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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Having seen Harry Potter 7.1
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duats
Grey Havens

Nov 21 2010, 12:29am

Post #1 of 69 (1096 views)
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Having seen Harry Potter 7.1 Can't Post

I'm a bit concerned about The Hobbit being split into two films.

Don't get me wrong, HP7.1 was well-made all things considered (strongly acted, great visuals, good writing, beautiful music)... but it felt like there was no resolution to anything, and it just kinda... ends. It came across as a blatant prelude to the final film, and I ultimately left the theater feeling like it just didn't hold up on its own. It was like a glorified, two-hour-long teaser trailer.

So now I can't help but be more concerned for The Hobbit Part 1. I want a film that can be enjoyed on its own (even if it is just one piece of a two-parter), just like how I can watch and enjoy FoTR without having to watch TTT and RoTK. If the films can only be enjoyed together, I might as well just wait for The Hobbit Part 1 to come out on DVD and watch it right before the second film.


(This post was edited by duats on Nov 21 2010, 12:36am)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Nov 21 2010, 1:12am

Post #2 of 69 (539 views)
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The Hobbit can not be measured by anything to do with Harry Potter. [In reply to] Can't Post

The structure of the hobbit is completely different + the people who wrote the Two Hobbits and the Man who will direct it know very well what you are worried about. (After all Peter was largely responsible for Fellowship of the Ring.) But if you want to stay home until part 2 the lines will be that much shorter.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Nov 21 2010, 1:29am

Post #3 of 69 (491 views)
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A reasonable concern [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it is inevitable that the two Hobbit films will feel somewhat fractured and incomplete. We'll just have to wait and see just how satisfying the filmmakers are able to make the first film as a stand-alone film. I don't have extraordinarily high hopes on that front, though I'm certainly happy to be proven wrong.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


lurtz2010
Rohan

Nov 21 2010, 2:12am

Post #4 of 69 (495 views)
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what do you mean [In reply to] Can't Post

about PJ being largely responsible for FOTR? he was responsible for everything.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Nov 21 2010, 2:36am

Post #5 of 69 (448 views)
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He did not adapt it alone. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

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Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 21 2010, 4:25am

Post #6 of 69 (455 views)
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Ask yourself... [In reply to] Can't Post

Did FOTR and/or TTT seem like blatant preludes to ROTK, or did they reasonably stand up as films on their own?

Jackson & Co. tried to make FOTR and TTT with their own dramatic arcs. How successful that seemed to you would be the answer to your question as I would suppose they would be taking the approach to the structire of H1.

******************************************
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He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


TheGoblinKing
Rohan

Nov 21 2010, 4:42am

Post #7 of 69 (443 views)
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Lets Make It Clear [In reply to] Can't Post

Its Peter and Fran who makes the movies go and yes Boyens is a great help but Middle Earth is about Peter and Frans vision as a team in my view.

You cannot compare Potter to Rings. Potter has to be told cause such a large book. The Hobbit more or less is a Bridge film that takes us too LOTR. Potter is the finale while Hobbit starts it all. At one time i believe The Hobbit stuff happened in movie 1 and the second film was about where we get all things to connect to Fellowship Of The Ring. Now I believe Both will be great Two Parters and will make The Matrix sequels look like a school movie video.


dormouse
Half-elven

Nov 21 2010, 9:30am

Post #8 of 69 (412 views)
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I see what you mean [In reply to] Can't Post

Although I have to say that I didn't feel that way about HP7. For me it was the best HP so far by a long way and though it does leave you before the end, isn't that inevitable in a film labelled 'part one'?

In any case I think that while the concern is justified, HP and The Hobbit are two different beasts. 'HP and the Deathly Hallows' is just one book with one linear story and the adaptation had followed it almost to the letter, so watching the first film was bound to feel like reading half the book (They could perhaps have included a brief scene in Shell Cottage with the characters taking stock of events so far and looking forward, that might have helped. I do see what you mean about it just ending). But Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens have a different style of adaptation and they're threading other material into The Hobbit, to do with the White Council and Dol Guldur. So the way is open for them to create some sort of resolution at the end of film 1, even though the story will go on. The question I'd ask is, did you worry about this before you saw HP7, based on your experience of the LOTR films? If you didn't, then maybe that's the thought you should hold on to. It's a problem they seemed to be aware of in the previous adaptations and one which I think they will have thought through when they decided how and where to divide the story.


cameragod
Lorien


Nov 21 2010, 9:34am

Post #9 of 69 (395 views)
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Ok [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Now I believe Both will be great Two Parters and will make The Matrix sequels look like a school movie video.



So no pressure then Peter.

All artists are prepared to suffer for their work, but why are so few prepared to learn to draw? :BANKSY


"A Cameraman without a camera is just a man." Stephen Press

(This post was edited by cameragod on Nov 21 2010, 9:36am)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Nov 21 2010, 10:14am

Post #10 of 69 (431 views)
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The Hobbit: The Quest for Erabor & The Hobbit: Dragon Gold [In reply to] Can't Post

Think of it as compilable to Episode IV & Episode V of StarWars structurally.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

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Nesse
Lorien

Nov 21 2010, 11:58am

Post #11 of 69 (438 views)
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I seen HP CONTAINS SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

I loved it but then I'm a big Harry Potter fan (one of those who queued up at midnight for this book). I couldnt help but notice a part of the movie was very like LotR...did anyone else feel that. I wanted the film to go on longer and I cant wait till the next one, but yes I feel the LotR trilogy can be watched as seperate films compared to HP many times Ive watched the trilogy in no particular order so Im wondering if TH part 1 will end on a cliffhanger or like the trilogy.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Nov 21 2010, 1:49pm

Post #12 of 69 (375 views)
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I haven't seen it yet [In reply to] Can't Post

but I've read the book and I know where the filmmakers made the split. I don't think it was a great choice... rather than leaving the audience hanging, I think it would have been better to end the film after the sequence with Xenophilius. That sequence would provide a fitting climax, reveal the nature of the Hallows and allow for a fairly peaceful ending in which the main characters are at a safe place along their journey. Instead the filmmakers went a little bit further and ended the film in the middle of another exciting sequence with no resolution. I think it would have been better to open the second film with this sequence rather than halfway through it. Giving this sort of satisfying conclusion to the first film would, I believe, have put it on the same level as the previous films in terms of stand-alone capability.


TheGoblinKing
Rohan

Nov 21 2010, 2:41pm

Post #13 of 69 (361 views)
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With Peter [In reply to] Can't Post

You also get extended cut DVD's can sometimes get the full story no matter what he leaves out. HP just now is doing the extended's but PJ is king of Extended cut dvd's.


Auraran
Lorien

Nov 21 2010, 6:07pm

Post #14 of 69 (348 views)
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Resolution in the first Hobbit film [In reply to] Can't Post

As Dormouse says below:

So the way is open for them to create some sort of resolution at the end of film 1, even though the story will go on.

If Reddit is right and the Dwarves-imprisoned-scene is changed, and if that is where the first film ends (two big ifs) then that could be how they attempt to bring a sense of resolution.




macfalk
Valinor


Nov 21 2010, 6:11pm

Post #15 of 69 (311 views)
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Flagg [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps you will think diferently when you see the movie... I thought the split was rather good. (Spoiler) I don't think its a very good idea to kill off a known character right in the beginning of a movie, so I thought this was a great break... of course ending with Voldemort opening Dumbledore's grave and "testing out" the Elder Wand. (Spoiler)



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Nov 21 2010, 7:26pm

Post #16 of 69 (294 views)
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That may be so [In reply to] Can't Post

From what I've heard, most of the people who've seen the film have not been too impressed by the ending, but perhaps I should go and see for myself. I do think tomb scene could have been moved to straight after the Xenophilius sequence, though.


Aragorn the Elfstone
Grey Havens


Nov 21 2010, 8:03pm

Post #17 of 69 (317 views)
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Really? [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought the ending was absolutely brilliant. It was daring to end the film in such a dark place. Our heroes are pretty much screwed as the film ends. Also, having a certain character's death happen a the beginning of part 2 would rob part 1 of an emotional ending. Same thing as with what PJ & Co. did with FotR and Boromir's death. Cinematically speaking, if you can end a film with a character's death - that's usually the best way to go (that sounds horrible doesn't it.. Laugh).

"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible."
- T.E. Lawrence


(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Nov 21 2010, 8:04pm)


Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea


Nov 21 2010, 8:24pm

Post #18 of 69 (291 views)
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I totally disagree. I loved it. [In reply to] Can't Post

Spoilers.

I think HP7 was done brilliantly and I am *so* glad that it was split into two films, and I think it left us off on an excellent teaser for the final part. They ended their arc with the locket, which had started from movie 6, and they ended the "wandering" part of their journey, which took up a huge chunk of the book but was very important for character development. They ended on a climatic scale, what with being captured and escaping, and the denouement finally came with Dobby's burial, and the cliffhanger with Voldemort getting the most powerful wand ever.

I think that means the Hobbit will be really fantastic with it's split. It really leaves you anticipating more.

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Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea


Nov 21 2010, 8:30pm

Post #19 of 69 (298 views)
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And what about the hundreds of cast and crew members? [In reply to] Can't Post

You certainly cannot leave the other people out- many of them devoted just as much time to the project as he did.

My LiveJournal ~ My artwork and photography

NARF since age 8, when I refused to read the Hobbit because the cover looked boring and icky.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Nov 21 2010, 8:41pm

Post #20 of 69 (330 views)
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I must have wrote this in my sleep. [In reply to] Can't Post

The Hobbit: The Quest for Erabor & The Hobbit: Dragon Gold

Think of it as comparable to Episode IV & Episode V of StarWars structurally. Tongue

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

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Glaurung63
Lorien

Nov 21 2010, 10:36pm

Post #21 of 69 (280 views)
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apples and oranges, my friend [In reply to] Can't Post

although there are comparisons to be made, and without Tolkien I can't imagine Rowling, they are two different tales, and despite two films being made of each book, the books are very different, as are the directors and crew...so for me I am not worried about the end of one film and the beginning of the other... in each case! and I have yet to see the Potter film, but my sister raves....as for The Hobbit, PJ has shown his skill by tying each LOTR book together, using the narrative of the One Ring....he and his team will find just where to end a part 1 and begin a part 2....and I am psyched to experience it all...


Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea


Nov 22 2010, 1:40am

Post #22 of 69 (263 views)
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I didn't perceive it as incomplete as many people have said... [In reply to] Can't Post

But other concerns arose...Story changes felt slightly weird, and everything seemed much to swift. Things in the book become intense because of the sheer importance given to them, it seems as if every sequence was so rushed, that the importance never really sunk in, does it make sense?

SPOILERS







The moving of Harry at the beginning felt weak... the break-in to the Ministry, Harry not being transformed while in the wedding, the downplaying of Voldemort's search for the wand... very little explanation as to why Ollivander's kidnapping was delicate or why Gregorovitch and Grindelwald were important... Dobby's death was too swift.



SPOILERS END


I get that there's much material to adapt, but it felt rushed. The fact that the whole White Council storyline will be introduced and the sudden hyper-mentions of the importance of Radagast is suddenly a small *albeit important* concern to me. Also, since Beorn has never been mentioned, I guess there's still the chance that he will actually be replaced by Radagast, as has been suggested before in the forums. We'll have to wait and see.

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macfalk
Valinor


Nov 22 2010, 8:39am

Post #23 of 69 (225 views)
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Beorn [In reply to] Can't Post

That insider said Beorn will be in the film...I don't doubt it. Tom Bombadil was cut for not adding something specific to the ring story, but The Hobbit isn't about the ring, it's about good old Bilbo.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


ShadoFaxs
Rivendell

Nov 22 2010, 11:39pm

Post #24 of 69 (174 views)
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Forgive me for saying it... [In reply to] Can't Post

...but I feel The Hobbit is a much better structured book than HP&TDH. (Story structure was not JKR's strong point, and this book and OOTP suffer somewhat in this regard.) Yet I thought Kloves and Yates did a pretty good job of transfering The Longest Camping Trip into an enjoyable film. The book didn't exactly furnish a natural end point for Pt1, so I think the filmmakers ended film 1 in a perfectly logical place which sets up the stakes for film 2.

Just remember... PJ has experience in successfully adapting supposedly unfilmable books, so he should be just fine with a "filmable" one, albeit in two parts.

There are things in this world I'm really worried about, but this isn't one of them.


Owain
Tol Eressea


Nov 23 2010, 2:46am

Post #25 of 69 (149 views)
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I don't agree at all.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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