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Flagg
Tol Eressea
Jan 7 2011, 6:38pm
Post #126 of 379
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Did Bilbo write his memoirs in the third person, beginning with 'In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit'? Or did he write them in the first person, leaving Tolkien (who discovered a copy of the Red Book) to translate his tale and rewrite it as a children's story?
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Sunflower
Valinor
Jan 7 2011, 6:42pm
Post #127 of 379
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It's actually 65 years (60 between TH and FOTR, the year of the War of the Ring, and 4 more years after the end of the War, to the last scene in Bag End. Unless they show Frodo reading from the almost-completed Red Book say, 3 after. ) MrCere, does the rumor say we are actually going to SEE Frodo onscreen in the opening scene of TH 1? If we merely hear him doing a voice-over, it presents far less problems. It would b easier for me to accept the occaisional voice-over during TH as well. Then, you are still in the dark about who this mysterious "narrator" is, and the existence of Frodo and the timeframe of the narrative/identity of the Narrator is gradually revealed as the story goes on. (at the beg. of FOTR the future viewer realizes, "Oh, so this is who it is! Frodo, son of Drogo and Primula, and Bilbo adopted him!" --it seems we are going to be seeing the tragic deaths of, or at least a Hobbiton scene of, Drogo and Primula). This is the Problem: this is all a lot easier to believe if the future viewer is watching the EE's. But if they are watching the Theatricals, this won't make any sense at all. ""60 years later" at the beginning of FOTR, as we see Frodo under the tree? And we've just seen the Prologue which takes you 3000 years back in tim. I remember watching the Prologue in the theater the first time, and if I hadn't known the story well, I imagine that "60 yrs later" would have confuse me at first. 60 yrs after what? Oh, right, 60 yrs after Bilbo finds a ring in a cave. That Prologue was seemingly straightforward but really asked a lot of movie-firsters, I'm thinking. (I'd love to hear reactions from movie-firsters if the Prolgue confused you at all, the first time you saw it?) You have to remember, that Peter is facing the same problem George Lucas faced with the SW prequels. Fans of now may grouse, but this is really being made for future generations, where they'll sit down and watch the Pentology in order. So if we hear Frodo as a narrator in TH long before we see him onscreen, it would work wonderfully. (Except the theatrical would present some problems--that "60 yrs later" would have to be removed--as well as Ian Holm not looking like Martin in that brief flash-back? forward? scene in the FOTR Prologue --OUCH MY POOR BRAIN)-- If WB is pressuring Peter into doing a sort of "Super-Prologue" to tie all this up for the movie-firster, when it really isn;t necessary, we're screwed. They have to have faith that it makes far more sense for the viewer to gradually find out who the narrator is, and the story would flow a lot better. OH God nightmare visions of Dune here* But if the script calls for the audience to *see* Frodo in the very first scene of The Pentology, this would cause problems. How do you explain this character to the first-time movie-firster of the future? We see a mysterious scene of a hobbit reading a book he is writing in a house we don't know, yet, is Bag End. Is he alone, reading it as he writies it, as we later see Bilbo doing at the beginning of FOTR EE? Maybe that would work--if it's a brief teaser, just to get our curiosity piqued--if we are told nothing, If Frodo tells us nothing. IS Elijah really going to be reading the first pages word for word--"IN the hole in the groumd there lived a Hobbit?" etc. And when Gandlaf appears, he's say, "Gandalf! If you'd half of what I heard" etc. Will he be reading to Elanor maybe? That would be a problem, since we'd only be able to see the back of Elanor's head, it being a miracle if they could find a 3-yr-old who looks exactly like 3-yr-old Alexandra did. (Although the aspect of the Saga having evolved, as Sam wished it, into a "fireside-tale for young Hobbits" is a charming one, if it is realized on the screen.It was hinted at at the end of TTT< in Sam's speech, just as it was in the book. That would be a nice evolving transition. ) Would we see Sam as well? Increasingly I think that Sean should narrate the darned thing, since "the very last pages were really his." I wish if Peter ever adds anything in the Ultimate Edition, it would be for a middle-aged or older Sean Astin handing the Red Book off to grown-up Alexandra, and hey, his other 2 grown kids, playing Goldilocks and Rosie-lass,etc--that woul be **absolutely enchanting**--I think they'd do it too! --not likely though--but hey a gal can dream can't she?) (Ok Sunflower, you're going insane. Stop the madness now. ) Count on us fans to make a mountain out of a mol-hill-or in this case a Hobbit-hill. I'll bet Peter and Co and Guillermo (if he still reads this) are laughing their heads off. This is all probsbly hoo-hah, as HM says, over nothing.
(This post was edited by Sunflower on Jan 7 2011, 6:49pm)
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The Party Tree
Lorien
Jan 7 2011, 6:44pm
Post #128 of 379
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I always thought the point of having a narrator at all for TH would be so that this line could start off the movie.
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Bound
Rohan
Jan 7 2011, 6:48pm
Post #129 of 379
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I know Geordie seems to be leaving these forums.. and his last comments - if about Elijah Woods seem rather odd. Did you meet him in real life and was rude to you.. is this the origin of your hatred??
the man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed
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Bran
Lorien
Jan 7 2011, 6:54pm
Post #130 of 379
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Might have a part to play in this. I suspect the film makers will not want to give away anything about the true nature of the ring in these films. That would potentially spoil the start of FOTR for future film goers unfamiliar with the story. Doesn't that suggest that Frodo narrating the Hobbit from a time before FOTR makes more sense? When he, himself would not know what the ring was?
Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi
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macfalk
Valinor
Jan 7 2011, 6:54pm
Post #131 of 379
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I agree, it seemed as a strange comment to make //
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The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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Brandybuckled
Lorien
Jan 7 2011, 6:57pm
Post #132 of 379
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Thanks! You just gave me an idea for my sig line!
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I never participated in the great NARF wars of the Fourth Age, but now I can be a NAArP'er
NAArP since 2011!
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jan 7 2011, 7:02pm
Post #133 of 379
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I see both of those, followed by U GUYZ ARNT REAL FANS REAL FANS WOUD ARGREE WITH ME I AM THE BIGEST LOTR FAN EVAR I SAW ALL THE MOVIES 3 TIMS!!!!!!!!!!
<Looking through crystal ball> HOW DARE PJ REMOVE THE TALKING PURSE!!!!
HOW DARE PJ LEAVE IN THE TALKING PURSE!!! Silverlode "Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them. Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you." -On Fairy Stories
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jan 7 2011, 7:11pm
Post #134 of 379
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I think it would be good to begin that way too, but if there's to be some sort of prologue-ey Frodo-reads-book opening then there is, and we might as well make the best of it for now - at least, that's the way I'm trying to look at it. But if the cinema darkens and the titles go up and the first words we hear are "In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit...", no matter who says them, I shall start watching with a big satisfied smile!
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jan 7 2011, 7:11pm
Post #135 of 379
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And I feel your pain. I don't know if this will help or not, but part of the reason every thread is peppered with complaints is that there are always many schools of thought on any issue concerning the books or the movies. This means that everyone is happy at some news and unhappy at other news. So when one group is happy, another group isn't, and vice versa. This means that while there are a few wet blankets around who apparently don't like anything at all, a lot of the complaining is spread around - different people complaining at different things. It helps somewhat to know the people as individuals, because then instead of a big group complaining en masse, you get to the point where you know that this person loves this idea and hates that one, but that person is the opposite, and that one over there can be trusted to bring up ______ at every opportunity. I don't know that it makes it less whiny, but at least it gives some variety to the chorus of moans. If you're waiting for the news that makes everyone happy....I'm not sure we've ever heard it. Perhaps the announcement of Ian McKellan's signing will be the closest, though I'm sure there's someone who's secretly hoping he'll be out and someone else will be in, and they'll make sure to come and tell us so. It's just the nature of things in a place like this.
Silverlode "Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them. Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you." -On Fairy Stories
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Brandybuckled
Lorien
Jan 7 2011, 7:16pm
Post #136 of 379
(34616 views)
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It's not a purse! It's a Middle Earthian carry-all!!
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As a purist (but not an ardent purist), I will be satisfied with nothing until I get to see the movie. Until then I shall complain (but not ardently) about the tune in my head not being in the same key as the tune in TPTB's heads.
NAArP since 2011!
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Darkstone
Immortal
Jan 7 2011, 7:16pm
Post #137 of 379
(36435 views)
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"She was an elf once, taken by the dark powers, tortured and mutilated. A ruined and terrible form..."
****************************************** "The ring cannot be destroyed, Gimli, son of Gloin, by any craft that we here possess. The ring was made in the fires of Mount Doom. Only there can it be unmade. The ring must be taken deep into Mordor and cast back into the fiery chasm from whence it came. One of you must do this." *crickets*
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peleowyn
Rivendell
Jan 7 2011, 7:17pm
Post #138 of 379
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We were all so hoping to see all our friends again! Hooray!!
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Flagg
Tol Eressea
Jan 7 2011, 7:20pm
Post #139 of 379
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You're right about the McKellen announcement
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Even that won't totally satisfy everybody. I remember Gandalf'sMother saying that she (or he?) would like The Hobbit to get a new director, a new Saruman and a new Gandalf, but that's the only person as far as I'm aware.
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Patty
Immortal
Jan 7 2011, 7:20pm
Post #140 of 379
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But hopes it doesn't come true.
Permanent address: Into the West Must. Have. The Precious! Give us the LotR EE Blu-ray Ultimate Box Set!
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macfalk
Valinor
Jan 7 2011, 7:23pm
Post #141 of 379
(34058 views)
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The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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macfalk
Valinor
Jan 7 2011, 7:26pm
Post #142 of 379
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I think maybe 99% of the fans (this is just my estimation) accepts Ian McKellen as Gandy. It may not have been their first choice, but he worked. Another estimation is that maybe 80 % loves Ian McKellen as Gandy (as myself). Like Silverlode I think this announcement is the closest we can get to a mutual Yay-feeling around here. Or a mutual Nay-feeling for that matter, if he does not reprise his role as Gandalf.
The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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RosieLass
Valinor
Jan 7 2011, 7:26pm
Post #143 of 379
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Well, I was hoping that everyone would be new, too.
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Not because I disliked McKellen's Gandalf, because I didn't. I thought he did a terrific job. I was just hoping to see a different Middle-earth from a different director's perspective, just for variety's sake.
It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)
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RosieLass
Valinor
Jan 7 2011, 7:28pm
Post #144 of 379
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Maybe this is where they're moving the Trolls' purse. //
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It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)
(This post was edited by RosieLass on Jan 7 2011, 7:29pm)
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Flagg
Tol Eressea
Jan 7 2011, 7:33pm
Post #145 of 379
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that it would be nice to get a different director and a different perspective on Middle-earth (there are several that I would have preferred to direct The Hobbit), but recasting iconic characters solely for the sake of mixing things up is just going too far in my view.
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Darkstone
Immortal
Jan 7 2011, 7:35pm
Post #146 of 379
(34318 views)
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So they're making a troll's purse from an elf's ear? /
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****************************************** "The ring cannot be destroyed, Gimli, son of Gloin, by any craft that we here possess. The ring was made in the fires of Mount Doom. Only there can it be unmade. The ring must be taken deep into Mordor and cast back into the fiery chasm from whence it came. One of you must do this." *crickets*
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Pipe Dream
Gondor
Jan 7 2011, 7:36pm
Post #147 of 379
(34831 views)
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What if they somehow tie Frodo into Gandalf The White's long talk with Tom Bombadil at the end of ROTK where Gandalf would tell the tale of how all this business of the ring started?
<<< There is a long road yet >>>
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macfalk
Valinor
Jan 7 2011, 7:36pm
Post #148 of 379
(36012 views)
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The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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Flagg
Tol Eressea
Jan 7 2011, 7:39pm
Post #149 of 379
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I love the idea of working Bombadil in somehow
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If only they'd left the line in RotK where Gandalf says he's going off to meet him... Maybe Frodo could narrate Bilbo's tale while sitting in Bag End and reading the Red Book, and Gandalf could narrate the adventures of the White Council while telling his parts of the story to Tom Bombadil?
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RosieLass
Valinor
Jan 7 2011, 7:39pm
Post #150 of 379
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It would be silly for Peter Jackson to cast a different Gandalf. But if we'd gotten a different producer and director, I would have wanted them to start with a clean slate and give us all new casting.
It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)
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