Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
I wonder if PJ....
First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

sharku
Rivendell

Nov 9 2010, 5:50am

Post #1 of 35 (848 views)
Shortcut
I wonder if PJ.... Can't Post

With all of these storyline suggestions (Troll names, 10 year-old Aragorn, Sauron's role / Dol Goldur etc), and the scripts having been finished for months - I sometimes wonder if PJ & Co. go "but of course - that would be a good idea!".

Unlikely I know, and it shows that one would have to have scrict discipline in their position!


Frodosfriend
Rivendell

Nov 9 2010, 6:19am

Post #2 of 35 (427 views)
Shortcut
You mean them coming on these boards and seeing the fans ideas?// [In reply to] Can't Post

 


sharku
Rivendell

Nov 9 2010, 6:59am

Post #3 of 35 (447 views)
Shortcut
Humbly, [In reply to] Can't Post

Basically yes.


Bound
Rohan


Nov 9 2010, 9:38am

Post #4 of 35 (418 views)
Shortcut
I would say no... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the strenghts and weekness's of a true artist is never to pander, either to critics or fans. I'm not suggesting that what the fans say aren't right but rather that Art (in this case the movies) can't be honest if the artist is second guessing himself by reading fans comments.

But also - fans are talking about what ifs - they've no idea what is or isn't in the scripts, so for all we know Peter could be reading the comments and thinkinng to himself "I've got that idea in the script.. and that idea.."


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 9 2010, 12:05pm

Post #5 of 35 (383 views)
Shortcut
No, for a couple reasons [In reply to] Can't Post

The script has already been written and approved. They had months to consider and reject all sorts of potential story lines. The writers known their Tolkien as well as we do, so it's likely some of the suggestions have occurred to them.

Secondly, for legal reasons, they will not even read any threads with suggestions for the script. We had to be very careful when Guillermo was visiting to avoid any plot suggestions. I can't see Peter, Fran or Philippa, if they even visited the boards, doing anything different.


Auraran
Lorien

Nov 9 2010, 3:56pm

Post #6 of 35 (343 views)
Shortcut
I realize the script is approved/finished.... [In reply to] Can't Post

... and that even if PJ/PB liked an idea -- such as 10-year old Aragorn, which IMO is a great one Smile-- and wanted to include it as a last-minute change, that the script has already been signed off on and basically sealed by MGM to the tune of $500 million, and they wouldn't be happy about countless final changes.

But isn't it possible to put out a wish list? Doesn't the byline on this board, after all, read: The place for all Hobbit news and speculation

Since actual news is dribbling out painfully slow what have we left but speculation?

After the movie is out, we'll have the celebrations and cheers, the groans and critiques ... but now is time for wish lists and speculation, I believe.


Tim
Tol Eressea


Nov 9 2010, 4:00pm

Post #7 of 35 (326 views)
Shortcut
Speculation wasn't the topic [In reply to] Can't Post

the scriptwriters paying heed to our suggestions and using them was. Smile

King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim?


PhillyArch
Registered User

Nov 9 2010, 4:14pm

Post #8 of 35 (316 views)
Shortcut
Signed off on? [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree they will not come on here and read suggestions but why are people suggesting the script has been "sealed"?

Weren't they updating the script, literally, every day throughout the filming of the LOTR


Auraran
Lorien

Nov 9 2010, 4:19pm

Post #9 of 35 (307 views)
Shortcut
Well even if so... [In reply to] Can't Post

What's the harm in a fan's wish list being taken seriously by the powers that be? ... If as PhillyArch says below, even this script is still open just a crack?


Auraran
Lorien

Nov 9 2010, 4:25pm

Post #10 of 35 (296 views)
Shortcut
"Sealed" was just my impression [In reply to] Can't Post

MGM is putting out huge bucks despite their dire financial situation and has had reason to be jityery and very serious recently.

I get the feeling that they wouldn't like too many "big" changes. Little spur of the moment tweaks, yes.

I hope you're right about the script having a fair amount of wiggle room.


Tim
Tol Eressea


Nov 9 2010, 4:30pm

Post #11 of 35 (293 views)
Shortcut
There's no harm in our speculation [In reply to] Can't Post

What's the harm in a fan's wish list being taken seriously by the powers that be?

Entmaiden brings up a good point in this thread:

Secondly, for legal reasons, they will not even read any threads with suggestions for the script. We had to be very careful when Guillermo was visiting to avoid any plot suggestions. I can't see Peter, Fran or Philippa, if they even visited the boards, doing anything different.


King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim?


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Nov 9 2010, 5:12pm

Post #12 of 35 (285 views)
Shortcut
Does that mean [In reply to] Can't Post

that the writers will be legally obligated to avoid using any suggestions they see, even if those suggestions were very good and obvious ones? For example, take the scene in FotR where Boromir picks up the ring. It's a very useful little scene for the films and it helps to move several storylines forward. If PJ had read that idea here in, say, 1999, would he have been compelled not to use it?

It's difficult to draw the line, especially since they're doing adaptation from a previously published source. Most of the ideas they could come up with will probably have been suggested at some point in the last seventy years or so...


Hengist
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 9 2010, 5:18pm

Post #13 of 35 (286 views)
Shortcut
If you think about it [In reply to] Can't Post

 if for example they did use a scene posted on a forum, the poster of that scene may well be within their rights (dont know the actual legalities) to demand royalties etc.

therefore best for them to steer clear of such suggestions.


" So let me get this straight. You want to fly on a magic carpet to see the King of the Potato People and plead with him for your freedom, and you're telling me you're completely sane? "


Bound
Rohan


Nov 9 2010, 5:34pm

Post #14 of 35 (268 views)
Shortcut
I don't think so.. [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think it could be proved if he was here and saw soemthing and decided to use it. I think its less of a legal / black and white issue and more an ethical thing.


Elentari03
Rivendell

Nov 9 2010, 5:36pm

Post #15 of 35 (271 views)
Shortcut
I think [In reply to] Can't Post

it would depend on how close such a scene was to Tolkien's actual story. If it was essentially a retelling, with tweaks, of something mentioned in the books, they would have no legal problem, even if someone had mentioned it on the boards. It would be within the scope of Tolkien's work. If it was an entirely new storyline, then they may have to be more careful.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Nov 9 2010, 5:39pm

Post #16 of 35 (266 views)
Shortcut
In that case [In reply to] Can't Post

they could conceivably use the Celebrían or Estel ideas after reading them here? (Not that I think they would, of course.)


shadowdog
Rohan

Nov 9 2010, 5:46pm

Post #17 of 35 (265 views)
Shortcut
They would need [In reply to] Can't Post

to tread carefully. Terry Russio (screen writer on the Pirates movies) has said on his site that they can't incorporate any story line suggestions once they had been suggested on his site because of the legal ramifications.


Empedocles
Rivendell


Nov 9 2010, 7:12pm

Post #18 of 35 (303 views)
Shortcut
Martin Freeman and Richard Armitage [In reply to] Can't Post

Their casting was suggested here first and I find it strangely coincidental that both ended up being casted for their respective roles.

I'm thinking Armitage read for Bard but for some reason was also considered by PJ as Thorin and read for that too.

So, if it happened with casting, why not with other things.

Some people have really come up with great ideas in this site and it would be great if some of those ideas were at least taken into account. After all, there's no way one of us can prove it anyways.

Please, give us back Glorfindel!!!


TheGoblinKing
Rohan

Nov 9 2010, 8:56pm

Post #19 of 35 (210 views)
Shortcut
Does Not Include [In reply to] Can't Post

This whole Approved Script does not include pick ups or lines the actors may say. In Rings PJ let the actors have freedoms to do lines and things there own way.


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 9 2010, 9:05pm

Post #20 of 35 (200 views)
Shortcut
Proving it is not the issue [In reply to] Can't Post

If someone filed a claim that their idea was used in the film, Warner and the film team would have to defend themselves in the suit. The issue of winning or losing is secondary to avoiding legal fees and the hassle of defending a lawsuit. No one from the film team or the studio want to get involved in a court case, which can cost tens of thousands of dollars, if not hundreds of thousands. Not to mention the distraction. Peter, Fran, Philippa and Guillermo do not want to have to take time from their busy lives to testify that they used their own ideas and did not take tips from anyone else.

Better just to avoid the situation altogether and don't use suggestions from fans.


Bound
Rohan


Nov 9 2010, 9:48pm

Post #21 of 35 (182 views)
Shortcut
Oh i totally agree.. [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree that from a legal point - they couldnt consider it.

In reality i don't think they'd do it anyways. They are self assured of their own skills, they've no need to be second guessing themselves.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Nov 9 2010, 10:05pm

Post #22 of 35 (174 views)
Shortcut
Casting does not count. Only scripts and design.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


carrioncrow
Lorien

Nov 10 2010, 12:44am

Post #23 of 35 (191 views)
Shortcut
hear me now and believe me later. [In reply to] Can't Post

I was heavily involved in these discussions on boards like this in the late twentieth century when Team PJ was just getting rolling on their great adventure. And we asked the same sort of questions back then. a few may recall the early Q&A Jackson did via aintitcoolnews (Jackson answered one og my questions!! and in fact, i think my question prompted his first on the record comment regarding Bombadil's omission from the films). So it 'felt' like there was a dialogue going on, even if it was mostly a lot of geeking-out rants by us and a little bit of listening by them

I wasn't involved on this site (in fact i'm talking pre TORN.net) back then my contributions were usually to that Joram Manka site, or another that had 'White Council' in the title.

But early in those discussions, i voiced my hunch that Arwen would be drawn closer to the action. There were two obvious sections where i thought this could happen. 2) she could replace (or assist) Glorfindel at the ford. 2) she could replace (or assist) the sons of Elrond in presenting Aragorn with the sword and banner. I also suggested that on some level, if they were going to 'activate' Arwen, I'd like to see them borrow a bit (at least stylistically) from the Beren-Luthien story. My suggested didn't win many fans back then, in fact i was pretty much flamed to a crisp. But I told the naysayers: "MARK MY WORDS, IF ARWEN APPEARS IN THIS FILM ACCOMPANIED BY A RETINUE THAT INCLUDES A GREAT HOUND (ala Luthien & Huan), ALL YOU NAYSAYERS OWE ME A BEER".

So, the FOTR takes shape and Arwen replaces Glorfindel. I'm not saying they got the idea from me...but there she was at the ford...okay.

Then the weirdness starts...rumors of Liv Tyler being involved in the filmming of Rohan and then...not.

TT comes out...some weird seams start to show. No Arwen in Rohan, no Elladan or Elrohir...instead the introduction of Haldir and the cloaked figure on the pony reveled to be...Elrond..

and then ROTK. ..more continuity weirdness (JAckson even comments on this in the commentaries) an then, just after the scene where the hobbit slips the palantir from Gandalf. there is a very heavily hacked up scene and Theoden's hall into the middle of which walks a maiden with a great hound.

when i saw this dog in the theater watching ROTK for the first time, i laughed out loud. When i saw it again on extended DVD (a real continuity mess that Jackson and Walsh laugh about directly on their commentary) i really began to wonder "Does somebody owe me a beer?"

Not that one wouldn't expect Rohan to have dogs. But that is the only scene in which one appears. Everything that appears on screen is a deliberate decision by the film makers. Why is that dog there?


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Nov 10 2010, 1:22am

Post #24 of 35 (170 views)
Shortcut
That's a long way of saying 'I was right!' [In reply to] Can't Post

:D

So what are your frightening suppositions for The Hobbit? *readies notepad*

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


carrioncrow
Lorien

Nov 10 2010, 1:31am

Post #25 of 35 (157 views)
Shortcut
oh, and the dog [In reply to] Can't Post

the dog in the scene appears to be a large sight hound...not quite a wolf hound, but on the largish side. On the director commentary Fran says something like "What's with that dog" (because it creates a rather glaring continuity glitch, walking by the same spot 3 or 4 times in the extended DVD version). ackson jokes back something about "Oh, Rohan had a renowned dog obedience training program...those were three different dogs Tongue

Jackson is joking there. Seemingly at a loss for a logical explanation.

As far as i can tell, you never see a dog in any other scene (someone please correct me if i'm wrong)...not in the stables nor at the mustering ..points where all of Rohan is pretty much hitting the road to dunharrow etc., these are scene when you might expect to see them if 'keeping dogs' is a design detail that has been assigned to the Rohirrim by the production design team.


(This post was edited by carrioncrow on Nov 10 2010, 1:38am)

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.