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Gimli'sBox
Gondor
Dec 15 2010, 1:59pm
Post #1 of 43
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Pick one actor/actress
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Name one actor/actress you wished would have been cast different in LOTR. I think most everybody was cast really well but, there's always that one that doesn't seem to work for you. Which one is it?
My personal choice would be Elrond. I don't know, he just didn't LOOK like what I thought he would. I thought he did good with his voice and everything but, sometimes it hard for me to get past how he looks. I don't have any idea who could have been better but, I think Pete could have found someone out in the wide world. Also, though it does seem like he worked well with the other actors on set and all that. Which I'm willing to sacrifice a little if the cast had a good time. Plus Pete it great on the other stuff, it's just a little thing I think about.
Roast chicken?!
You're taller. Who? You. Then what? Then me! I've always been taller than you. Pippin, everyone knows you're the short one. I'm the tall one. Please Merry. Your what? Three foot six at the most. Whereas I'm pushing three seven. Three eight! Three foot eight! You did something.
It's Latin. Loosely translated, it means... we cheat.
"Strange treasures in this fair world appear, strange all, and new to me." That is a poem by Thomas Traherne and I have absolutely no idea what it's about. But, when I was small I was made to learn it by heart so I don't see why you shouldn't suffer too.
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macfalk
Valinor
Dec 15 2010, 2:48pm
Post #2 of 43
(674 views)
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I have no complaints... would make no substitution! //
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The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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DrDeath153
Lorien
Dec 15 2010, 3:06pm
Post #3 of 43
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By and large i thought the films were cast very well- almost all actors had a 'look' i could buy into, and while the script let a couple of them down in terms of their personality's resemblance to their characters, almost all of them have made the cut into my mental version of middle-earth i pull from when reading the books.
For me it's a toss up between two of the actors and they're for two of the more significant parts who just never quite rung true in their parts.
The first is the most controversial i'd say- Sean Astin as Samwise. I don't know what it was about him exactly but i never really felt the empathy towards the character as i did in the book, or even other adaptations (such as Bill Nighy's gloriously against type performance in the radio version). It struck me as quite a disjointed and bumpy performance where he was either on the brink of beating the balls out of Gollum, acting a bit dopey or breaking down in tears- the range of reactions didn't seem to come from the same personality and made the Frodo, Sam and Gollum storyline in the latter films all a bit melodramatic. In the light of Elijah Wood's increasingly wobbly Frodo i would have preferred a more stoic or at least balanced Samwise. To put it a bit more entertainingly, if Sean Astin was playing Frodo's 'rock' then it was in the Paul Burrell sense of the word.
The other person i think was wrong for the part was Miranda Otto as Eowyn. Again, i found it quite difficult to reconcile the two extremes she played- both this wet-blanket of sobbing sentimentality, and then this cold, po-faced hard-nut. She didn't capture Eowyn's sense of spunk (excuse the expression, it's about to get worse)- that cock-sure tomboy-ness that demands to be taken on equal terms with the best of the men. There was a scene where she and Aragorn are getting ready to leave for dunharrow which actually has a retake or a redub from one in a lordoftherings.net featurette which is far more convincing but for some reason that version never made it into the film so there is evidence that Miranda Otto could have played the character more convincingly, but either in direction or by personal choice they went for a more vulnerable take which did the character no favours. In the light of the knowledge that Uma Thurman was offered the part then i do wonder if her casting would have produced a more powerful and interesting character both in terms of the actress's approach and the differences in direction they would be given by Peter Jackson.
So yes, those are my candidates. Of the two i think Sean Astin is the more irredeemable since i at least have evidence that Miranda Otto could have played the part better had she been given a different style of direction, but i do not have the 'perfect' replacement for Sean so i can't say with any real certainty who could have played the part better (then again i can't be biased against him in favour of another either, i just know he wasn't right).
Dr Death
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Evernight
Rivendell
Dec 15 2010, 4:38pm
Post #4 of 43
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Whenever I read The Silmarillion or LOTR I picture both Luthien and Arwen as looking like Jennifer Connelly. Even though I think Liv Tyler is beautiful, for me she doesn't have the elvish ethereal beauty I see in Jennifer Connelly (as she was ten years ago, at the time of filming LOTR).
Therefore, I think Connelly would've been better suited to play Arwen in the films.
In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit...
(This post was edited by Evernight on Dec 15 2010, 4:39pm)
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Junesong
Rohan
Dec 15 2010, 6:57pm
Post #5 of 43
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I would recast Saruman. I know Christopher Lee is pretty popular on these boards (judging by how many people seem to be willing to do anything scientifically possible to bring him back for The Hobbit movies) but I never liked the casting.
Christopher Lee has a powerful voice - famously - and he's also an iconic villain in film history but that's just not what I loved about Saruman in the book.
I always pictured Saruman as being less physically intimidating and more crafty... the power in his voice referring more to it's persuasion and musical quality and less to it's *booming* quality.
So, maybe someone like Jeremy Irons - or to fit the cast of lesser knowns - someone like Michael Byrne.
Michael Byrne's imdb link is: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0126250/
But he's in the latest potter, played the main nazi villain in Last Crusade and the creepy British guard in Braveheart.
"Tim... Canterbury... Canterbury Tales... Chaucer... Shakespeare."
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Darkstone
Immortal
Dec 15 2010, 7:35pm
Post #6 of 43
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Personally I thought it would have been great if Ian McKellen had played both Gandalf and Saruman.
******************************************
Not all who wander are lost.
(But that's the way to bet.)
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Gimli'sBox
Gondor
Dec 15 2010, 7:52pm
Post #7 of 43
(641 views)
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Wow, I'm surprised at the recasting! Some of these I would never guessed.//
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Roast chicken?!
You're taller. Who? You. Then what? Then me! I've always been taller than you. Pippin, everyone knows you're the short one. I'm the tall one. Please Merry. Your what? Three foot six at the most. Whereas I'm pushing three seven. Three eight! Three foot eight! You did something.
It's Latin. Loosely translated, it means... we cheat.
"Strange treasures in this fair world appear, strange all, and new to me." That is a poem by Thomas Traherne and I have absolutely no idea what it's about. But, when I was small I was made to learn it by heart so I don't see why you shouldn't suffer too.
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Darkstone
Immortal
Dec 15 2010, 7:56pm
Post #8 of 43
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I've always thought Clint Eastwood would have been better. McKellen is just too round. Gandalf should be pointy, like Eastwood.
******************************************
Not all who wander are lost.
(But that's the way to bet.)
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Darkstone
Immortal
Dec 15 2010, 8:00pm
Post #9 of 43
(639 views)
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The only two roles I thought perfectly cast were Eowyn and Arwen. I thought Liv Tyler was the only believable Elf in the entire trilogy. All the other Elves acted like Vulcans. Elves are not Vulcans!
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Not all who wander are lost.
(But that's the way to bet.)
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Gimli'sBox
Gondor
Dec 15 2010, 8:09pm
Post #10 of 43
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You know, that's funny because in my not so humble opinion, I think Ian was one of the very best that was cast for LOTR.//
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Roast chicken?!
You're taller. Who? You. Then what? Then me! I've always been taller than you. Pippin, everyone knows you're the short one. I'm the tall one. Please Merry. Your what? Three foot six at the most. Whereas I'm pushing three seven. Three eight! Three foot eight! You did something.
It's Latin. Loosely translated, it means... we cheat.
"Strange treasures in this fair world appear, strange all, and new to me." That is a poem by Thomas Traherne and I have absolutely no idea what it's about. But, when I was small I was made to learn it by heart so I don't see why you shouldn't suffer too.
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Darkstone
Immortal
Dec 15 2010, 8:28pm
Post #11 of 43
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I found McKellen's huggy-huggy Dances-With-Hobbits a distinct antithesis to the book's 'If you don't let me in, Frodo, I shall blow your door right down your hole and out through the hill.' Admittedly McKellen's Gandalf the White showed a spark of resemblance, albeit a bit too late, when he whacked the Steward. Now there's the Gandalf I know and love! But by then everyone had been so conditioned by McKellen's kindly grandfather portrayal that some actually protested that the Steward-Whacking was out of character! Woof!
******************************************
Not all who wander are lost.
(But that's the way to bet.)
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Gimli'sBox
Gondor
Dec 15 2010, 8:41pm
Post #12 of 43
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He's got a great voice. I like the very way he walks. I love how he treats Pip. I like how he has a soft side for the Hobbits but, when I comes time to do something he'll just do it. Maybe it comes across as a hidden power and thats what I like. "Authority is not given you to deny the return of the king, Steward!"
Roast chicken?!
You're taller. Who? You. Then what? Then me! I've always been taller than you. Pippin, everyone knows you're the short one. I'm the tall one. Please Merry. Your what? Three foot six at the most. Whereas I'm pushing three seven. Three eight! Three foot eight! You did something.
It's Latin. Loosely translated, it means... we cheat.
"Strange treasures in this fair world appear, strange all, and new to me." That is a poem by Thomas Traherne and I have absolutely no idea what it's about. But, when I was small I was made to learn it by heart so I don't see why you shouldn't suffer too.
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The Party Tree
Lorien
Dec 15 2010, 9:27pm
Post #13 of 43
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I have a feeling this is a pretty unpopular opinion, but...
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I couldn't feel Viggo as Aragorn. I know he's often praised for having gotten so "into character", but I always feel as though I'm looking at Viggo though whole time, not Strider or Aragorn.
Part of it, I think, has to do with the way the wrote him differently for the movies. But I don't think the movies needed a vulnerable, "more realistic" Aragorn.
Anyway, I just think that Viggo's performance lacks the "romantic hero" aspect from the books, and I personally don't really think he fit the character. My folks were actually devastated to find out that Sean Bean was cast as Boromir and not Aragorn...hm...
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Kangi Ska
Half-elven
Dec 16 2010, 3:18am
Post #14 of 43
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Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.
At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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Elentari03
Rivendell
Dec 16 2010, 3:25am
Post #16 of 43
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That role annoys me every time I watch the movies. I am not sure if it was Wenham's acting or the way the part was written. Based on the books I imagined him as much more of a presence, similar to Sean Bean's Boromir. In the movies he is so wimpy, almost pathetic, yet at the same time overly dramatic/conflicted. Not at all accurate to the book.
Regarding Sean Astin, he did a good job as Sam, but I wish he had had a better coach for his accent. It is downright comical at times. 
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The Party Tree
Lorien
Dec 16 2010, 3:39am
Post #17 of 43
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I'm of the opinion that it was the writing.
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Faramir in the books is so much more subtle and careful; he's always one step ahead of everyone else in terms of reasoning, and he would NEVER have information beaten out of Gollum.
and haha I love Sean's accent what are you talking about lol
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Arwen Skywalker
Lorien
Dec 16 2010, 4:28am
Post #18 of 43
(607 views)
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Watch "The Wizard's Pupil" again
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Faramir remains composed when taking a verbal beating from dear old Dad. Despite being scared like anyone else would be in that situation, Faramir somehow has the guts to tell him that he would not use the Ring and that Boromir would have taken it for himself. Before you call him wimpy, I'd like to know whether you'd be able to do same with someone yelling at you. You should also take note that unlike Boromir, Faramir doesn't lose it when Frodo refuses to give him the Ring. Shouldn't that tell you something about which brother has more emotional strength?
Regarding presence, I found it quieter than Boromir's but the way he carried himself when he first questioned Frodo made me believe him as a captain.
However, I agree with Party Tree that it made no sense for Faramir to condone the beating of Gollum. I know they needed a reason for Smeagol to go bad but when what we see onscreen doesn't tell us why the Rangers did it, that makes Jack Bauer look like a Boy Scout. Even if you don't take morals into account, it just seems incredibly stupid to torture someone before a question even leaves your mouth.
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Junesong
Rohan
Dec 16 2010, 5:31am
Post #19 of 43
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If I can also say my favorite cast member...
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The more I watch the Extended Edition Appendices the more I love the casting of Andy Serkis. He literally made a role for himself, turning a voice job into a revolutionary performance that literally changed movie making.*
Anyway - the more I think about the Lord of the Rings cast the more I love Andy Serkis. He's a class act.
Next time you watch The Return of the King, watch Andy Serkis' face as Smeagol the very first time he ever sees the ring (when he comes up behind Deagol). He might be the best actor in the whole trilogy.
*Let's not forget the animators as well. They were just as brilliant!
Who is your favorite cast member?
"Tim... Canterbury... Canterbury Tales... Chaucer... Shakespeare."
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thehobbitftw
Rivendell
Dec 16 2010, 8:30am
Post #20 of 43
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Elrond didn;t quite scream elf king to me.
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He seemed more like a convection nerd i wish he were stronger looking is all i;'m saying.
aif i were to cast someone as elronf it would have been Gerald Butler now that's a cool Elrond. ;)
Of course i'm just joking and think that Hugo is an okay Elrond but stillthink they could have cast better.
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Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan
Dec 16 2010, 9:58am
Post #21 of 43
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Whenever I read The Silmarillion or LOTR I picture both Luthien and Arwen as looking like Jennifer Connelly. Even though I think Liv Tyler is beautiful, for me she doesn't have the elvish ethereal beauty I see in Jennifer Connelly (as she was ten years ago, at the time of filming LOTR).
Therefore, I think Connelly would've been better suited to play Arwen in the films.
She would have been great in the role!
Hopefully she gets snuck into the hobbit... 
(This post was edited by entmaiden on Dec 16 2010, 1:40pm)
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DrDeath153
Lorien
Dec 16 2010, 1:54pm
Post #22 of 43
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A response to some of your suggestions
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I would recast Saruman. I know Christopher Lee is pretty popular on these boards (judging by how many people seem to be willing to do anything scientifically possible to bring him back for The Hobbit movies) but I never liked the casting.
Christopher Lee has a powerful voice - famously - and he's also an iconic villain in film history but that's just not what I loved about Saruman in the book.
I always pictured Saruman as being less physically intimidating and more crafty... the power in his voice referring more to it's persuasion and musical quality and less to it's *booming* quality.
I can see your argument on that count- perhaps Christopher Lee's steam-train like baritone was not quite as subtle as his all powerful voice is described in the book, but on all other counts Christopher Lee excelled. I love the stature of the guy- he's not some crouched misshapen old warlock but a pillar of wisdom and authority, and while a more persuasive tone might have been created possibly digitally, his vocal stature really did convey all the pride and grandeur of a man seeking to become 'a power'. Christopher Lee's Saruman was a far more convincing villain than they ever managed to make Sauron and as much as i love Micheal Byrne who is a fine actor and rather more subtle than Christopher Lee, i'm very glad we have the latter's Saruman.
I found McKellen's huggy-huggy Dances-With-Hobbits a distinct antithesis to the book's 'If you don't let me in, Frodo, I shall blow your door right down your hole and out through the hill.' Admittedly McKellen's Gandalf the White showed a spark of resemblance, albeit a bit too late, when he whacked the Steward.
Another interesting choice but i can't agree with your summation of the character. In fact i found Ian McKellen's Gandalf the White to be his weaker performance, where he became almost John McClane with a beard spouting all these battering-ram statements 'Authority is not given to you Steward to deny the return of the king', and 'So passes Denethor, son of Ecthelion' between beating him with his stick- it's all a bit too 'Yippy-kai-yay, Motherf***er' for my liking.
My own impression of Gandalf really comes from the humour he uses, quite frequently inappropriately. Certainly that quote you mention strikes me as being said rather tongue in cheek-ly- a gentle threat to save time. There's a lot of those in his dialogue in the book. Even after his reincarnation as Gandalf the White he's very funny (in the book)- one of the first things he says 'i have forgotten much i had remembered and remembered much i had forgotten' is a characteristic piece of wordplay which puts some quite scary implications across in a fun way and his dealings while in Minas Tirith are hilarious- passing through the gates at high speed and yelling back to the guards who are on high alert waiting for the greatest attack on their country to commence 'Whatever betides you have come to the end of Gondor as you have known it!' it's almost Socratic in it's disdain for the comforts of stability. His dealings with Denethor are equally entertaining, the kind of 'punch and judy' style of debate you see at prime-minister's questions, two terrible old men each flinging rhetoric at each other- it's one of my favourite bits of the book- you get a whole sense of this history of 'professional' rivalry between them.
That said, i have to admit Ian McKellen isn't the best Gandalf that's been played. He's brilliant, couldn't ask for more, but Micheal Horden in the 1981 radio version takes the prize for me. He really did capture the balance between the dour and the playful elements of Gandalf's personality and i love it.
I couldn't feel Viggo as Aragorn. I know he's often praised for having gotten so "into character", but I always feel as though I'm looking at Viggo though whole time, not Strider or Aragorn.
Part of it, I think, has to do with the way the wrote him differently for the movies. But I don't think the movies needed a vulnerable, "more realistic" Aragorn.
Anyway, I just think that Viggo's performance lacks the "romantic hero" aspect from the books, and I personally don't really think he fit the character. My folks were actually devastated to find out that Sean Bean was cast as Boromir and not Aragorn...hm..
Again, i can see the argument here. I think the films did overplay the self-doubt and vulnerability of the character and this severely weakened Aragorn to the point that he never really does take up responsibility. The way the character was adapted was rather luke-warm. In addition to that his voice never really had any authority to it either- his accent slips a bit early on during the 'you draw far too much attention to yourself mr underhill' and his speech before the black gates falls a bit flat with his nasal delivery. That said, i don't think there is anyone in the cast who so embodied their character as Viggo Mortensen did Aragorn - in terms of his appearance, his body-language, the complete sincerity of the performance with the wistful romantic sensibility and his full embracing of a character he didn't even know before signing up, it certainly earned his place. You could argue there are alternatives- Daniel Day Lewis was approached and declined, and Liam Neeson or Gabriel Byrne could perhaps have done a decent Aragorn, but Viggo Mortensen was the revelation of the films and came up with an Aragorn that i think has pretty universally won over hearts and minds (except yours that is )
Dr Death
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Bound
Rohan
Dec 16 2010, 3:47pm
Post #23 of 43
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I think it goes with out saying the when you translate a book to film, there is always going to be some character that's not lived up to your own personal expectations. After all a movie is really just one man or woman’s ( the director) view on things.
I wouldn't fault to many of the actors, I thought the made the roles their own for the most part. I learnt to hate Orlando Bloom as the movies went by, his character wasn't a lyrical as I pictured him and he essentially became a heartthrob hero. His character came out with some pointless dialogue - and for the most part the guy cant act - he's very wooden.
But for me the main actor that bothered me was Sean Astin. While in some ways he was a good Sam… in most ways he just annoyed me. I think he took the role to seriously or had a puffed up ego. He felt like he thought he was more important that he was or something. And then there his odd moments where is American accent were so obvious... "do you wana know what happened to Boromiiiiiiiiiiiiiiir"
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The Party Tree
Lorien
Dec 16 2010, 5:13pm
Post #24 of 43
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Is that really evident in his performance?
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I certainly think you're right that Sean Astin takes himself a bit too seriously, but I wouldn't have imagined that if I hadn't seen him outside of the role.
And what do you mean by "took the role too seriously"? Sam is (quite obviously) a key character and I don't understand why it would be bad to take any role in these movies seriously. And anyone who's seen the Bakshi version of LotR knows that not taking Sam seriously as a character can have rather dismaying results.
(This post was edited by The Party Tree on Dec 16 2010, 5:14pm)
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weaver
Half-elven
Dec 16 2010, 5:35pm
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I think the cast was great at portraying the aspects of the characters that were emphasized...
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I have no problems with any of the cast -- but I don't think any of them gave us "all" of any character in the book. We see a lot of Aragorn's sensitive side, less of his "kingly" demeanor; more of Gandalf's heart and less of his bluster, more of Frodo the idealist and less of Frodo the saint, more of Boromir the patriot and less of Boromir the leader, etc. These are the aspects of the characters, and the story, that Jackson and company chose to present. For me, I liked they way they saw the story and felt they cast it properly to deliver on it in a grand way.
So I'm not sure another actor could have played Aragorn, the way Jackson and Viggo saw the character, as well as Viggo. He aced the role, and that's really how I feel about all of the actors we got.
To me, to properly answer your question, you'd have to talk about another interpretation of Aragorn or the rest of them, and then say what actor would best fit that description. If you wanted Galadrial to be more glamorous, or Eowyn to be more fiesty, or Aragorn to be more focused on gaining the throne, or Frodo to just be older, there are other actors who would have excelled in each of those aspects to the same degree, I am sure, that this cast did, providing they had a good script and a director who got the story as much as Jackson did. I don't know enough about actors to really comment on who those people would be, but I don't doubt that someone else could play any of these roles, and enhance our understanding and appreciation of all of them.
What I'd really like is a remake of LOTR -- so that we could see the story and characters through the eyes of another film team. It would be great fun to compare Aragorns, Frodos, and Eowyns, wouldn't it?
Weaver
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