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Flagg
Tol Eressea
Jan 8 2011, 10:08pm
Post #301 of 379
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Well they were hardly going to say something like
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'We filmed the whole sequence, then realised it looked silly so we decided to cut it.' Why would they, when they can give a reason that makes them sound concerned about staying close to the book? I think this is a bit like that time they fired Stuart Townsend 'because he was too young'. These explanations shouldn't always be taken at face value.
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Flagg
Tol Eressea
Jan 8 2011, 10:31pm
Post #303 of 379
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but I think if the scene they filmed with Aragorn and Sauron had turned out really fantastic, then they would have included it in spite of its differences from the books. Faithfulness to Tolkien was probably a factor in the decision, but I don't think it was the only one.
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Junesong
Rohan
Jan 8 2011, 11:34pm
Post #304 of 379
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That they were trying to make the best movie they could. And there are some excellent and integral parts of Tolkien's books that just don't work as well in a movie. The scouring of the shire is a great example of this. It's one of the most potent chapters in the book, to have Frodo come back from the cracks of doom to find the same evil has come even to the shire. But it would kill the movie. Especially a movie that necessitates a lot of endings as it is - lots of plot to tie up etc, to have the Scouring left in would have been very anticlimactic. In so many situations any attempt to transfer Tolkien to the screen must be purchased with some amount of unfaithfulness to the text. It's usually only the geography, and the "iconic moments" that can remain exactly as Tolkien described. And even then everyone's imaginations work differently. I'm not too worried. Jackson and co seem to try and be as faithful to Tolkien as possible while keeping priority number one making the best movie possible. That compromise worked well enough for me for the trilogy.
"Tim... Canterbury... Canterbury Tales... Chaucer... Shakespeare."
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macfalk
Valinor
Jan 9 2011, 12:31am
Post #305 of 379
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The only way Scouring of the Shire could have worked: if LOTR would have been made as a TV-series with 1 hour long episodes, so it could have an episode of it's own.
The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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nobofthepony
Lorien
Jan 9 2011, 12:51am
Post #306 of 379
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Reading your post I realize that Jackson's LOTR is the one thing in this world that I am a complete fanboy about. At the time though, I remembered cursing him for not leaving in Saruman's death and the mouth of Sauron...but looking back, I wouldn't change the films at all. I would LOVE to see another director take on Tolkien in the future but I can't say I'm disappointed he's doing the Hobbit. Having Frodo at the beginning of the film doesn't bother me personally...it would be great to see GDT take on Bereliand but I doubt the Tolkien estate would allow it...
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Kangi Ska
Half-elven
Jan 9 2011, 1:25am
Post #307 of 379
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only visiting the Gaffer at #3 Bagshot Row at the end of Return of he King. They lived up on the hill in Bag End.
Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good. At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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SirDennisC
Half-elven
Jan 9 2011, 1:34am
Post #308 of 379
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Oh, well, welcome to TORn then Bran
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as for keeping things in order, near the top right of your screen you will see a button that either says "View Flat Mode" or "View Threaded." Click on it if it says "View Threaded" and the thread will change to a branch-like set up. In Threaded mode, though you can only see the content of one post at a time, you can see the direction the main thread (conversation) and side discussions are going. It is also easier to target your replies so they are more likely to be read by the member whose post you are commenting on. In short, Flat Mode sorts the conversation by date and time while Threaded sorts posts into linear conversations and it's tangents (aka asides, side discussions, sub-threads) such as this one In both Threaded and Flat Mode if you are not sure who is responding to whom you can trace a comment to the post that inspired it by clicking the blue "In reply to" tag next to the subject line (aka post heading).
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macfalk
Valinor
Jan 9 2011, 1:52am
Post #309 of 379
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Flat mode is better.
The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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titanium_hobbit
Rohan
Jan 9 2011, 3:26am
Post #310 of 379
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I love that idea! Except, he would have read riddles in the dark, and isn't he fairly clueless about where the Ring comes from until Gandalf fills him in? (someone with better movie knowledge, or book knowledge, please fill me in!) Also, what about the white council stuff? Love the tie-in idea though!
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Kangi Ska
Half-elven
Jan 9 2011, 3:42am
Post #311 of 379
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Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good. At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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Ardamírë
Valinor
Jan 9 2011, 4:27am
Post #312 of 379
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I absolutely hate this idea. I would have been fine with seeing Frodo in a sort of epilogue, but not this. I would so much rather that the two hobbit films be set in the present and stand on their own feet, not be forced to be seen through the lens of LOTR. I'm all for connecting the two stories, but this just seems like a gratuitous way to shove cameos into the hobbit.
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Frodosfriend
Rivendell
Jan 9 2011, 4:36am
Post #313 of 379
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I don't know if I like this news or not, it gave me a knot in my stomach so maybe I'm not too keen but I guess I'll learn to like it. As good as it will be to see Frodo again I always imagined these movies to be stand alone. I really hope the whole movie isn't narrated by Frodo or anyone else. Oh well bring on the next big news.
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Ruijor
Rohan
Jan 9 2011, 5:33am
Post #314 of 379
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Call Guiness World Of Records!
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as this is turning into a hyper-casted kind of blockbuster as never seen before!
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Lindele
Gondor
Jan 9 2011, 7:00am
Post #315 of 379
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I am angered easily by naysayers. I trust PJ and Weta's filmmaking abilities on the same level that I trust Tolkiens writing abilities. And therefore, i trust their decisions.
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LoremIpsum
Lorien
Jan 9 2011, 8:01am
Post #316 of 379
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and I also think that by tying the Hobbit movies with LOTR they have a great chance of enhancing the story and making Bilbo's journey more powerful than it is in the book. I always thought that Jackson's greatest strength as a filmmaker is foreshadowing and creating a sense of inevitable doom, so I rather can't wait to see what he does with the one ring in the Hobbits. *runs away and hides*
(This post was edited by LoremIpsum on Jan 9 2011, 8:02am)
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FarFromHome
Valinor
Jan 9 2011, 10:50am
Post #317 of 379
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If that's not Sam's own door closing
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at the very end of the movie, I think the sense of bittersweet homecoming expressed in the words "Well, I'm back" would be lost. To me, whether or not Sam inherits Bag End is secondary to the knowledge that he "inherits" the life that Frodo's sacrifice has bought ("...you have so much to be, and to do. Your part in the story will go on.") The last scene is about coming home, and starting to live that life. I can imagine that Sam found out after this that Frodo had left him Bag End, but reading the scene as if he already lived there, and that when he closes the yellow door he's not in his own home, would just spoil the scene for me.
They went in, and Sam shut the door. But even as he did so, he heard suddenly, deep and unstilled, the sigh and murmur of the Sea upon the shores of Middle-earth. From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings
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Bran
Lorien
Jan 9 2011, 11:02am
Post #318 of 379
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They may come up against that same problem again, depending on how and if the cover Dol Guldur.
Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi
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Bran
Lorien
Jan 9 2011, 11:06am
Post #319 of 379
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I never bought the reasons for Aragorn falling from the cliff either. There was no need for it, and I didn't like it. I didn't particularly like some of the Legolas stuff either, particularly the snowboarding, and JRD's Gimli grated at times, especially the Dwarf tossing and swimming nonsense.
Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi
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Bran
Lorien
Jan 9 2011, 11:13am
Post #320 of 379
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Thanks for that. I've tried the various formats, but still struggle. I don't want to come on and start criticising, it's fine. It would be nice if there was a 'quote' option, so it's immediately clear who one is responding to, or indeed a 'multiquote' option, which I would have used in responding to you both at the same time, but I can live with it. I've lurked for many years, btw. For anyone who's interested, I live in Wales and, spend my summers in Dale. The real Dale! Cheers.
Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi
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Bran
Lorien
Jan 9 2011, 11:18am
Post #321 of 379
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Tolkien himself did this, don't forget. He originally wrote the Hobbit as a stand alone book, then went back and changed it so that it fitted in with LOTR. He then went further, in The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales, to explain how the events in the Hobbit came about, and explained what went on to make them happen. Whilst it is clear that the story originally started out as a single tale, it's very, very clear that Tolkien saw this tale as part of the whole picture, one piece in the jigsaw puzzle. To my mind, it's absolutely fine to replicate that in the films.
Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi
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carrioncrow
Lorien
Jan 9 2011, 2:19pm
Post #322 of 379
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and then he wisely gave up on trying to make THE HOBBIT something it wasn't. The End. until now
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Bran
Lorien
Jan 9 2011, 2:36pm
Post #323 of 379
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Having altered the Hobbit from the original, and then added to the story in LOTR, UT and TS, the tale was complete.
Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi
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Kangi Ska
Half-elven
Jan 9 2011, 5:20pm
Post #324 of 379
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You are free to believe what ever you want as am I.
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Bag End belonged to Sam & Family at the end of the book and I like it the way The Professor told it much better than PJ's revision. "And so it was settled. Sam Gamgee married Rose Cotton in the Spring of 1420, which was also famous for its weddings, and they came and lived at Bag End. And if Sam thought himself lucky, Frodo knew that he was more lucky himself; for there was not a hobbit in the Shire that was looked after with such care. When the labours of repair had all been planned and set going he took to a quiet life, writing a great deal and going through all his notes."
Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good. At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Jan 9 2011, 5:30pm)
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SirDennisC
Half-elven
Jan 9 2011, 6:25pm
Post #325 of 379
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Not so much belief as a matter of perspective --
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It is established that Lady FarFromHome's knowledge of the books is firm and her observations on Tolkien's work often profound. However, if I may go out on a limb once more, her perspective seems to be that it is important that the movies remain true to themselves, regardless of any deviation from Tolkien's written version of events. I might add, this perspective seems to be shared by many around here. But you are correct that we are all entitled to our own beliefs. It is interesting how both works (PJ's and Tolkien's) spark our imaginations, wondering about and filling in gaps before, during, and after the tales are told.
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