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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
TORN EXCLUSIVE: Cate Blanchett, Ken Stott, Sylvester McCoy, Mikael Persbrandt join cast of Peter Jackson’s ‘The Hobbit’
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Bound
Rohan


Dec 9 2010, 7:16am

Post #126 of 146 (6669 views)
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Also... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think I remember John Howe and Alan Lee both saying that after working on lord of the rings they'd have to re-think the way they designed Dwarfs. It was working on the movies that the square motifs appeared.


DrDeath153
Lorien

Dec 9 2010, 12:30pm

Post #127 of 146 (5516 views)
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I don't really see your point. [In reply to] Can't Post

If we assume that the actors playing dwarves are going to be buried under a similar amount of prosthetics as John Rhys Davies (they may have refined the technique and perhaps because of the greater acting demands they'll break the prosthetics down into smaller bits) then what are you proving by saying that Richard Armitage sans prosthetics looks kind of similar (lets face it it's the nose) to one sketch of Thorin done by one artist which in my opinion doesn't even subscribe to the established image for dwarves who proportionally should have a larger head to their relative body size (that i beleive was the reason why John Rhys Davies wasn't able to play a dwarf just 'as is')?

I mean i'm going to try and be fair here, because a good actor should, in theory, be able to play any age and if Richard Armitage is as good as people claim and not just the victim of female (and male) hormonal obsession blinding them to otherwise workable but not exactly remarkable ability, then yes, perhaps this gamble could pay off. But personally i'd prefer someone who actually has the seniority and reputation that Thorin exhibits rather than leaving it to chance for a younger than appropriate actor to have to imagine what that would be. Andy Serkis said in an interview when he was playing Ian Drury that the way acting works is that you basically look at the 'venn diagram' of where your own experience and that of the character overlap and basically use that as the core of your performance and imagine the rest. My worry is that in the case of Richard Armitage and Thorin that overlap really is very small (i accept that this will very quickly devolve into a case of reductio ad absurdum- very few actors have been driven from their kingdom by a dragon and spent a hundred odd years in exile plotting their revenge, but they could have at least have cast someone in the relative appropriate phase of their life).

I do completely agree with Flagg though- to petition for Armitage's replacement in the role (i would be happy to see him in the film otherwise) would be petty and insulting and would express a vote of no confidence which isn't quite what i'm doing (i've not seen enough of his work to be completely sure that he couldn't do it at all). My contention is rather a cross between a vote of shakey confidence and a vote of history repeating itself.

I do apologise if people consider this not to be pertinent to the debate of the new additions to the cast, however the splinter topic 'for those unfamiliar with the person playing Thorin' appears to have disappeared, and while the matters do somewhat overlap with the hot dwarf topic i thought the real discussion remained here.

Dr Death


Bound
Rohan


Dec 9 2010, 3:01pm

Post #128 of 146 (5127 views)
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hmmm [In reply to] Can't Post

Okay - the pictures are a throw away issue, I agree.

I've never seen this guy act in anything so I can't judge.

I don't think Jackson cares to much about age - he cast Elijah Wood when he was clearly young for the part and to be honest that didnt bother me.

What is your issue with the casting ??? To be honest i'm a little indiffernt to most of the casting as i don't know most of their works. I'll jusge when i see footage of them..


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Dec 9 2010, 6:07pm

Post #129 of 146 (5703 views)
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Tolkien describes some Dwarvish helms as having visors, doesn't he? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think? Or am I confused with Elf-armor, (such as Turin's Dragon-helm)?

Samuel L. Jackson for Bilbo, Woody Allen for Thorin, Lewis Black for Bard and Gilbert Gottfried for Smaug!

MAKE IT HAPPEN, PETER!!!

(This post was edited by Captain Salt on Dec 9 2010, 6:08pm)


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Dec 9 2010, 6:12pm

Post #130 of 146 (6097 views)
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TĂşrin's Dragon-helm was made by Telchar, the same dwarf who forged Narsil (AndĂşril). // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Dec 9 2010, 6:29pm

Post #131 of 146 (6205 views)
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Ah, that's right... [In reply to] Can't Post

So, could be a royal Dwarvish helm.

Samuel L. Jackson for Bilbo, Woody Allen for Thorin, Lewis Black for Bard and Gilbert Gottfried for Smaug!

MAKE IT HAPPEN, PETER!!!


mykonos
Bree

Dec 9 2010, 6:30pm

Post #132 of 146 (6223 views)
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Valid points [In reply to] Can't Post

But re: Richard Armitage's looks, I always thought it was the opposite. Namely, people thinking he's better looking than he is because of his acting. He's not exactly a pretty boy in the Brad Pitt sense. I didn't like him much until I saw his work, then I saw what all the fuss was about.

In the case of Stuart Townsend, wasn't he also sent packing from the Thor set? I'm thinking it was more Townsend's "creative differences", as it was so nicely put in the press release, that caused his replacement than that he was too young. As has been brought up before, Peter Jackson doesn't seem to have a problem casting younger. It can work. I doubt there will be nasty "creative differences" with Richard Armitage. He seems to get along just fine with his colleagues. He should be safe.


Bran
Lorien

Dec 9 2010, 6:40pm

Post #133 of 146 (5948 views)
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Best for last [In reply to] Can't Post

It may be that they need to have most of the other actors in place, to plan the shoot, so they know when and where McKellan and any other big names (Saruman) will be needed. Might be important when organising contracts.

That said, They knew enough to cast Freeman around his Sherlock commitments.


sphdle1
Gondor


Dec 9 2010, 7:40pm

Post #134 of 146 (6125 views)
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There's just something about Cate [In reply to] Can't Post

I really like her acting in every movie I've seen her in, also there's something really sexy about her when she talks, smiles...something in her eyes the way she looks. She has to be one of the best actresses on the planet right now.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Dec 9 2010, 8:02pm

Post #135 of 146 (5140 views)
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The casting of Frodo and Thorin [In reply to] Can't Post

are somewhat different cases. Frodo received the One Ring when he was thirty-three, so it makes sense that he would still look relatively young at the age of fifty. We also know that hobbits in general have longer life-spans than humans, which makes Frodo's youthful countenance even more acceptable. Thorin, on the other hand, is centuries old and has been through a great deal of hardship throughout his long life, so it would have been appropriate for him to be portrayed by an ageing, 'weathered' actor.


Bound
Rohan


Dec 9 2010, 8:40pm

Post #136 of 146 (5784 views)
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But... [In reply to] Can't Post

You presume that Peter Jackson cast Frodo with those facts in mind. I think he cast Elijah because he was the best man for the job so we should presume that the same is said for thorin. Clearly Peter thinks Richard is perfect for the job.. I can't really complain until i see some scenes with him in costume and acting...


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Dec 10 2010, 12:28am

Post #137 of 146 (5739 views)
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I think he cast him for those big blue eyes.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

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Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Dec 10 2010, 12:30am

Post #138 of 146 (5313 views)
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Perhaps the best actress ever! [In reply to] Can't Post

What other actress would and could play Bob Dylan.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


macfalk
Valinor


Dec 10 2010, 9:10am

Post #139 of 146 (5269 views)
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Elijah [In reply to] Can't Post

sent PJ a recorded tape I think of some of his acting, and PJ was blown away. That's how I remember it, that is! Cool



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


DrDeath153
Lorien

Dec 10 2010, 12:25pm

Post #140 of 146 (5439 views)
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Once again Flagg you get exactly where i'm coming from [In reply to] Can't Post

There are many ways to justify Elijah Wood's casting, both in terms of cinematic suitability and more pertinently book-suitability. I do pretty much subscribe to Flagg's interpretation as to why in the film he looks so much younger than the 50 years he is in the books- that the Ring has drawn out his youth from the point he obtained it as he came of age (i think it's fair to assume that 33 is the Hobbit version of 18 or 21 in our modern human lifespans). But beyond the strict bounds of 'in world' justification, the character of Frodo is one of a young person, far moreso than Bilbo at the respective age since Frodo has the benefit of Bilbo's 'wander-lust' as it were- he doesn't know what the outside world is like but he wants to get out there and see it. Bilbo by comparison was much more 'middle-aged' by the time he started his own adventure- settled rather than restless, and not naive about the outside world because he had no real desire to see it and so no perceptions of what it would be. Really (to draw a close to this rather divergent ramble about Frodo) it boils down to something that Alan Lee wrote in his sketchbook about how he depicts Frodo 'I kept him in a state of indeterminate youth, alongside Gandalf's indeterminate old age.' In other words, what's important about the character is not the specific number assigned to their age, but the broad phase of life they are written as being in, and the same is true of Thorin.

This is, Bound, the reason (if i've not already made it apparent) that i am dubious of the casting of Richard Armitage- that due to his youth he will not have the same energy (or more specifically lack there-of) that someone who more closely fits Thorin's phase of life would. Thorin is not a virile action hero in the prime of his life like say Aragorn (not that he exactly was but there are clear comparisons to be drawn), Boromir or Eomer, and in the light of who Peter Jackson has cast i fear not only that Richard Armitage would not be able to act that far above his age, but also that the entire character of Thorin has been bent and shoehorned into an 'action-lead' stereotype that would essentially kill the character with all the sub-textual pressures he exhibits in the book. It would be as big a mistake tonally as making the whole Arkenstone debacle simply about greed.

As much as i'd love to trust Peter Jackson and Richard Armitage, i'm honestly worried about it and would prefer someone of the ilk of Ian McShane (who i thought was a stroke of minor genius of Guillermo's for Thorin), Brian Cox (though if he was cast i would worry about the villainous elements of Agamemnon being dragged over into Thorin), Anthony Hopkins, Tom Conti, Brendan Gleeson, even a couple of people already in the cast- i'd have more faith in Graham McTavish or Ken Stott in this crucial lead role - these actors would have more of an overlap in their personal/Thorin Venn Diagram to draw on and i could smile with confidence and optimism at both how well they would embody the character from the book and what more they could bring to him from their own imaginations and experience.

Dr Death


Bound
Rohan


Dec 10 2010, 12:46pm

Post #141 of 146 (5544 views)
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oh yeah for sure... [In reply to] Can't Post

I know that story but Peter cast him because of that - and didn't care about how young/old he was. I don't think he considered any kind of "well the ring would have kept frodo looking young" train of though etc etc.

He was hired because he was the right actor for Frodo. WE must presume the same goes for Richard. I know Jackson has been wrong before - both in Stuart Townsend and also casting Ryan Gosling in the lovely bones - only to be replaced by the god awful Mark Walberg


sphdle1
Gondor


Dec 10 2010, 1:34pm

Post #142 of 146 (4571 views)
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True! Never thought about that [In reply to] Can't Post

I haven't seen that movie yet, but I plan to put it high on my priority list now...thx!

She is definitely one of the best, if not THE best. It got me to thinking...who could compete with her as best actress ever...here's the list of actresses I could think of:
- Jodie Foster
- Meryl Streep
- Kate Winslet
- Angelina Jolie
- Hilary Swank
- Nicole Kidman

Also, though she is still young, Emma Watson has developed into a great actress, imho.



Bound
Rohan


Dec 10 2010, 2:33pm

Post #143 of 146 (5285 views)
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Wow... [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't like to rain on anyone's opinons but Emma Waston is one of the worst young actresses out there. She is constantly the worst thing in the Harry Potter movies and I don't know how often i've heard people complian about her awful eyebrow acting.

as i said i don't like to rain on people views.. and this isn't a persoanl attack but rather an observation ...


sphdle1
Gondor


Dec 10 2010, 3:12pm

Post #144 of 146 (6230 views)
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no problem [In reply to] Can't Post

you're entitled to your own wrong opinion Laugh

I don't go by what critics or the majority of people say ... I go with how I feel about someone's acting and how it touches me ... up until this latest HP7.1 movie, I never thought much about it, but Emma Watson in this latest film had a much larger role and was in almost all the scenes compared to the other movies ... this movie really resonated with me, and it was her acting IMHO that was one of the main contributing factors...she really stepped it up many notches as far as I saw and felt.


Bound
Rohan


Dec 10 2010, 5:24pm

Post #145 of 146 (6257 views)
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I'll give you that... [In reply to] Can't Post

She certainly improved in the most recent movie compared to the ones before...


BountyHunter
The Shire

Dec 12 2010, 5:42pm

Post #146 of 146 (8182 views)
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Hobbit Casting news [In reply to] Can't Post

The Doctor as Radagast!!! This is great. I love Sylvester McCoy!!!

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