help Frodo then we never saw him again... so introducing Arwen where they did was better on film IMO. If he's not in the white council in TH I wouldn't care but obviously some people would.
Are Harfoots the black hobbits? If so then I doubt there'll be any since that woman got rejected a hobbit role for having dark skin.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 17 2011, 8:11am

Post #4 of 141 (914 views)
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I think you are going to be disappointed in the Hobbit movies [In reply to] Can't Post

Mainly because the story is about Bilbo Baggins.

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New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

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Milknut
Rohan

Jan 17 2011, 8:24am

Post #5 of 141 (841 views)
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Touche [In reply to] Can't Post

Well played. I'd almost forgotten in my outrage.
Although OP has some great points. It doesn't ruin EE ROTK for me by any stretch of the imagination (there are far larger issues than that, so if I don't condemn the movies for them, I don't for that scene), but more loyalty to the source will invariably produce a deeper film. I also think that the point about why the elves are leaving wouldn't be that hard to slip in, and it would clear things up very well.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 17 2011, 9:43am

Post #6 of 141 (853 views)
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I think you are missing something about the Hobbit. [In reply to] Can't Post

It is not a story about Gandalf (though Gandalf is an important support character). It is a magic story but not a story about magic. It is a story about a Hobbit named Bilbo Baggins who discovers that he has more courage than he hag ever imagined. It amazes me that I just read your entire post on the Hobbit movie board and I don't think you mentioned Bilbo once (If you did I missed it but it is late and my eyes are tired.) It concerns me that you might be missing the point of Tolkien's book.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

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macfalk
Valinor


Jan 17 2011, 11:54am

Post #7 of 141 (801 views)
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The problem with Glorfindel [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the problem with the character Glorfindel is that he vanishes from the story after Rivendell. I don't think it's absurd that PJ did what he did.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


nobofthepony
Lorien


Jan 17 2011, 12:15pm

Post #8 of 141 (801 views)
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no... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think he also conjures a blue flame of some kind to help Bilbo and the dwarves escape from the great goblin. That could be an amazing scene...


Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jan 17 2011, 1:08pm

Post #9 of 141 (792 views)
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Dawn take you all, and be stone to you! [In reply to] Can't Post

On the subject of magic, I thought that this moment would be a good time to bump up Gandalf's game by conjuring a vail of dark clouds to hide the sunrise when he first discovers the trolls, then do something cool to reveal the sun in an instant by say...shooting up a flare from his staff and having it burn up the clouds like they were made of some kind of flammable gas fume thus revealing the bright sun. Kind of something along the lines of when Dumbledore and Faux incinerate but on a much larger scale. I know it doesn't say he uses magic at that point, but how else could you make the sun just appear?(on film) A sunrise is just not that fast.

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(This post was edited by Pipe Dream on Jan 17 2011, 1:15pm)


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jan 17 2011, 1:55pm

Post #10 of 141 (769 views)
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Remember Helm's Deep [In reply to] Can't Post

At the end of the battle of Helm's Deep, when Gandalf and Eomer came to the rescue, the sun 'just appeared.' And, it was pretty spectacular, IMHO. WinkSmile


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makonix
The Shire

Jan 17 2011, 2:11pm

Post #11 of 141 (734 views)
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It is just a movie [In reply to] Can't Post

We cannot expect word by word movie based on the books. It is easy to complain from aside, but to actually make a fantasy epic movie that will appeal to wide range of cinema audience is quite an achievement.

PJ did something that I honestly believed is almost impossible. We can't even agree on the facts presented by Tolkien in the books, I hardly expect there will be ever a movie that will please every Tolkien fan, since we all interpret the things differently.

What I did like about the movies was the emphasis on the details and the atmosphere, and making all characters believable, earthy and not so distant, just like in the books.

I don't care if there are more or less flashy magic in the movies. But I do care if the characters in the movie are properly developed and believable, and not just some fancy costumes with no deep story behind it.

Glorfindel has a rather big story behind it, and without telling his past and just showing him briefly it will not do justice to him, and it won't work for the movies.

And the biggest power that Gandalf possesses is the power to guide and bring hope in peoples hearts, not just some CGI magic effects, and I think they did quite well that in the movies

I agree that the elves were not properly represented in the movies, and I hope they will do a better justice in the Hobbit.


squire
Valinor


Jan 17 2011, 2:24pm

Post #12 of 141 (699 views)
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Are you fixing The Hobbit, or LotR? [In reply to] Can't Post

It doesn't seem like you are looking for analogous situations in The Hobbit where director Jackson can avoid repeating some of his poorer (from your point of view) adaptation choices from The Lord of the Rings. It seems more like you want him to add things to The Hobbit in hope that they will somehow improve the LotR trilogy for your own (and others') future viewing. The problem with that approach is that no matter what occurs in The Hobbit films, the LotR trilogy will still be missing the things you want.

For instance, your number 2. In The Hobbit, for better or worse, the Elvish Rings play no role and the Elves are not leaving Middle-earth. Adding explanations about these things in a film where they have no part in the story, so that viewers will remember them when watching a later film, is not good enough and can even be harmful to the film, i.e., Too Much Information. As any screenwriter would say, you can certainly lay down foreshadowing background information in a prequel, but you have to be sure to refer to it again when it is actually needed in the later film or films - you can't assume viewers will carry apparently irrelevant information with them across films. But since there is no reference to these things being connected in New Line's LotR films, and never will be unless the films are heavily re-edited, adding them to The Hobbit makes no sense from a filmmaking point of view. And filmmaking, whether or not the result is an utterly detail-perfect adaptation of Tolkien's vast legendarium, is always going to be Jackson's primary approach.

In fact, adding elements to The Hobbit that were "left out" of The Lord of the Rings (whether by Tolkien, or Jackson) can even have the effect of diminishing the later three films. A busier, more diverse Shire; a more powerfully magical Gandalf; a super-powerful White Council that can defeat Sauron - all are things that don't exist in the current film trilogy. Their absence, when noticed after The Hobbit's release, will be obvious and inexplicable to casual viewers of LotR.

Making LotR a less effective film epic than it currently is? Probably not the point of the current Hobbit project.



squire online:
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Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jan 17 2011, 2:28pm

Post #13 of 141 (714 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
At the end of the battle of Helm's Deep, when Gandalf and Eomer came to the rescue, the sun 'just appeared.' And, it was pretty spectacular, IMHO. WinkSmile



You've got me there, but it was already daylight outside then and the sun just crested over the mountain. It was my impression it went from dark (night) to dawn in an instant in "The Hobbit". If the trolls would have seen a hint of light, I believe they would have double-timed it to the cave, or is that just me? Blush I guess dawn comes early and super fast? (the speed of light is approximately 186,282 miles per second)

The night's gettin' on, and dawn comes early. Let's get on with it!” “Dawn take you all, and be stone to you!” said a voice that sounded like William's. But it wasn't. For just at that moment the light came over the hill, and there was a mighty twitter in the branches. William never spoke for he stood turned to stone as he stooped; and Bert and Tom were stuck like rocks as they looked at him.



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Vellamo
Rivendell


Jan 17 2011, 4:02pm

Post #14 of 141 (745 views)
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Long time lurker responds [In reply to] Can't Post

I know this is no viva voce vote, but IMO replacing Glorfindel with Arwen was perhaps the smartest single alteration they made and for all the reasons addressed by PJ himself as well as the memebers of TORn during the last decade or so.

I rest my case.


Darkstone
Immortal


Jan 17 2011, 5:02pm

Post #15 of 141 (650 views)
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QFT!! [In reply to] Can't Post

... the story is about Bilbo Baggins.

Yes! This is something I dearly hope Jackson won't ever forget!

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sphdle1
Gondor


Jan 17 2011, 5:14pm

Post #16 of 141 (661 views)
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It is interesting that you mention the point about Gandalf's magic... [In reply to] Can't Post

I've never read the LOTR books, nor the Harry Potter books, but from just watching the movies, the one and only thing I've ever complained about with LOTR that could have been improved was Gandalf's magical abilities. I assumed it was because that's how it was in the books, but it sounds like he can do more than just be a human flashlight and open doors..!? I always thought they could have made him do a few more powerfull magic spells, and make him look more like a powerful wizard, and not just a wise wizard.

After having watched Dumbledore in the 5th movie near the end when he goes head to head with Voldemort, I was totally blown away, and came away from the theatre thinking, "that was the ultimate wizarding duel and most powerful magical display, that I had always hoped to see in a movie". And then again in the sixth he did something great. And I agree, it wouldn't be good to have that kind of magic in every second scene, but at the right pivotal moments, it can be the most awesome cinematic magic imaginable.

So I've thought for several years now that Dumbledore could take down Gandalf with his eyes closed, because he has displayed on a few occasions the magnitude of his magical abilities, but it sounds like my disappointment with Gandalf in the movies, was actually part of the books!? ... and that in the book, Gandalf has done really powerful magic that we just didn't get to see on the screen. It is also interesting what you mentioned about his fight with the Balrog...I agree that is did take away from the Balrog as being an all powerful being...watching the movies, I just thought Gandalf defeated him with his sword.

Though it would have to be something really spectacular, I hope they have Gandalf do some really powerful magic in the Hobbit that is equal or greater to that of Dumbledore ... even if they have to stray from the book and make it something greater than what was originally written...just to make up for what he was robbed of in LOTR. Even young Harry Potter himself has displayed magic far greater than Gandalf has ... it actually choked me up because I was so blown away by it the first time I saw it watching it near the end of the 3rd movie. If Gandalf is as powerful or more powerful than Harry Potter, or even Dumbledore, than Jackson seriously needs to show this on the screen, because right now from what I've seen, if Gandalf & Dumbledore had a duel, it would be like having a kitten fighting a tiger..imho I think Jackson needs to give Gandalf his due and then some. Since the films will be in 3D, he has the potential to do something more powerful and never seen before where Gandalf's magic goes beyond the screen, and comes out at ya as a display of its power.


Allanon
The Shire

Jan 17 2011, 5:31pm

Post #17 of 141 (646 views)
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Book to film adaptations [In reply to] Can't Post

I think you need to understand how difficult it is to adapt a book into a film, especially one as detailed as TLOTR, which will appeal to a large audience. As PJ said in interviews on the Extended Edition DVDs, you have to stick with the key plot points and leave the rest out.

The main focus of the film was the one ring. If they had gone into further detail about the other rings, it would have detracted from the one ring and become confusing for those not familiar with the books.

With such a large ensemble cast of characters, Glorfindel was not needed. He was also replaced in the Ralph Bakshi animation (by Legolas).

The Balrog scene is fine as it is (the budget only allows for so much).


Darkstone
Immortal


Jan 17 2011, 5:36pm

Post #18 of 141 (678 views)
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OMG! Glorfindel IS in The Hobbit! [In reply to] Can't Post

It's been right in front of our eyes all along!


It's the same way both Glorfindel and Gildor Inglorion were changed in the stage musical!


Itaril is Glorfindel!!

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Darkstone
Immortal


Jan 17 2011, 5:40pm

Post #19 of 141 (638 views)
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Exactly! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
With such a large ensemble cast of characters, Glorfindel was not needed. He was also replaced in the Ralph Bakshi animation (by Legolas).


In any theatrical film Glorfindel is going to be replaced by somebody who's going to stick around.

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"It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man pierced with many black-feathered arrows, must be in want of a funeral."


macfalk
Valinor


Jan 17 2011, 6:22pm

Post #20 of 141 (600 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

Gandalf's magic is different. It's an abstract form of magic rather than the magic of for instance the characters in the Harry Potter-universe. And he has the wits.

Don't forget the Balrog scene with the forcefield bubble, and the lighting ray he sent on the Balrog in the movies, if you are looking for that sort of magic.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jan 17 2011, 6:22pm

Post #21 of 141 (611 views)
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It needn't be that way [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
A busier, more diverse Shire; a more powerfully magical Gandalf; a super-powerful White Council that can defeat Sauron - all are things that don't exist in the current film trilogy.

I don't think that the White Council will be shown to outright defeat Sauron through a contest of sheer force. I think it's much more likely that he will retreat instead – perhaps faking his own defeat, which would fit well with Saruman's statement that 'he cannot yet take physical form'
in The Fellowship of the Ring. Sauron may even kill one or more members of the Council in the battle preceding his flight. Taking into account the fact that the gathering darkness in Dol Guldur is nowhere near Sauron's LotR-era potency, I don't expect that the decisions made by Jackson and co will overpower the White Council as much as you suggest.



Elladan
Rivendell

Jan 17 2011, 7:18pm

Post #22 of 141 (605 views)
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Gandalf has his abilities very much restricted. [In reply to] Can't Post

The Istarii were sent to middle earth as advisors, and planners, thier ultimate job was to see the defeat of Sauron, but this had to be done by the people of middle earth. The 5 wizards each had thier part to play, Gandalf was advisor to the west, marshalling thier forces for direct battle, Radagast was to protect and no doubt utilise the flora and fauna, of middle earth, Saruman seems to have been sent to co-ordinate the other wizards and perhaps act as council to the elves, whilst the blue wizards appear to have purpose with the enslaved peoples of the east, perhaps to instigate rebelion against Saurons rule, or simply prevent them from bringing thier full force against the men of the west. Ultimately it would seem that only Gandalf succeded in his goals, though all bar Saruman seem to have been partially succesful in thier aims.

Through out The Lord of the Rings books it is implied that flashy magic, is very noticeable, and even in the films it is suggested that they need to travel in secret, so Gandalf would have to keep a lid on his abilities, for fear of giving away thier position to the enemy. This is less of a concern in the first part of their journey as they are still far from the enemy, so pounding on the wring wraiths isnt really an issue. Like wise when Gandalf is in Minas Tirith in the Return of the King, Sauron is fully aware of his where abouts so he can feel free to get a little flashy. Due to the less important nature of the quest, it is concievable that Gandalf might get a little more gung ho with his abilities if his companions are at risk.

Ultimately however the Istari are forbidden from using thier full powers, this is probably due to the fact that the last time, the Valar and Maia threw down thier full force they destroyed most of a continent. There is also the possibility that the Istarii are actally restrained by thier physical form, it is never made clear weather thier powers are physically off limits or just banned.

If this is taken into account, then Gandalf should be free to rain fire down on his foes, but not launch a full scale wizard battle against Saurons forces. We have to consider the aims of the white council at the time, if they wished to just drive Sauron out of Dol Guldur then only a minimal force would be required, but if they felt they had the force to end it then and there, a strong army of elves would be required to strike the decisive blow.


Bran
Lorien


Jan 17 2011, 7:37pm

Post #23 of 141 (579 views)
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Gandalf was referred to as [In reply to] Can't Post

'The Kindler', sent to kindle men's hearts. In that respect, he was very powerful indeed.

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jan 17 2011, 7:44pm

Post #24 of 141 (566 views)
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Why does a wizard's strength [In reply to] Can't Post

have to be flashy?

One reason why I love the character of Gandalf is that he isn't obviously a creature of magic. Yet his allies have great respect him for him and his enemies consider dangerous, which shows there is much more to him than we the readers get to know. But also, he is fallible - both in body and in his decisions. Having a wizard on your side doesn't guarantee that you'll achieve your goal, which makes for a more interesting story (and doesn't rob the evil creatures of their danger to anyone who stumbles across their path).

Later stories with wizard characters often have them *exhibiting* their skills through visual displays of strength, and I believe we have become accustomed equating 'strong wizard' with 'bolts of lightning'. But there are many kinds of strength in this world, and Tolkien enjoys underplaying those strengths until they come through at the very last moment.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


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sphdle1
Gondor


Jan 17 2011, 7:49pm

Post #25 of 141 (598 views)
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I didn't forget the forcefield bubble, etc. [In reply to] Can't Post

But that to me only equates to a small to medium size petronus charm/shield spell in HP & an Exspelliarmus.

Dumbledore also showed the wits and wizdom, as well as that powerful magic that left me windless for a few seconds.

This thread just reminded me of how I remembered being disappointed in Gandalf's magic level in general throughout the 3 films, especially in the fighting scenes. They gave a taste of his magic with the Balrog, and then it's like his fair dust ran dry, and all he could do was do a lumus maxima spell and a few minor ones after that. I think they have a golden opportunity with TH to redeem him and show what he can do.


(This post was edited by sphdle1 on Jan 17 2011, 7:51pm)

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