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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Elijah Wood will be in 'The Hobbit'
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Doriath
Rivendell


Jan 7 2011, 7:40pm

Post #151 of 379 (40015 views)
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Guess I'll jump in [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm realizing, finally, that there's no way to get exactly what you want from these films even if you are the one making them. I had problems with the first films but I still enjoy them. I will have problems with the next films but I'm sure I'll enjoy them enough. As I've talked about before, I hope to see these films done again someday in my lifetime by a whole new team. Perhaps England based. Perhaps Scandinavian. Maybe a mix. I would ultimately like to see films that stay completely true to the source material and long for the day when 3D is looked back on and laughed at. I think I'd even be happy with a considerably smaller budget so you don't have the money men calling the shots and demanding that it have break dancing robots in it or whatever the soup du jour is at that time. Another idea is to have it done as a series on cable. I always think about how terrible the movie "Dune" was and how great the series on cable was. So I look forward to those possibilities and will get a decent amount of enjoyment out of whatever we get in the next couple of years. Welcome back Elijah.

Gives it to us in glorious 2D!


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jan 7 2011, 7:40pm

Post #152 of 379 (26732 views)
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If you ask me, [In reply to] Can't Post

it doesn't make a lot of sense to have either Bilbo or Frodo say those words...at least not if they're going to follow it up with the comments about Hobbit Holes. But I can easily hear Gandalf saying it. In fact, I could hear Gandalf saying nearly all the narrator's lines. It will be interesting to see what they actually do. The Galadriel-narrated opening to FOTR was a surprise to me, but I loved it even though I'd been secretly hoping for the Ring Verse, which we never got at all.

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories

(This post was edited by Silverlode on Jan 7 2011, 7:41pm)


RosieLass
Valinor


Jan 7 2011, 7:42pm

Post #153 of 379 (43638 views)
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LOL! [In reply to] Can't Post

The typos are a nice touch! Laugh



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


hobbit2012
The Shire

Jan 7 2011, 7:46pm

Post #154 of 379 (28479 views)
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How the heck must these movies then be viewed in future? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know, this news sounds problematic, just purely from a viewing point of view.

If it is just a narration, or if the end of The Hobbit is a transition to FOTR with Frodo reading the book, that would work fine.

However, it sounds like this movie will open with Frodo. Depending when the book is read, how the heck is the pentology supposed to be viewed by future audiences? For example, will they play FOTR and TTT, start up ROTK, switch it off halfway wherever the book is read, then jump to the Hobbit movies as a flashback story, after that jump back to the ROTK and view the remainder of that movie? That will be horribly cumbersome, and an awkward way for future fans to view the series.

Why not a linear story? A future viewer should be able to start the series with The Hobbit without first having viewing the LOTR. The Hobbit can then seamlessly transition to the LOTR trilogy and voila! the pentology can be viewed chronologically in a straightforward pattern. And I think that the opening to FOTR would work, as it is a brief flashback fleshing out the mythology and will compliment the story, rather than 2 whole flashback movies.

Hopefully it will be limited to a narration, but from the spoiler it looks like this thing is going to be some stupid flashback in the middle of the LOTR trilogy Mad. Not to mention I hate movies which are pointless in story in a story (i.e. as opposed to narration, the story really revolves around our protagonist having some dream / reading a book / etc, and ends when he him wakes up, or walks out the shower, or some such rubbish).


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jan 7 2011, 7:47pm

Post #155 of 379 (24848 views)
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What you are talking about sounds like a reboot [In reply to] Can't Post

and that's the last thing I want. The Hobbit films should be prequels to the Lord of the Rings ones, and should maintain a strong sense of continuity with them. I think very few people would be happy if the director (Peter Jackson or anyone else) decided to throw out the trilogy and just start from scratch. That would only make sense if the trilogy was a huge critical and/or commercial failure – a good example would be the appalling Batman & Robin, which was rebooted into the excellent Batman Begins, complete with a new director and an all-new cast.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jan 7 2011, 7:53pm

Post #156 of 379 (25200 views)
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Two points [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
However, it sounds like this movie will open with Frodo. Depending when the book is read, how the heck is the pentology supposed to be viewed by future audiences? For example, will they play FOTR and TTT, start up ROTK, switch it off halfway wherever the book is read, then jump to the Hobbit movies as a flashback story, after that jump back to the ROTK and view the remainder of that movie? That will be horribly cumbersome, and an awkward way for future fans to view the series.

Perhaps Jackson will re-edit the pentalogy into chronological order for the Ultimate Edition? The Hobbit bookends and flashbacks would be placed at whatever point they occur in the story (presumably somewhere amongst RotK's multiple endings). I think it could work.


Quote
Hopefully it will be limited to a narration, but from the spoiler it looks like this thing is going to be some stupid flashback in the middle of the LOTR trilogy Mad. Not to mention I hate movies which are pointless in story in a story (i.e. as opposed to narration, the story really revolves around our protagonist having some dream / reading a book / etc, and ends when he him wakes up, or walks out the shower, or some such rubbish).

The Red Book of Westmarch which Frodo is reading is actually Bilbo's memoirs, not a fictional book within the film or anything like that. The framing device is just a way to present a flashback. It's not going to be a metafictional dream sequence or anything like that!



Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jan 7 2011, 7:54pm

Post #157 of 379 (23717 views)
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Yes he did change his mind [In reply to] Can't Post

and he made that statement on TORN. You can find that post through the board's search function.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jan 7 2011, 8:01pm

Post #158 of 379 (23137 views)
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I like the idea [In reply to] Can't Post

of Tolkien's work passing into the public domain and joining such classic, near-mythological stories as Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, Sherlock Holmes, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, The War of the Worlds, the Lovecraft mythos and so on. That would allow everyone to do whatever they like with the stories and adapt them in as many ways as they can imagine. What I don't like is the idea of Warners just going ahead and producing a remake of any of Jackson's films ten or twenty years from now. I don't want to see another version until the copyright has expired and Tolkien's legendarium becomes the property of humanity as a whole – just like any other self-respecting mythology!


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jan 7 2011, 8:01pm

Post #159 of 379 (24804 views)
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So it takes Frodo [In reply to] Can't Post

to draw you out of lurkerdom, hmmm? *makes note*

;)

Nice to see you here Swan Maiden. :)

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 7 2011, 8:23pm

Post #160 of 379 (27018 views)
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Middle-earth I: The Phantom Hobbit [In reply to] Can't Post

I concluded some time ago, that the Hobbit would be best served if it were neither prequel nor sequel but dealt with as a worthy story onto itself. Now it appears that it will be turned into a cast reunion film in an attempt to protect the half billion dollar investment. This is very disappointing.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


macfalk
Valinor


Jan 7 2011, 8:24pm

Post #161 of 379 (26646 views)
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I'm just glad they won't swap Gollum with Jar-Jar. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Eruonen
Valinor


Jan 7 2011, 8:28pm

Post #162 of 379 (25052 views)
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My guess is that we could possibly see Ian Holm telling Wood [In reply to] Can't Post

about his youthful adventures (sometime before the LOTR) and then the movie cuts away.....


Patty
Immortal


Jan 7 2011, 8:28pm

Post #163 of 379 (24799 views)
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You said it, Macfalk... [In reply to] Can't Post

Jar-Jar is my least favorite non-villain character in all of moviedom.

Permanent address: Into the West

Must. Have. The Precious! Give us the LotR EE Blu-ray Ultimate Box Set!



Jettorex
Lorien


Jan 7 2011, 8:31pm

Post #164 of 379 (25416 views)
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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
it doesn't make a lot of sense to have either Bilbo or Frodo say those words...at least not if they're going to follow it up with the comments about Hobbit Holes. But I can easily hear Gandalf saying it. In fact, I could hear Gandalf saying nearly all the narrator's lines. It will be interesting to see what they actually do. The Galadriel-narrated opening to FOTR was a surprise to me, but I loved it even though I'd been secretly hoping for the Ring Verse, which we never got at all.



I always envisioned Gandalf/Ian saying these lines (In a hole in the ground...)to open the beginning of The Hobitt movie as the first shot zeroes in on Bilbo's front door. I don't see how they could possibly have this saying now that Frodo is going to be in it as some sort of introduction to the movie/story in flashback?

BTW-I totally have the same feeling with you on the Galadriel opening to LOTR. I always thought they should have had the Ring Verse, either spoken or text (on the screen) as one of the first things as LOTR starts.


- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."





Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 7 2011, 8:36pm

Post #165 of 379 (39640 views)
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Boromir as the first ghost of Yules past.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


RosieLass
Valinor


Jan 7 2011, 8:41pm

Post #166 of 379 (24989 views)
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That's exactly what I wanted. [In reply to] Can't Post

And I daresay some of the film purists would have been unhappy at first, but if it was done well, why couldn't it work?

I'm not as sold on the concept of The Hobbit being a "prequel" to LOTR anyway. It is a separate book, and it can stand on its own merits. It doesn't need to ride LOTR's coattails to be successful.

(Does anyone notice that I'm using the same arguments always given for why movie-LOTR could take liberties with book-LOTR and still be good? Hmmm??? Wink)



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 7 2011, 8:43pm

Post #167 of 379 (23854 views)
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What makes you so certain? [In reply to] Can't Post

Wezza needs the precious!

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket

(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Jan 7 2011, 8:45pm)


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jan 7 2011, 8:55pm

Post #168 of 379 (43917 views)
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Audiences don't want excellent series to be rebooted. [In reply to] Can't Post

And that's what Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings is – an excellent series. There's no reason to alienate everyone who liked the trilogy (read: a lot of people) by disconnecting it from The Hobbit. Why should they deliberately reboot the series and give us a different-looking Bilbo, Gandalf, Shire, Rivendell, Dwarves, Elves, hobbits, orcs, trolls etc when all these characters looked perfect in the trilogy? It's not just 'film purists' (whatever that means) who would dislike this move: it's practically everyone outside of a very small purist minority.

I don't think I ever said that The Hobbit wasn't good enough to work as a stand-alone film. It does not 'need to ride LotR's coat-tails to be successful', but I see no reason to attempt the sort of segregation of the pentalogy that you're suggesting.


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jan 7 2011, 8:56pm

Post #169 of 379 (44872 views)
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Drogo and Primula [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the potential ramifications of having Frodo in some way involved in the films (even as a narrator) and having his parents, Drogo and Primula apparently also involved in some way. I find it hard to believe that the two things will be completely unconnected.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


RosieLass
Valinor


Jan 7 2011, 9:01pm

Post #170 of 379 (220995 views)
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Everyone? Who is this "everyone"? [In reply to] Can't Post

"Everyone who loved Peter Jackson's LOTR" maybe.

But what about those of us who only "liked" it? Or those who actively disliked it? Or those who haven't seen it and don't care what it was about but might be interested in a movie based on another great book by a great author?

Or, heck, the people who just like to see movies for the filmcraft?

I appreciate your point of view, Flagg, but I think you're presuming too much to speak for "everyone" or even to claim that you're the vast majority.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)

(This post was edited by RosieLass on Jan 7 2011, 9:03pm)


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jan 7 2011, 9:11pm

Post #171 of 379 (44570 views)
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I don't think I'm being unreasonable. [In reply to] Can't Post

As I'm sure you're aware, Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings films were released to great critical acclaim and commercial success, breaking box-office records, winning many prestigious awards and satisfying most fans of Tolkien's work.

I don't see why those that only 'liked' them would want The Hobbit to be reboot, set in a new continuity and with all-new actors. The same goes for those who haven't seen The Lord of the Rings, those who don't care about it, those who are mildly curious about an adaptation of a Tolkien book or those who appreciate good filmmaking. The only people who really want the series to be rebooted are those who disliked or hated the Peter Jackson films, and I suspect that they are a very small (albeit vocal) minority when compared to the masses who would be satisfied with a simple cohesive series taking place in one continuity.


(This post was edited by Flagg on Jan 7 2011, 9:18pm)


R11
Lorien

Jan 7 2011, 9:13pm

Post #172 of 379 (26722 views)
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I'm sorry but [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I could not possibly agree more. But PJ has never been a respecter of Tolkien's written word so color me NOT surprised that he puts financial gain (by linking it with his big moneymaker) ahead of fidelity to Tolkien's work. I'm sure they'll find a zillion ways to rationalize it... like Faramir-the-evil-street-thug of the movies had to be that way for 'cinematic' reason. Won't make it more palatable to us 'purists' who are silly enough to favor Tolkien over Jackson. But it'll make money... and that IS their only real goal. Making money.

*shrug*



This is simply a full load of hog wash. If you think PJ cares not about the works and is only concerned about financial gain you are simply lost in the woods friend. It's ludicrous.


ron


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jan 7 2011, 9:23pm

Post #173 of 379 (27309 views)
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Yes that occured [In reply to] Can't Post

to me after posting, and likely it occurred to others in this thread who think situating the tale near the end of ROTK is the way to go.

Statements have been made to the effect that when all is said and done TH and LOTR could be viewed as a continuous narrative in future. But I do not think that was meant to imply that the movies would be best viewed in the order the books were written or in a linear manner. It may be that the preferred order will be to view the original film (ie LOTR) followed by the prequel (ie TH) which is sometimes the case (for example Hannibal followed by Hannibal Rising or as seems to be the case with the two Star Wars trilogies).

This mirrors the way we experience many great stories... we happen upon a tale such as Tennyson's Idylls of the King and then seek out its source Le morte d'Arthur. I wonder how many LOTR fans read The Lord of the Rings after seeing the movies and then delved further back to The Hobbit and then perhaps even Beowulf?

But you raise a fair concern if this is the approach they (being them) adopt. Certainly the treatment of knowledge of the Ring would be a tricky element but not really a deal breaker. How often do we slip into nostalgia, fondly embracing a time when our understanding was simpler or our world view less jaded?


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Jan 7 2011, 9:25pm)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 7 2011, 9:30pm

Post #174 of 379 (24952 views)
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Yes it looks as if the Bridge Film is being reborn as a Wrapper for the Hobbit. [In reply to] Can't Post

I almost expect the farm hand scene from the end of the Wizard of Oz to be re-imaged. Gandalf, Aragorn and Gollem look down at Frodo regaining consciousness lying on the tarmac in front of The Green Dragon.

"You were there and so were you and you. There is no place like the Shire!"

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


Sunflower
Valinor

Jan 7 2011, 9:32pm

Post #175 of 379 (25107 views)
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I mentioned it, Voronwe [In reply to] Can't Post

See my post above.

I sincerely hope that we see them in a blink-and-you'll-miss-it shot of them holding baby Frodo, a la Bail Organa and his wife holding and smiling down at baby Leia,...but please God NOT a macabre re-enactment of them being "drownded". We don't need to see that. Bilbo already tells us that they died at the Party. We don't need to know how. Though knowing Peter that's just the sort of grisly thing he'd love to focus upon. But I don't want to see it, no thanks. Not even if it was indeed "Drogo's weight as sunk the boat"--that might sound humurous in print, but it's not amusing on the screen at all.


(This post was edited by Sunflower on Jan 7 2011, 9:36pm)

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