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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Elijah Wood will be in 'The Hobbit'
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Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jan 8 2011, 10:08pm

Post #301 of 379 (34050 views)
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Well they were hardly going to say something like [In reply to] Can't Post

'We filmed the whole sequence, then realised it looked silly so we decided to cut it.' Why would they, when they can give a reason that makes them sound concerned about staying close to the book? I think this is a bit like that time they fired Stuart Townsend 'because he was too young'. These explanations shouldn't always be taken at face value.


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jan 8 2011, 10:26pm

Post #302 of 379 (34059 views)
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But sometimes they should [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
These explanations shouldn't always be taken at face value.


The quote Mooseboy posted is hardly the only instance of PJ, Phillipa, Richard Taylor and many others associated with the LOTR movies talking about the care they took to 'get back to Tolkien.' Taken in the context of all the other instances, I think it *can* be taken at face value.

Did they sometimes stray outside of what Tolkien would have done? Of course they did. I don't think anyone can argue that they didn't. Still, I think for every instance where they made significant changes, there are many more where they took the greatest care they could to be as true as they could to the books.



Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jan 8 2011, 10:31pm

Post #303 of 379 (32443 views)
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I meant no disrespect to them [In reply to] Can't Post

but I think if the scene they filmed with Aragorn and Sauron had turned out really fantastic, then they would have included it in spite of its differences from the books. Faithfulness to Tolkien was probably a factor in the decision, but I don't think it was the only one.


Junesong
Rivendell


Jan 8 2011, 11:34pm

Post #304 of 379 (24986 views)
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Lets also not forget [In reply to] Can't Post

That they were trying to make the best movie they could. And there are some excellent and integral parts of Tolkien's books that just don't work as well in a movie. The scouring of the shire is a great example of this. It's one of the most potent chapters in the book, to have Frodo come back from the cracks of doom to find the same evil has come even to the shire.

But it would kill the movie. Especially a movie that necessitates a lot of endings as it is - lots of plot to tie up etc, to have the Scouring left in would have been very anticlimactic.

In so many situations any attempt to transfer Tolkien to the screen must be purchased with some amount of unfaithfulness to the text. It's usually only the geography, and the "iconic moments" that can remain exactly as Tolkien described. And even then everyone's imaginations work differently.

I'm not too worried. Jackson and co seem to try and be as faithful to Tolkien as possible while keeping priority number one making the best movie possible. That compromise worked well enough for me for the trilogy.

"Tim... Canterbury... Canterbury Tales... Chaucer... Shakespeare."


macfalk
Valinor


Jan 9 2011, 12:31am

Post #305 of 379 (22886 views)
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I think [In reply to] Can't Post

The only way Scouring of the Shire could have worked: if LOTR would have been made as a TV-series with 1 hour long episodes, so it could have an episode of it's own.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


nobofthepony
Lorien


Jan 9 2011, 12:51am

Post #306 of 379 (22015 views)
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I concur [In reply to] Can't Post

Reading your post I realize that Jackson's LOTR is the one thing in this world that I am a complete fanboy about. At the time though, I remembered cursing him for not leaving in Saruman's death and the mouth of Sauron...but looking back, I wouldn't change the films at all. I would LOVE to see another director take on Tolkien in the future but I can't say I'm disappointed he's doing the Hobbit. Having Frodo at the beginning of the film doesn't bother me personally...it would be great to see GDT take on Bereliand but I doubt the Tolkien estate would allow it...


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 9 2011, 1:25am

Post #307 of 379 (22884 views)
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Sam and his family were [In reply to] Can't Post

only visiting the Gaffer at #3 Bagshot Row at the end of Return of he King. They lived up on the hill in Bag End.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jan 9 2011, 1:34am

Post #308 of 379 (24804 views)
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Oh, well, welcome to TORn then Bran [In reply to] Can't Post

as for keeping things in order, near the top right of your screen you will see a button that either says "View Flat Mode" or "View Threaded." Click on it if it says "View Threaded" and the thread will change to a branch-like set up. In Threaded mode, though you can only see the content of one post at a time, you can see the direction the main thread (conversation) and side discussions are going. It is also easier to target your replies so they are more likely to be read by the member whose post you are commenting on.

In short, Flat Mode sorts the conversation by date and time while Threaded sorts posts into linear conversations and it's tangents (aka asides, side discussions, sub-threads) such as this one Wink

In both Threaded and Flat Mode if you are not sure who is responding to whom you can trace a comment to the post that inspired it by clicking the blue "In reply to" tag next to the subject line (aka post heading).


macfalk
Valinor


Jan 9 2011, 1:52am

Post #309 of 379 (23684 views)
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Hint to Bran: [In reply to] Can't Post

Flat mode is better.

Evil



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


titanium_hobbit
Rohan

Jan 9 2011, 3:26am

Post #310 of 379 (23654 views)
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yes yes yes! [In reply to] Can't Post

I love that idea!

Except, he would have read riddles in the dark, and isn't he fairly clueless about where the Ring comes from until Gandalf fills him in? (someone with better movie knowledge, or book knowledge, please fill me in!)

Also, what about the white council stuff?

Love the tie-in idea though!


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 9 2011, 3:42am

Post #311 of 379 (35138 views)
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No-no Threaded always! [In reply to] Can't Post

Evil

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


Ardamírë
Valinor

Jan 9 2011, 4:27am

Post #312 of 379 (32738 views)
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don't like it [In reply to] Can't Post

I absolutely hate this idea. I would have been fine with seeing Frodo in a sort of epilogue, but not this. I would so much rather that the two hobbit films be set in the present and stand on their own feet, not be forced to be seen through the lens of LOTR. I'm all for connecting the two stories, but this just seems like a gratuitous way to shove cameos into the hobbit.


Frodosfriend
Rivendell

Jan 9 2011, 4:36am

Post #313 of 379 (31707 views)
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Well this changes everything [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know if I like this news or not, it gave me a knot in my stomach so maybe I'm not too keen but I guess I'll learn to like it. As good as it will be to see Frodo again I always imagined these movies to be stand alone. I really hope the whole movie isn't narrated by Frodo or anyone else. Oh well bring on the next big news.


Ruijor
Rohan


Jan 9 2011, 5:33am

Post #314 of 379 (30189 views)
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Call Guiness World Of Records! [In reply to] Can't Post

as this is turning into a hyper-casted kind of blockbuster as never seen before! Cool


Lindele
Gondor


Jan 9 2011, 7:00am

Post #315 of 379 (32655 views)
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Thanks Silverlode [In reply to] Can't Post

I am angered easily by naysayers. I trust PJ and Weta's filmmaking abilities on the same level that I trust Tolkiens writing abilities. And therefore, i trust their decisions.


LoremIpsum
Lorien


Jan 9 2011, 8:01am

Post #316 of 379 (31996 views)
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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

and I also think that by tying the Hobbit movies with LOTR they have a great chance of enhancing the story and making Bilbo's journey more powerful than it is in the book. I always thought that Jackson's greatest strength as a filmmaker is foreshadowing and creating a sense of inevitable doom, so I rather can't wait to see what he does with the one ring in the Hobbits.

*runs away and hides*Sly


(This post was edited by LoremIpsum on Jan 9 2011, 8:02am)


FarFromHome
Valinor


Jan 9 2011, 10:50am

Post #317 of 379 (44850 views)
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If that's not Sam's own door closing [In reply to] Can't Post

at the very end of the movie, I think the sense of bittersweet homecoming expressed in the words "Well, I'm back" would be lost. To me, whether or not Sam inherits Bag End is secondary to the knowledge that he "inherits" the life that Frodo's sacrifice has bought ("...you have so much to be, and to do. Your part in the story will go on.") The last scene is about coming home, and starting to live that life.

I can imagine that Sam found out after this that Frodo had left him Bag End, but reading the scene as if he already lived there, and that when he closes the yellow door he's not in his own home, would just spoil the scene for me.

They went in, and Sam shut the door.
But even as he did so, he heard suddenly,
deep and unstilled,
the sigh and murmur of the Sea upon the shores of Middle-earth.
From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings



Bran
Lorien

Jan 9 2011, 11:02am

Post #318 of 379 (31971 views)
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14 foot bad guys [In reply to] Can't Post

They may come up against that same problem again, depending on how and if the cover Dol Guldur.

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi


Bran
Lorien

Jan 9 2011, 11:06am

Post #319 of 379 (31515 views)
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Aragorn and the cliff [In reply to] Can't Post

I never bought the reasons for Aragorn falling from the cliff either. There was no need for it, and I didn't like it. I didn't particularly like some of the Legolas stuff either, particularly the snowboarding, and JRD's Gimli grated at times, especially the Dwarf tossing and swimming nonsense.

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi


Bran
Lorien

Jan 9 2011, 11:13am

Post #320 of 379 (31259 views)
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SirDennis, Macfalk [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for that. I've tried the various formats, but still struggle. I don't want to come on and start criticising, it's fine. It would be nice if there was a 'quote' option, so it's immediately clear who one is responding to, or indeed a 'multiquote' option, which I would have used in responding to you both at the same time, but I can live with it.

I've lurked for many years, btw.

For anyone who's interested, I live in Wales and, spend my summers in Dale. The real Dale!

Cheers.

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi


Bran
Lorien

Jan 9 2011, 11:18am

Post #321 of 379 (32150 views)
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Tying in The Hobbit with LOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

Tolkien himself did this, don't forget. He originally wrote the Hobbit as a stand alone book, then went back and changed it so that it fitted in with LOTR. He then went further, in The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales, to explain how the events in the Hobbit came about, and explained what went on to make them happen.

Whilst it is clear that the story originally started out as a single tale, it's very, very clear that Tolkien saw this tale as part of the whole picture, one piece in the jigsaw puzzle. To my mind, it's absolutely fine to replicate that in the films.

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi


carrioncrow
Lorien

Jan 9 2011, 2:19pm

Post #322 of 379 (29299 views)
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and then... [In reply to] Can't Post

and then he wisely gave up on trying to make THE HOBBIT something it wasn't. The End.

until now


Bran
Lorien

Jan 9 2011, 2:36pm

Post #323 of 379 (32716 views)
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Well he didn't need to [In reply to] Can't Post

Having altered the Hobbit from the original, and then added to the story in LOTR, UT and TS, the tale was complete.

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 9 2011, 5:20pm

Post #324 of 379 (51325 views)
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You are free to believe what ever you want as am I. [In reply to] Can't Post

Bag End belonged to Sam & Family at the end of the book and I like it the way The Professor told it much better than PJ's revision.

"And so it was settled. Sam Gamgee married Rose Cotton in the Spring of
1420, which was also famous for its weddings, and they came and lived at Bag
End. And if Sam thought himself lucky, Frodo knew that he was more lucky
himself; for there was not a hobbit in the Shire that was looked after with such
care. When the labours of repair had all been planned and set going he took to a
quiet life, writing a great deal and going through all his notes."

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket

(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Jan 9 2011, 5:30pm)


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jan 9 2011, 6:25pm

Post #325 of 379 (29117 views)
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Not so much belief as a matter of perspective -- [In reply to] Can't Post

It is established that Lady FarFromHome's knowledge of the books is firm and her observations on Tolkien's work often profound.

However, if I may go out on a limb once more, her perspective seems to be that it is important that the movies remain true to themselves, regardless of any deviation from Tolkien's written version of events. I might add, this perspective seems to be shared by many around here.

But you are correct that we are all entitled to our own beliefs. It is interesting how both works (PJ's and Tolkien's) spark our imaginations, wondering about and filling in gaps before, during, and after the tales are told.

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