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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Elijah Wood will be in 'The Hobbit'
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geordie
Tol Eressea

Jan 7 2011, 1:28pm

Post #51 of 379 (21759 views)
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Oh. My. Gahd... No [In reply to] Can't Post

There goes the last vestige of my interest in and curiosity about these movies.


(This post was edited by geordie on Jan 7 2011, 1:30pm)


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jan 7 2011, 1:29pm

Post #52 of 379 (27374 views)
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Very interesting [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not too pleased about this, but I'll give it a chance. One particularly noticeable implication is that The Hobbit is, for the most part, going to be a sequel to The Lord of the Rings. Frodo is reading the Red Book after his return from Mordor, and the entire story of Bilbo is told as a very long flashback. I guess that's the filmmakers' way of tailoring The Hobbit for an audience which has already experienced The Lord of the Rings.

I wonder: will the White Council/Necromancer/Dol Guldur scenes be included in Bilbo's tale in the Red Book of Westmarch? Any other way would necessitate the interruption of the storytelling, so that Gandalf can contribute the parts of the story for which Bilbo wasn't present (or something along those lines).

I think it would have been better to make Sam the narrator, and have him read Bilbo's part of the Red Book aloud to his children. That way flows better with The Lord of the Rings, as we saw Frodo hand Sam the book towards the end of the third film, and we also saw Sam's children. Establishing a connection between the Red Book and Sam's progeny would also flow better with Tolkien's writings, as they inherited it. Since Sean Astin is older now, it would make sense for him to play the older Sam – much more sense than it makes for the older Elijah Wood to be playing the younger Frodo. Maybe the second film could have ended with Sam saying goodbye to Elanor at the Grey Havens, and giving the Red Book into her keeping... but making Frodo the narrator means that these films, as a whole, will have to slot in somewhere in between the multiple endings of Return of the King – talk about awkward storytelling chronology!


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jan 7 2011, 1:30pm

Post #53 of 379 (22562 views)
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That's a tad melodramatic. [In reply to] Can't Post

Give them a chance at least!


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jan 7 2011, 1:52pm

Post #54 of 379 (22927 views)
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The narrator's voice [In reply to] Can't Post

One way it could be done would be to have Frodo start reading from the Red Book of Westmarch – at first we hear Frodo's voice, reciting Bilbo's story in the first person. Then the scene fades to '60 years ago', and Bilbo's voice takes over from Frodo's. This voice could be provided by either Martin Freeman or Ian Holm (I would prefer the latter).

Also, I think 'an extreme flash-forward' is a very complicated way of looking at it. It sound to me more like The Hobbit actually opens towards the end of The Return of the King, and that Bilbo's entire story is presented as an enormous flashback.


Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jan 7 2011, 2:07pm

Post #55 of 379 (43133 views)
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I'm for it. [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been doubtful they could pull off the story without having a narrator, and hoped it would be Ian Holm as older Bilbo. Make-up and a chair too sit in, now that's not asking too much. I guess it could be Frodo...or both of them better still.

Photobucket
<<< There is a long road yet >>>

(This post was edited by Pipe Dream on Jan 7 2011, 2:11pm)


Daeorn Aldalómë
Bree


Jan 7 2011, 2:15pm

Post #56 of 379 (23815 views)
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Could Frodo be "reading" Bilbo's story in Rivendell? [In reply to] Can't Post

So basically:

The Lord of the Rings: The Hobbit, Part 1
The Lord of the Rings: The Hobbit, Part 2
The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring
The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers
The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King

Hmm, I might need to warm up to the idea of Frodo introducing The Hobbit films. I think -- and don't ask me why this would make it any better -- but I would prefer Frodo reading about this story while in Rivendell, still recovering from his Ringwraith wound -- not after the Fall of Sauron. Maybe because in The Two Towers flashbacks were already used to converge story plots at that point in the story.

Nai hiruvalyë Valimar.


Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea


Jan 7 2011, 2:19pm

Post #57 of 379 (22100 views)
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Oh yes, I agree there are different levels of 'purity' [In reply to] Can't Post

I am a bit of a Tolkien purist myself.

My comment was more thinking of the very, very staunch Tolkien purists. Many of them did not like Jackson's LOTR. I am a bit surprised that they thought these movies would be any "purer" in some aspects, such as the most limited ties to LOTR as possible. I just never saw that happening.

My LiveJournal ~ My artwork and photography

NARF since age 8, when I refused to read the Hobbit because the cover looked boring and icky.


Daeorn Aldalómë
Bree


Jan 7 2011, 2:21pm

Post #58 of 379 (23920 views)
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Yes! Sam would be a better choice to flow off of tRotK [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I think it would have been better to make Sam the narrator, and have him read Bilbo's part of the Red Book aloud to his children. That way flows better with The Lord of the Rings, as we saw Frodo hand Sam the book towards the end of the third film, and we also saw Sam's children. Establishing a connection between the Red Book and Sam's progeny would also flow better with Tolkien's writings, as they inherited it. Since Sean Astin is older now, it would make sense for him to play the older Sam – much more sense than it makes for the older Elijah Wood to be playing the younger Frodo. Maybe the second film could have ended with Sam saying goodbye to Elanor at the Grey Havens, and giving the Red Book into her keeping... but making Frodo the narrator means that these films, as a whole, will have to slot in somewhere in between the multiple endings of Return of the King – talk about awkward storytelling chronology!

Every thing you said, I agree with! Why Yoda, I am speaking like? Excited I must be!!

Nai hiruvalyë Valimar.


Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea


Jan 7 2011, 2:24pm

Post #59 of 379 (22978 views)
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Honest question [In reply to] Can't Post

IIRC from different conversations, you are not a big fan (if at all a fan) of Jackson's LOTR, especially when it comes to the script; what made you believe you would like these movies any better? It's being made by nearly the exact same people.

I would also say to "not count your eggs before they hatch" or something of the like, but you seem rather resolved. Perhaps your opinion of having interest in seeing it will change two years from now, when all the hype is afoot, and you feel 15 bucks (ugh 3D film tickets...) is not *that* bad, even if it slaughters your personal vision. Smile

Cheers, georgie.

My LiveJournal ~ My artwork and photography

NARF since age 8, when I refused to read the Hobbit because the cover looked boring and icky.


Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea


Jan 7 2011, 2:26pm

Post #60 of 379 (22453 views)
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We're Fans. Of course we're going to cry, moan, complain, and bicker about every little detail! What else did you expect? ;) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

My LiveJournal ~ My artwork and photography

NARF since age 8, when I refused to read the Hobbit because the cover looked boring and icky.


nobofthepony
Lorien


Jan 7 2011, 2:36pm

Post #61 of 379 (24129 views)
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The Hobbit is not a LOTR prequel, it's a sequel [In reply to] Can't Post

Looks like PJ and the team are viewing the Hobbit as a sequel to LOTR. And I'm alright with that. I believe Frodo will be laboring over the red book after his quest, as he writes The Lord of the Rings, perhaps looking to Bilbo's text for clues on how the ring came to the Baggins. They're probably bring back Elijah because Ian Holm is retired (?) and I can't say I mind seeing Frodo back. I guess I'm not a "purist" and think the movies will be improved by seeing old friends (as long as the cameos are done well.)

But if Elijah is reading the book after the fact, perhaps he is the one making the connections...(Mirkwood...Legolas would have been there!) I wouldn't mind a FEW cutaways to Frodo during the course of the films..but not too many. The last film can end with Frodo and Bilbo going to the Grey Havens (Bilbo can be played by Freeman under prosthetics?) and can focus on them saying goodbye...maybe with Bilbo repeating..."It's a dangerous business going out your front door...") I think it would be a great, emotional place to end the series, and would be better served if watched after LOTR as a sequel, not a prequel.


macfalk
Valinor


Jan 7 2011, 2:39pm

Post #62 of 379 (22300 views)
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Perhaps [In reply to] Can't Post

MrCere was wrong about this tidbit would not upset the most stubborn purists Cool

As everybody else said, we have not seen the finished product yet. In fact, we have seen nothing yet. In there is also the possibility of this being cut (like Arwen in Helm's deep)

But geordie, weren't you also the one who commanded us to "scupper these movies"?



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


jarrellj
Registered User

Jan 7 2011, 2:42pm

Post #63 of 379 (22502 views)
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This is NOT a shock... tho is is sad. [In reply to] Can't Post

I could not possibly agree more. But PJ has never been a respecter of Tolkien's written word so color me NOT surprised that he puts financial gain (by linking it with his big moneymaker) ahead of fidelity to Tolkien's work. I'm sure they'll find a zillion ways to rationalize it... like Faramir-the-evil-street-thug of the movies had to be that way for 'cinematic' reason. Won't make it more palatable to us 'purists' who are silly enough to favor Tolkien over Jackson. But it'll make money... and that IS their only real goal. Making money.

*shrug*


macfalk
Valinor


Jan 7 2011, 2:44pm

Post #64 of 379 (23391 views)
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PJ, Fran and Philippa Boyens are huge fans of Tolkien. [In reply to] Can't Post

That is the truth.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jan 7 2011, 2:47pm

Post #65 of 379 (21761 views)
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And let's not forget Guillermo del Toro [In reply to] Can't Post

who co-wrote the script and certainly would have removed this sequence if he thought it wasn't working.


dormouse
Half-elven

Jan 7 2011, 2:48pm

Post #66 of 379 (22875 views)
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Geordie.... come back.... ;-) [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it's fair to say that you already have a pretty low opinion of Peter Jackson's previous films, don't you, so It's not as if you were expecting very much. Supposing the film begins with Frodo looking at the Red Book or talking or listening to Bilbo and then swings back to the story of The Hobbit and tells it, pretty straight by the book, would that really be so dreadful? After all, Frodo must have heard the story from Bilbo, mustn't he?

Don't give up on it yet, they might still surprise you (pleasantly, of course!).


dormouse
Half-elven

Jan 7 2011, 2:56pm

Post #67 of 379 (39578 views)
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Sequel? How can it be.... [In reply to] Can't Post

... when the last film ended with Frodo and Bilbo sailing off from the Grey Havens. There's no concievable way they can follow on from that. If this is right and Frodo is to be in the opening sequence of the first Hobbit film we still don't know what the context will be. Will Bilbo be telling him the story before the book is written (so setting the scene some time before the action of Fellowship of the Ring). Or will they be in Rivendell? Or will Frodo be reading from the book after his own adventure but before he leaves Middle Earth? Or have they come up with some completely different scenario? Or will they change their minds about how to begin the film several times between now and 2012, so that what they're intending now might not happen at all in the final film?

The one thing The Hobbit cannot be is a sequel to Return of the King (unless we join them on the deck of the ship or in Aman!)


macfalk
Valinor


Jan 7 2011, 2:57pm

Post #68 of 379 (23528 views)
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I'm not so sure on GDT. [In reply to] Can't Post

GDT is a great chap which he shown here on the messsage boards but, I can recall that interview some years ago before being attatched to the project that he "hated hobbits, wizards and hairy feet and all that" or something similar, if someone can dig that interview up ( I think it was in connection with his movie Pan's labyrinth).

Maybe he changed his mind later on, but that's quite a statement.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Lindele
Gondor


Jan 7 2011, 3:00pm

Post #69 of 379 (22332 views)
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Every time I come on here [In reply to] Can't Post

(which is several times a day) all I see is whine whine whine!
I'm starting to think no one really wants this movie!!!


(This post was edited by Ataahua on Jan 7 2011, 7:55pm)


RaoulJ
Rivendell


Jan 7 2011, 3:04pm

Post #70 of 379 (24934 views)
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Is it sure that Frodo will experience the story through the book? [In reply to] Can't Post

Is it sure that Frodo will experience the story through the book? If I'm reading the post right TORn has seen the script and knows it for sure.

I am hoping actually that they haven't seen the script and they are making a guess with the Red Book. This because of strange timelines. The Book wasn't ready till Bilbo finished it in Rivendell. After the Quest for the Ring is done Frodo receives it and a few years later Frodo gives it to Sam. So between the destroying of the Ring and Frodo going to the Grey Havens he must have read it.
According to this news, that will be 'The Hobbit'; the reading of the Red Book by Frodo.

But that would be kind of strange.. It would me better (in my opinion) that the narration of 'The Hobbit' would be the first time Frodo hears the story... At the end of Lotr Frodo has heard the story (the Hobbit) a million times and it isn't new to him anymore. Bilbo even tells the little (Jackson) kids the story, so Frodo must've heard it before. There wouldn't be much excitement...

So wouldn't it make more sense that Bilbo is telling the story to (a younger) Frodo? Not reading it from his/a book? Frodo would be in awe of the awesomeness of the story...


macfalk
Valinor


Jan 7 2011, 3:07pm

Post #71 of 379 (23534 views)
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A bit too much complaining, yes // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jan 7 2011, 3:07pm

Post #72 of 379 (22472 views)
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The impression I got [In reply to] Can't Post

was that Frodo is reading the Red Book in Bag End, towards the end of The Return of the King. This would mean that the bookend scenes featuring Frodo chronologically take place after 99% of the events depicted in The Lord of the Rings have already occurred, which effectively makes them sequels to the trilogy. The little-used term for a new story taking place partway through an already-published one is 'interquel' – I don't much like the word, and since The Hobbit will be bookended by scenes which occur almost at the end of LotR (as opposed to, say, halfway through it), I thought the term 'sequel' was more fitting.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jan 7 2011, 3:13pm

Post #73 of 379 (21794 views)
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Since Frodo is back, Strider should make an appearance as well. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


macfalk
Valinor


Jan 7 2011, 3:15pm

Post #74 of 379 (21737 views)
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Boromir too // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Darkstone
Immortal


Jan 7 2011, 3:16pm

Post #75 of 379 (22069 views)
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If you think this is bad.... [In reply to] Can't Post

...just wait until it finally comes out.

******************************************
"The ring cannot be destroyed, Gimli, son of Gloin, by any craft that we here possess. The ring was made in the fires of Mount Doom. Only there can it be unmade. The ring must be taken deep into Mordor and cast back into the fiery chasm from whence it came. One of you must do this."

*crickets*

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