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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Bilbo meets 10-year old Aragorn in Rivendell
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Auraran
Lorien

Nov 9 2010, 3:47am

Post #1 of 44 (1255 views)
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Bilbo meets 10-year old Aragorn in Rivendell Can't Post

Has this ever been discussed before?

I just did the math and saw that Bilbo set out on the Quest of Erebor in 2941 T.A. (Third Age) and would’ve met 10-year old Aragorn in Rivendell – since Aragorn was born in 2931 T.A. and taken in by Elrond c. 2933 T.A., at about age two.

Aragorn didn’t leave Rivendell till age 20 in 2951 T.A. so was definitely there when Bilbo and the Dwarves passed through.

This will be great in the movie for the sake of continuity! I hope they include it. Maybe PJ can even have young Aragorn begging Elrond to let him go with Bilbo and the Dwarves to slay the dragon, and Elrond having to firmly say no.

What reason would Elrond have to hide Aragorn from trusted visitors since he had renamed him Estel and was careful to never discuss his lineage? (Maybe if Aragorn persists in asking, Elrond could slip and say, "I said no, Aragorn! .... er, I mean Estel!")


Wraith Buster
Gondor


Nov 9 2010, 4:07am

Post #2 of 44 (716 views)
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That is... [In reply to] Can't Post

Really interesting. I have never taken the time to do the math about anyones age but that is cool! They really should include it in the movie. At least a screen shot of a young Aragorn look-alike would be fun.Smile

If our honorable friend continues to scrape the bottom of the barrel for objections he is in danger of getting splinters under his nails.



The Party Tree
Lorien


Nov 9 2010, 4:40am

Post #3 of 44 (617 views)
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Oh goodness yes! [In reply to] Can't Post

I've wanted this for a while! I did the math on various characters' ages a while back, and 10 year old Aragorn was my favorite idea. :)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Nov 9 2010, 4:49am

Post #4 of 44 (659 views)
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Peter messed with the timelines in TTT EE [In reply to] Can't Post

so according to that Aragorn should be 27 movie years old. I say he is either 10 ore leave him out.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

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Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 9 2010, 4:58am

Post #5 of 44 (599 views)
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Yeah! [In reply to] Can't Post

Then 10 year old Aragorn and 2700 year old Arwen can have a squicky love scene like between 9 year old Anakin Skywalker and teenager Queen Amidala. That'll be a natural time for the audience to have a bathroom break.

(Or would a 27 year old Dunedain still be considered a child?)
.

******************************************
NARFOT since 1967.

NARFOP since 2001.

I'm NARFOB and I'm proud!!


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Nov 9 2010, 5:02am

Post #6 of 44 (562 views)
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Dont need no love sceens. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


Auraran
Lorien

Nov 9 2010, 5:22am

Post #7 of 44 (595 views)
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Peter messed with the timelines in TTT EE [In reply to] Can't Post

He did? Unsure Can you explain? Is there no possible way to say "Oops that was a mistake and now here's the correct version"? (After all, Tolkien changed Bilbo's story by having Gandalf "correct" it.)

I agree with you: I say he is either 10 or leave him out.


Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 9 2010, 5:27am

Post #8 of 44 (577 views)
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Strictly plutonic? [In reply to] Can't Post

(Sic.)

******************************************
NARFOT since 1967.

NARFOP since 2001.

I'm NARFOB and I'm proud!!


Mooseboy018
Gondor


Nov 9 2010, 5:49am

Post #9 of 44 (585 views)
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no 17 year gap [In reply to] Can't Post

There was no 17 year gap between Bilbo leaving and Frodo starting his journey (it was probably only one year in the movie), but Aragorn was still 87 like he was in the book, which was mentioned in the TT EE.


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 9 2010, 6:37am

Post #10 of 44 (585 views)
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There IS a 17 year gap... if you want it... [In reply to] Can't Post

... since the film never said 17 years did *not* pass, I take it to mean it is assumed.

I wouldn't want the film giving me location and date-time updates ala X-files, so I'm happy to take those things for granted Wink



Welsh hero
Gondor

Nov 9 2010, 8:45am

Post #11 of 44 (518 views)
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isn't the films [In reply to] Can't Post

set 60 years before the trilogy, so as Aragon says he's 87,

he'd be 27

http://www.facebook.com/hobbitnz


macfalk
Valinor


Nov 9 2010, 9:04am

Post #12 of 44 (516 views)
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Earl is right [In reply to] Can't Post

How do we know it's not a 17 year gap? Maybe it didn't look that way, but it could have been so.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


dormouse
Half-elven

Nov 9 2010, 9:10am

Post #13 of 44 (528 views)
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Yes... [In reply to] Can't Post

... that's the messing about with the timeline referred to in several previous posts. In the films they cut the 17 year gap between the party and Frodo leaing the Shire, though as Earl points out, they didn't actually say that 17 years didn't pass....

As far as the idea of 10-year-old Aragorn at Rivendell goes, there's nothing to stop them having a young boy wandering about in the background but then you have to ask, how would it work? If he's just glimpsed, what's the point? People who don't know the story may not get that he's human rather than elf, and they might wonder why this is the only young elf. But if he's introduced in some way - "This is Estel (*aside, whispered in Bilbo's ear* we call him that but his name's really Aragorn. He's the heir of Isidur, you know). Now, run along and play Estel, we need to discuss this map...." - it becomes more like product placement than an adaptation of 'The Hobbit'

When the Bilbo and co. arrive at Rivendell the audience will be interested in them. Where are they, what's going to happen, how is this going to affect their journey. If a glimpse of a young Aragorn could contribute to that - or to the sub-plot of Dol Guldur - then he's worth including. If it's just "hey, look at him - he's going to turn up in the next movies" then I reckon it's best to leave him out.


FarFromHome
Valinor


Nov 9 2010, 12:08pm

Post #14 of 44 (492 views)
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If you want the 17 year gap... [In reply to] Can't Post

.... you'd need to be willing to believe that all the hobbits take after Bilbo and don't "age a day" over a period of nearly two decades...

Tongue

They went in, and Sam shut the door.
But even as he did so, he heard suddenly,
deep and unstilled,
the sigh and murmur of the Sea upon the shores of Middle-earth.
From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings



Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Nov 9 2010, 1:04pm

Post #15 of 44 (459 views)
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I quite like your comparison of gratuitous cameos to product placement. [In reply to] Can't Post

Another word that popped up in this thread was pandering. It too has applicability.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

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Crunchable Birdses
Rohan


Nov 9 2010, 1:05pm

Post #16 of 44 (491 views)
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Oh god no. [In reply to] Can't Post

I've still only just recovered from the mental trauma of being subjected to a 10-year old Darth Vader, so please - for the love of Eru, PJ - don't add any awful cameos of baby versions of characters from LotR.

* crunch *


Eruonen
Tol Eressea


Nov 9 2010, 5:05pm

Post #17 of 44 (420 views)
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Ahh, a Numenorean 10 year old is equivalent to a 28 yr old or there abouts [In reply to] Can't Post

Aragorn lived 210 years.....avg male say 75....2.8 yrs for each normal life.......there you go, a large "10 yr old".


Elladan
Rivendell

Nov 9 2010, 5:54pm

Post #18 of 44 (397 views)
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I think you have that the wrong way around [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes 210/75 = 2.8 but if a 10 year old Numenorean = a 28 year old human then a 210 year old Numenorean = a 588 year old human, which doesnt make sense.

You need to do it the other way around. In which case, 75/210 = 0.36 roughly therefore a 10 year olf Numenorean equals a 3.6 year old human which just gets confusing as we would then have the 3 year old Numenorean Aragorn being roughly equivalent in development to a 1 year old human when he is brought to Rivendell.

I cant imagine Numenoreans develop slowly compared to regular humans, they just age slowly. In which case the entire argument is moot.


Loresilme
Valinor


Nov 9 2010, 6:22pm

Post #19 of 44 (383 views)
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I just had to say [In reply to] Can't Post

i love your nick :-)....

Sly


Eruonen
Tol Eressea


Nov 9 2010, 6:22pm

Post #20 of 44 (378 views)
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Correct, a stout 4 yr old......! [In reply to] Can't Post

Agree, they must have reached adult hood and just remained vital far longer ...i.e. 2.8 yrs or so for every "normal" year.


Mooseboy018
Gondor


Nov 9 2010, 7:04pm

Post #21 of 44 (362 views)
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Exactly [In reply to] Can't Post

And I'm pretty sure Peter, Fran, and Phillipa mentioned it in the commentary. I think they described it as being a few months. But it would have to have been closer to a year because they arrive in Rivendell in October like in the book, which means they had to have left the Shire in September.


Auraran
Lorien

Nov 9 2010, 7:08pm

Post #22 of 44 (349 views)
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I agree on one point [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, young Anakim left a strange, bad taste in my mouth as well. I had forgotten about that.

Fortunately, because PJ has already mixed up Aragorn's timeline, we won't see him as a ten-year old in the movie.

But for the record, however, according to Tolkien, Aragorn was there at the time, he was that age, and Bilbo would have met him there.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Nov 9 2010, 7:11pm

Post #23 of 44 (353 views)
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It may not have been two decades [In reply to] Can't Post

but I think it could conceivably have been four or five years in the film-verse (if you do wish to view it as a separate universe). Maybe even six or seven if you stretch it. The film-hobbits all seemed to be in their late twenties/early thirties at both the Long-Expected Party and the Council of Elrond.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Nov 9 2010, 7:15pm

Post #24 of 44 (350 views)
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Darth Vader and Aragorn [In reply to] Can't Post

play profoundly different roles in their respective original trilogies. I could agree with you if, say, Jackson decided it would be cool to put a kid Sauron in The Hobbit.

But meeting the child Aragorn at Rivendell would make sense, and I believe he could handled in a dignified and meaningful way.


Patty
Immortal


Nov 9 2010, 7:17pm

Post #25 of 44 (340 views)
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So, okay, how old is PJ's son now? [In reply to] Can't Post

Cool I smell cameo!

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