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The Pro's and Con's of following a film in the making.
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Artanis
Rohan


Dec 11 2010, 9:48am

Post #1 of 35 (1077 views)
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The Pro's and Con's of following a film in the making. Can't Post

*quietly creeps in and hangs head in shame* Oh it has been so long since I've been to the forums and I've hesitated coming back, but it feels good! Cool

I have been trying to weight up the pros and cons of following a film in the making. I only saw/read LOTR for the first time about four years ago and it had such a profound impact on me that I haven't quite recovered from it yet (don't think I ever will!) Laugh

I joined TORn almost immediately and was overjoyed to see likeminded people and fairly bursting with excitement with the prospect of The Hobbit being made, I could hardly breathe during the PJ/GDT 'party' a couple of years ago!

But, all that aside, the question I have is this, what are the pros and cons of following a film as it is being made. If it has already been asked/discussed please delete this post and point me in the right direction Smile

I'm at a point now with The Hobbit that I wish I'd been at with LOTR, do I follow it or not? Now that it is here, now that the pieces are coming together, I'm not so sure I want to know all the details before I sit down in that cinema seat in a few years time.

Any thoughts?

Artanis


macfalk
Valinor


Dec 11 2010, 9:55am

Post #2 of 35 (691 views)
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Hmm [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, I have seen all the appendecies of all the EE's so many times, almost too many times - that the magic is almost lost in the LOTR films for me... I know almost how every shot was taken, what kind of trick they used, whether its a CG, miniature or mattepainting shot, real location or an indoor set location.... I can tell... it's something I lament and I wish I had not seen it. The "how do they do that?!" factor is almost gone, which is a sad thing. Now I can even spot the techniques used in other movies without even seeing the documentaries on them and spot out the minitature shots, etc.

I wish I had not seen it all, but at the same time, I don't think I could have lived with not seeing all the fantastic extra material... the great cast and the crew, and of course PJ running around bare-foot around the sets. Stuff like that.

I think I will follow this closely still after the "lost magic" experience... I'm just too curious! Laugh



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


lurtz2010
Rohan

Dec 11 2010, 10:59am

Post #3 of 35 (636 views)
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I've thought about this [In reply to] Can't Post

At the moment I think I'm coming on here too much. There is still 2 years to go until the first movie is out so I think that's plenty of time to decide how much I want to know before hand. I'll probably check this site all the time but after filming starts I don't want to know too much about the movie until the trailer comes out but I know I won't be able to help myself.
The Hobbit trailer... imagine that. Before LOTR came out I knew nothing compared to what I know now about this movie and I hope it doesn't ruin it any way.


JRandomRohirrim
Rohan


Dec 11 2010, 12:18pm

Post #4 of 35 (612 views)
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It also depends on how much time you have [In reply to] Can't Post

While I was aware of the shooting of LOTR (I remember reading the casting press release at work) in 1999, I was generally too busy to dig into it much. By 2002, I was less insanely busy and started to follow the pickup filming, post-production and TORN pretty closely.

I love behind-the-scenes info...if I'm marginally interested in the movie. However, when Jackson posted a lot of King Kong shooting info in 2004, I really didn't follow it that much because King King has never captured my imagination.

So, if you like the movie topic/actors, and you can find the information/photos, then I'd say, sure, follow it. The LOTR series is close to being my favorite; knowing a lot about the filming in no way interfered with my enjoyment of the flicks.


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Flagg
Tol Eressea


Dec 11 2010, 3:42pm

Post #5 of 35 (622 views)
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That's the way I feel [In reply to] Can't Post

when I watch any film. I'm constantly observing the type of shots the director is using, thinking about how the effects were achieved and paying attention to how good the actors' performances are. Especially when I'm watching old pre-CGI films, where the techniques used for effects can usually be deduced quite easily. It never really bothers me, though. I just find it interesting to examine how all these things come together.


KingofAncients
The Shire


Dec 11 2010, 4:00pm

Post #6 of 35 (582 views)
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I compare it to tracking a computer game in the making.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Honestly, I don't think it will have a negative impact on anyone's viewing experience if they follow production. For years I have tracked the development of particular PC games of interest, beginning with the first hint that something was coming. As a matter of fact, I actually spent over 4 years tracking the development of a WWII strategy game that my buddy and I found out about while we were still in highschool. The game ended up going through multiple fits and starts and was sidelined for two years and then miraculously like two years after we graduated college the game finally came out, under a different name.

I don't feel it ruined our gaming experience any, so I would say that I'm not worried about tracking The Hobbit. The reality is, you can track a game or a movie as close as you want for as long as you want but, in the end there will be plenty that the director will surprise you with in the theater.

"Stout men and lordly they are, and the Riders of Rohan look almost as boys beside them; for they are grim men of face, worn like weathered rocks for the most part, even as Aragorn himself; and they are silent."


RosieLass
Valinor


Dec 11 2010, 4:06pm

Post #7 of 35 (601 views)
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I didn't deliberately go looking for LOTR news. [In reply to] Can't Post

And just made do with what people posted about here on the forums.

That worked well for me.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Magpie
Immortal


Dec 11 2010, 4:19pm

Post #8 of 35 (609 views)
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It's not just details... [In reply to] Can't Post

I entered the online world after FOTR and before TTT. I decided fairly quickly I did not want to be overly spoiled. That is, I didn't mind learning that a certain actor had been cast or seeing general well known scenes from the book. But I was bummed to hear Haldir was killed before I saw TTT.

But, even though I was online for TTT and ROTK, I was interacting with a relatively small community and we were all similar in temperament. That is, we were intelligent, thoughtful, funny, and respectful towards each other and when disagreements arose... we were more interested in learning what motivated the thinking of others than we were defending our own.

I always felt I missed out the excitement of interacting with other fans (on a larger scale) during the development of LOTR. But having dipped my toes into fan conversations on The Hobbit, I've come to feel blessed I did it on my own with my own small group of friends. We loved LOTR and we loved talking about it. There is way too much angsting, arguing, drama, demanding, attitudes, tones, and disagreeable interactions involved with pre-Hobbit talk. IMO, most people are intent on pushing and defending their own opinions and have no interest in openly considering what another person thinks. I suppose there are many who enjoy a good debate and feel like an argument is time well spent. I'm not one of those. I don't mind disagreements. I do mind disagreeable behavior while disagreeing. I love discussing - with all it's agreements and disagreements - with people and, when it comes time to part, wanting to hug them thinking they are the best people in the world and I love spending time with them. These are people who have listened to what everyone has to say. Before taking offense or issue with something said, they check to insure they've understood what someone means. They think well of others and let them prove themselves less than worthy (should that be the case) rather than assuming the worst and reacting against that. They explain their own opinion in a way that helps others see how they came to have it. They value diversity of thought and give as much weight to the minority opinion as the majority. I come out of those conversations feeling I not only understand my own position better but I have new insight into other ways of looking at something.

If people are taking a tone with me, or patronizing me, or yelling at me, or dismissing me, or just refusing to accept any opinion but their own as valid... trust me, I don't feel like hugging them when we part. In fact, I tend to avoid their corner of the room the next social event we attend because interaction isn't pleasant.

Additionally, I'm just not that invested in intense critique of various fine points of the film's production. I came into LOTR hoping with all my heart they didn't screw it up. They didn't. I don't agree with everything in the movies but they didn't screw it up. They managed just fine without any input from me about every facet of film production. I think, until there's a movie, I won't find much I want to talk about. It doesn't help that I love LOTR about 15 times more than The Hobbit.

So, I dip into the forum trying to catch news I might miss. But it doesn't take long to bump into those contentious debates that remind me why I don't want to spend tons of time here.



LOTR soundtrack website ~ June 2010 : ROTK Lyrics Update!
magpie avatar gallery ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


dormouse
Half-elven

Dec 11 2010, 4:58pm

Post #9 of 35 (577 views)
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It's a good question.... [In reply to] Can't Post

... a really good question, and I'm not sure that I know the answer. At the moment I keep coming back here because I want to know what's happening. But knowing the details of the film before I see it - that's something else. I feel a bit like a child on a Christmas present hunt. Searching the cupboards and drawers and peering under the beds when your Mum and Dad weren't looking was fun, and so exciting when you thought you'd found something. But I never wanted to go further than that first, tantalising rustle of paper. I never wanted to see what the presents were until the day.

So with 'The Hobbit' - the plot of the book, of course, I know, but they will make changes and additions and I don't want details of those in advance, though I can't resist speculating about them. I like coming here and talking to people who are as interested as I am - it's good to share an interest with so many others, all round the world. I just hope we don't find out too many details. Enough to tantalise, not enough to spoil - like the presents!


Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea


Dec 11 2010, 5:16pm

Post #10 of 35 (556 views)
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It doesn't bother me too much [In reply to] Can't Post

Even in the digital age, where everyone has a digital camera, we *still* won't see everything that the films will offer, because they'll film in remote locations and I don't see the crew members getting pictures simply for the sake of the internet- they'd likely lose their jobs if they posted such things.

So unless the script somehow gets leaked online- and if it does, I won't read it- I don't see myself being spoiled too much by production to not enjoy the films. And it's the field I want to make a career in, so it's a bit of a learning experience for me, too :D

My LiveJournal ~ My artwork and photography

NARF since age 8, when I refused to read the Hobbit because the cover looked boring and icky.


nobofthepony
Lorien


Dec 11 2010, 5:47pm

Post #11 of 35 (554 views)
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the story transcends it all [In reply to] Can't Post

Personally, I'm going to follow the making of the Hobbit...everything short of a leaked script. I might eavesdrop on second hand conversations about a leaked script though. The way I look at it, The Hobbit was the first story to truly captivate me as a kid. I didn't follow the making of LOTR and I feel like I missed out. Through the LOTR experience I became fans not only of the movies, but the director and production that would take on such an audacious feat in the first place. So I want to follow it real time what they're up to. If I get spoiled at a few details, that will give me time to process major story changes so it doesn't ruin the experience of seeing the movie for the first time. The way I see it, Tolkien's story is so inexhaustably great, even if I know some things going in, I will still be swept away to Middle Earth. And following the production gives me something to do in the meantime!


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Dec 11 2010, 6:35pm

Post #12 of 35 (575 views)
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What I learned from following the making of LOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

is that viewing every still image and video that comes out the 'making of' process can rob some of the magic of discovery from the film ("Oh, there's the shaft of blue-white light onto Balin's tomb that I saw six months ago"), while not being prepared for big changes ("What do you mean, 'I'll bring my father a mighty gift'???") can rip me right out of the film.

So I'll do with The Hobbit what I did for ROTK: I'll read up on all the text reports but I'll save any videos and most photo links (I can't be utterly purist about this) until I've seen the movies.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Eruwestial37
Rohan

Dec 11 2010, 10:31pm

Post #13 of 35 (546 views)
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I'm wondering too [In reply to] Can't Post

I remember being all consumed by the making-of books when Star Wars came out and having those films diminished after I'd read them. The same thing happened with LOTR's EE's extras.
Yes, I love knowing that they are filming and that my favorites will be in The Hobbit. I'm not compelled to learn every little detail, or even the broader revelations. Once I've seen TH 30 times in the theatre, THEN I'll come back to read the details.Wink

I want magic in December of 2012 and I do think it'll be spoiled if I delve too greedily and too deeply here.

I'm also with Weaver regarding the sometimes snarky tones in the discussions. I like a gathering of friends, not competitors. That leaves me cold.

http://www.nanowrimo.org/widget/LiveParticipant/727338.png


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Dec 12 2010, 3:39am

Post #14 of 35 (561 views)
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Speaking for myself, and I'm sure many others [In reply to] Can't Post

your visits and posts at "The Hobbit Board" are always appreciated. I understand where you are coming from though... there is a rager in progress over there as we speak.Angelic

As to the original question? I am immune to spoilers. When I ask people about films they have seen that I haven't seen, I beg them to tell me about major plot twists and the ending. Often they don't want to tell me because they are spoiler sensitive themselves. But then I insist and they spill. Weird huh?


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Dec 12 2010, 3:44am)


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Dec 12 2010, 1:53pm

Post #15 of 35 (480 views)
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*squeeee* You're Back! :D [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm so happy that you've decided to come out to play again! It's never too late or a bad idea to hang out on TORn :D *high five*

Before reading the other posts, I have to say that this has been a plaguing question for many sibbies. It really comes down to following your own gut on how much information you want to have... with the full knowledge (at this point anyway) that it's mostly speculation. Much of the casting is set, and the lineup is looking AWESOME! But, personally, I can't wait to hear and see the progress! I came in on the prepping of LotR about 4 months before the release, and it was a Godsend for me at the time. I clung to every morsel we were given and escaped into the promise of an awesome adaptation and the discovery of the world I've known so well. Even with all of the early information, I was still completely blown away. Seriously, I staggered from the theatre feeling completely disconnected from reality. I sat in the parking lot and cried... so overwhelmed.

I'm coming at The Hobbit the same way. I'm counting on being blown away again... feeling that discovery and enchantment again... seeing old friends on the screen again.

BUT... I have to admit that I'm reserving watching the players in other films/programs. Martin Freeman I know from a couple of viewings of past works, but I'm not going to watch him in anything else until he wakes Bilbo in the films. I want him to be Bilbo and not be distracted by a relationship with other films. So, in a way, I really am avoiding following some of the facets of the film... but it's about the actors and not how the adptation is coming together.

Follow your gut, Artanis! The beauty of Jackson's films and Tolkien's stories are how personal they are to each of us. There's not right or wrong way to enjoy them :) Maybe shy away from the preparation of the films for now, then... if you can't stand it anymore... you can dive in to past posts/articles/interviews and have yourself a little geek-fest!! *contemplates* Actually... that sounds kinda fun!!! *twitch*

Welcome back! and GOOD LUCK on your fortitude! ;)

sample

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I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.



TORn's Observations Lists
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tennie75
Lorien


Dec 12 2010, 5:04pm

Post #16 of 35 (460 views)
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how I did it [In reply to] Can't Post

I found TORn before LOTR came out - it was actually around the beginning of filming because I remember the Stuart Townsend/Viggo Mortenson switch. I only read the front page though, never came to the message boards. Don't know why. I was eager for all the spy reports and happy to read press releases etc. I was glad to be warned of the possiblity of XenArwen - since that would have been just too too much to be surprised with (and grateful it didn't happen). As the time came closer to ROTK's release, I distanced myself from discussions. I most emphatically did NOT want to know how the movie ended. If there had been any other ending than Sam saying "Well, I'm back", I don't know what I would have done. Been very very disappointed, to say the least.

This time around I will most likely continue to read the front page for spy reports, and come here to Main for the games. Those are a lot of fun.

I most likely won't visit The Hobbit board very often. Getting into arguments is such a waste of time, and will have no affect on the production of TH nor any relevance to my life.

Time will tell - you can cut back your exposure at first and see if you are comfortable to bumping up to the next level. Everyone has their own comfort level as to how much pre-production information they are willing to know about.

******************************************
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.


Patty
Immortal


Dec 12 2010, 5:19pm

Post #17 of 35 (462 views)
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With Fellowship... [In reply to] Can't Post

I searched for any drop of info I could get. With the other two, I looked for info for the theatricals, but whenever any info about the upcoming EE scenes I avoided those spoilers until the DVD EE actually came out.

Permanent address: Into the West

Must. Have. The Precious! Give us the LotR EE Blu-ray Ultimate Box Set!



AlatarVinyamar
Lorien

Dec 12 2010, 6:38pm

Post #18 of 35 (487 views)
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You speak for me also Magpie [In reply to] Can't Post

I was a huge Tolkien fan prior to the Movies and always wanted a like minded group to discuss. Initially I went on the the newsgroups back in the mid 90's, alt.fan.tolkien and rec.arts.books.tolkien I think they were. But as you pointed out, the "discussions" there were far from civil, and tended to drift into "Well you can think what you like but you're wrong and I'm right". For me personally it hit an absolute low when Michael Martinez and David Salo were going at it hammer and tongs about the Balrogs' "wings". I gave up on intelligent, civil discourse about Tolkien online.

When I heard the movies were being made, I ventured back online. I visited TORN and TORC daily, as well as Council of Elrond and Imladris. I absolutely spoiled myself rotten for the movies, but I didn't take part in the rabid arguments and avoided the fora unless there was a spy report or early preview. I went back to posting on TORC after RotK, when most of the fangurrl stuff had died down and all the crazy psychopathic fervour over Arwen at Hems Deep and Ring on a Plinth was long forgotten. By then it had become a nice cosy spot for fans to kick back and discuss in a more lighthearted way. Nowadays I'm mostly on Voronwe's site "The Hall of Fire".

I came back here for Hobbit news, since TORC is a much quieter site these days, but like Magpie, I've been finding the strident posting styles here a bit offputting. While I'm not a huge fan of over-moderation I'd prefer a little more here on occasion. If the aggressive arguing continues to ramp up as more rumours come in about Itaril and Legolas/Bard etc I'll probably leave again and just stick to the front page for news. I have no interest in reading the rantings of those who are convinced of their own infallibility.

But lets hope it doesn't come to that. Wink


Magpie
Immortal


Dec 12 2010, 8:20pm

Post #19 of 35 (468 views)
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one tweak of a fine point. [In reply to] Can't Post

I ended my post by saying, "But it doesn't take long to bump into those contentious debates that remind me why I don't want to spend tons of time here." This thread was originally posted on The Hobbit - movie board and 'here' refers to The Hobbit - movie board. Not to TORn. There must be something particular about speculations because the rancorous debates are not found on other boards here (well, I can't really speak for the RR because I don't hang there). I think there are a lot of tremendous people on these boards that I have great fondness for and I am able to find plenty to talk about on boards other than The Hobbit - movie board.


LOTR soundtrack website ~ June 2010 : ROTK Lyrics Update!
magpie avatar gallery ~ Torn Image Posting Guide

(This post was edited by Magpie on Dec 12 2010, 8:22pm)


Artanis
Rohan


Dec 12 2010, 9:06pm

Post #20 of 35 (455 views)
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*High Five* back at you! :-D [In reply to] Can't Post

Visiting the forums is like sitting down in my favourite little corner on my most comfortable chair, sipping the most delightful drink (with book in hand of course!) Cool

I loved what you wrote about how you felt when you came out of the cinema. Oh, I remember my dad saying to me how he cried at the end of FOTR whilst he sat in the cinema. At the time I was oblivious to what all the fuss was about and thought it rather odd that my *DAD* would be crying at a film! Needless to say, but *now* I love the fact that he did and wasn't embarrased to tell me either. Cool

Artanis


Artanis
Rohan


Dec 12 2010, 9:16pm

Post #21 of 35 (450 views)
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Magpie [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh my! It has obviously been a very long time since I visited TORn and The Hobbit board as 'contentious debates' is definitely not what I'd want to come here and take part in!!! Crazy Thanks for the warning, I shall proceed with caution over there!

The one thing I loved when I first came here was the fact that having just had Middle-earth's world open up to me, I was so glad to find a bunch of people (who were as crazy about it as me!!! Tongue) who had a common love for all things Tolkien, his marvelous literature aswell as the movies which are stunning. It's a little like Lewis' remark about reading, 'We read to know we're not alone'. Only its 'We visit to TORn to know we're not alone!', thats how I felt anyway.Wink

So, yes arguing and the like is not for me at all!! I just love Tolkien Blush

Artanis


Artanis
Rohan


Dec 12 2010, 9:18pm

Post #22 of 35 (457 views)
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Oh thankyou! [In reply to] Can't Post

I have LOVED reading each and every one of your thoughts. They have all been very helpful and exactly what I was hoping for to help me decide how best to follow the making of The Hobbit. Wonderful points and ideas and warnings, thanks so much for coming to my rescue Cool

Artanis


Rosie-with-the-ribbons
Forum Admin / Moderator


Dec 13 2010, 1:27pm

Post #23 of 35 (409 views)
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Various [In reply to] Can't Post

What I like is the excitement, finding out who will be in the movie, where they will be filming and maybe in advance knowing what they are filming.

I want to know everything in advance, so I don't want to read a script or see pictures of almost every scene that will be in the movie. But a few set pictures or small hints, that I do like.

What I like about The Hobbit, one of the reasons we are here, is the sharing of what I would like to see with people who know what I'm talking about and I don't have to explain the entire story when I just want to describe one character.
What I don't like, at the moment, is the "nagging and arguing" about every single little point that might be or might not be in the movie. I started in the Hobbit section with enthousiasm when the green light came through, but at the moment I just quickly read the new posts and some I don't even open anymore. The discussions about anything talking or not, if this or that will be in there, if this or that actor would have been better. I really don't care. I think the director and the other people involved really know what they are doing and will make the best movie possible.



FantasyFan
Rohan


Dec 13 2010, 4:37pm

Post #24 of 35 (422 views)
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It's a matter of personal style [In reply to] Can't Post

I came to TORn after FOTR was out but before TTT. But I had seen some advance publicity before FOTR, and I was glad I had. I don't want every little scene spoiled for me in advance, but I needed to know about any major changes from the plot. Tom Bombadil being excised didn't bother me, but it would have thrown me out of the movie experience to not know about it in advance ("Wait, what? They're at Bree already? What about the Barrow-wight? Where is Merry going to get his sword?") If I had not seen anything, and went into ROTK not knowing that the Scouring of the Shire had been cut, I would have been very upset. As it was, I had time to adjust to that, and to the Frodo/Sam-go-home scene, and the movie was thoroughly enjoyable for me. I loved the surprises that were left (like the wordless Green Dragon scene) and have watched the making-of documentaries many times since - they add to, not detract from, my enjoyment.


"That is one thing that Men call 'hope.' Amdir we call it, 'looking up.' But there is another which is founded deeper. Estel we call it, that is 'trust.' It is not defeated by the ways of the world, for it does not come from experience, but from our nature and First Being. If we are indeed the Eruhin, the Children of the One, then He will not suffer Himself to be deprived of His own, not by any enemy, not even by ourselves. This is the last foundation of estel, which we keep even when we contemplate the End. Of all His designs the issue must be for His children's joy."
Finrod, Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth, HoME X Morgoth's Ring



Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Dec 13 2010, 6:47pm

Post #25 of 35 (424 views)
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Regarding the comments [In reply to] Can't Post

about the atmosphere on Movie: Hobbit, the Admins have discussed this and posted this message.

Thank you for the feedback you have given here.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories

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