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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Hobbit Stays in New Zealand!!!
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R4W13Y
Bree


Oct 27 2010, 4:51pm

Post #326 of 364 (4304 views)
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Agreed Flagg [In reply to] Can't Post

I too would like to see some links - as well as some that prove that Warner's are in fact going to underpay the workers of NZ. Oddly enough, from the dozens of articles I have read, it seems the workers on The Hobbit will be paid way above the minimum requirement, with many many amazing benefits. Strange that through all of my reading, I have failed to find all the different articles you've apparently been reading claiming the exact opposite. I would love to see the proof you have!

Also, it is within the film industry of NZ that will have a clarification of what makes one an "employee" or "contractor." Seems to me this does not undermine any worker of New Zealand's rights or is a "step back" in progress for the labor laws of NZ. Seems to me that it is rather a protection of rights for both types of workers within the film industry. Maybe you can give me some more insight, specific links and articles that will prove to me otherwise.

Until then, I see you like many on these boards do: a nay-saying dissenter. I don't see any value or proof behind your arguments - simply negative statements with nothing to back them up. I will put more thought into what you say when you can show me all of the links, articles, and reasons that prove Warner's strongholded the NZ democracy to reduce labor laws so they can get away with treating their workers like slaves. I have seen absolutely not one shred of evidence for this belief.


(This post was edited by R4W13Y on Oct 27 2010, 4:57pm)


R4W13Y
Bree


Oct 27 2010, 4:55pm

Post #327 of 364 (4239 views)
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Absolutely amazing news, indeed!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Unfortunately I had tons of research and shadowing with my advisor this morning starting around 6AM so I could not take part in the vigil or celebration early this morning! But I checked around 7AM on my phone and squealed with absolute joy!Smile

This is incredible news, for us, for Peter, for the crew, for everyone in NZ, and for Warner Bros.!Heart

I am very keen to celebrate tonight with a bottle of champagne, just like the rest of you folksSly

I am so looking forward to the coming months and years ahead, and I am excited to continually support Peter and all the crew through all of this!!

Cheers!


LoremIpsum
Lorien


Oct 27 2010, 5:10pm

Post #328 of 364 (4424 views)
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so glad this is over [In reply to] Can't Post

hopefully this was the last roadblock for this movie

GO PJ AND NZ Heart

NZ = MIDDLE EARTH


dormouse
Half-elven

Oct 27 2010, 5:19pm

Post #329 of 364 (4254 views)
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*Sigh*... In answer to Gandalf'sMother.... [In reply to] Can't Post



Quote

You really believe that New Zealanders on this booard capture the entire NZ people?


No, of course I don't - but I've been reading round all the news websites I can find and the view from the New Zealand media is overwhelmingly positive. I also know some people in New Zealand who have been very anxious and are celebrating today - and since John Key was so determined to persuaded Warners to stay - within the perameters of what was reasonable and what his country could afford - I have to assume that he thought the majority of his country would be behind him. If they're not, I'm sure they'll let him know.


Quote
And why, exactly, do you assume I am NOT a Kiwi?


I guessed that you weren't from New Zealand because in a post you made in the last few days you said you knew nothing whatever about New Zealand employment law before all this blew up. Also your phraseology in previous posts about what you think New Zealand should do reads like an outsider's view. And I noticed that you spell labour without the 'u', which is something I associate - perhaps wrongly - with American spelling. If I'm wrong on any of these counts please accept my apologies.


(This post was edited by dormouse on Oct 27 2010, 5:21pm)


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Oct 27 2010, 5:43pm

Post #330 of 364 (4281 views)
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Gandalf'sMother's spelling [In reply to] Can't Post

I know quite a bit about the many subtle differences between American English and British English I knew it would come in handy someday! and you're right, Gandalf'sMother does seem to veer more towards American spelling. Here she uses the spelling 'color' rather than 'colour'. She uses the word 'favor' rather than 'favour' here, here, here and here, and she uses 'center' rather than 'centre' here. I could probably go on and keep finding more Americanisms, but I think I've made my point. Kiwis don't write in American English, and Gandalf'sMother has done so without exception. Quite suspicious, if you ask me. Smile


sharku
Rivendell

Oct 27 2010, 6:06pm

Post #331 of 364 (4155 views)
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Well spotted [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I know quite a bit about the many subtle differences between American English and British English I knew it would come in handy someday! and you're right, Gandalf'sMother does seem to veer more towards American spelling. Here she uses the spelling 'color' rather than 'colour'. She uses the word 'favor' rather than 'favour' here, here, here and here, and she uses 'center' rather than 'centre' here. I could probably go on and keep finding more Americanisms, but I think I've made my point. Kiwis don't write in American English, and Gandalf'sMother has done so without exception. Quite suspicious, if you ask me. Smile


Perhaps GM is curling into the foetal position in response?


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Oct 27 2010, 6:08pm

Post #332 of 364 (4303 views)
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Sooo [In reply to] Can't Post

in a sense, they deserve some thanks in this too Angelic


bluepilgrim
Registered User

Oct 27 2010, 6:17pm

Post #333 of 364 (4327 views)
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Woohoo! [In reply to] Can't Post

now back to work :(

DC Ringers: Fellowship of the Beltway


Tim
Tol Eressea


Oct 27 2010, 6:21pm

Post #334 of 364 (4339 views)
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You havent even seen the legislation yet [In reply to] Can't Post

and already you pass judgment. Interesting.

King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim?


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Oct 27 2010, 6:33pm

Post #335 of 364 (4099 views)
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Or more precisely, [In reply to] Can't Post

the fetal position, if my suspicions are correct. Wink


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Oct 27 2010, 6:46pm

Post #336 of 364 (4095 views)
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Well... I admit [In reply to] Can't Post

that I haven't had the time to go through all of the information and read all of the posts... and I am admittedly ignorant when it comes to the legalities and implications.

I stand corrected and am sincerely concerned with any fallout from this that harms the industry and the workers..... but I'm still happy at Warner Bros decision to keep the films in NZ.

sample sample

I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.



TORn's Observations Lists
Unused Scenes



SirDennisC
Half-elven


Oct 27 2010, 6:48pm

Post #337 of 364 (4163 views)
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She? [In reply to] Can't Post

How do we know even that?

Anyway, the principle behind GM's comments is sound, that it is an affront to the people of NZ (or any sovereign nation) that an offshore corporation should be able to elicit changes to law in their country. In fact, that was a key complaint levelled at the offshore unions in all of this, that they had no right to meddle in NZ labour law or to demand changes to the industry practice.

So on that basis, and in this very narrow sense, I agree with him/her, American or otherwise.

Things that make this more palatable for me, and I suspect, many NZers are: the change to law appears to be limited to The Hobbit production; the apparent lingering confusion about rights of employees vs the rights of contractors and the very definition of either seems to be cleared up; it appears that a long term commitment towards NZ is being made by Warners (and assuming it is not exploitative by nature, this is a fairly progressive pledge on their part); and finally, everyone seems to have come through this, in NZ anyway, with their dignity intact.

The sum result of the negotiations is laudable, imho, but that does not mean it does not warrant finer scrutiny. Whether this is the time or place for such scrutiny, on anyone's part, is a separate issue. There seems to be a lot of goodwill behind the decisions taken. On that basis, and for the sake of The Hobbit finally moving forward, I am more than happy to take a wait and see attitude.

As AL said, frowns upside down, all around!


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Oct 27 2010, 6:50pm)


sharku
Rivendell

Oct 27 2010, 6:49pm

Post #338 of 364 (4184 views)
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In this world [In reply to] Can't Post

Where capital will move to the cheaper labour, and where labour flows to meet the capital, such adjustments will occur in order to achieve the best outcomes. This is one of the cruxes of the anti-globalisation argument - preventing this freedom of exchange or at least trying to ensure it occurs to the benefit, rather than detriment, of people (as opposed to the capital).

This is a phenomenon which is occuring throughout the first world, as capital seeks cheaper labour - hence the rise of China at the expense of US workers, as just one example. The smart money for the next (and last) cheap global labour pool will be Africa - so start investing now. Further along, it has been suggested that the present first world will cyclicly become the cheap labour force for what is now the second world i.e. cheaper UK workers will be manufacturing luxury cars for wealthy Chinese.

In this instance, the capital had the choice to take its ball and leave the playground unless NZ chose to play by its rules. Thus NZ has done. To berate NZ for capitulating or bending over is to minimise the fact that Warner Brothers had other options and would have exercised them, resulting in the NZ film industry remaining principled, but unemployed.

But it is not entirely one way. In industries where the capital is fixed, such as health, the labour moves to meet the money i.e. NZ doctors leave for Australia and better pay and conditions there. The doctors are taking the ball and leaving the playground.

Unless one is able to change the fundamentals of the global system, this sort of paradigm clash and its outcomes are seemingly inevitable.


(This post was edited by sharku on Oct 27 2010, 6:52pm)


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Oct 27 2010, 6:50pm

Post #339 of 364 (4205 views)
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Their actions [In reply to] Can't Post

... bottom line... are getting these films made and NZ back to finishing the job they started and helping their reputation and economy. If they're happy, I'm happy... and for that, I give thanks :) Been on my knees a couple of times today.

sample sample

I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.



TORn's Observations Lists
Unused Scenes



dormouse
Half-elven

Oct 27 2010, 6:53pm

Post #340 of 364 (4326 views)
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Amen to that! :) [In reply to] Can't Post

Today is a good news day! Smile


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 27 2010, 6:56pm

Post #341 of 364 (4038 views)
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I heard that MEAA ate the cheese sandwich. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 27 2010, 7:00pm

Post #342 of 364 (4266 views)
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I am in! And thanks. [In reply to] Can't Post

I have had to be careful around cheese in recent years anyway. EvilSlyWink

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 27 2010, 7:08pm

Post #343 of 364 (4325 views)
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The party must be almost over. [In reply to] Can't Post

People are starting to be serious. I guess I just have to go back into my anti 3D mode and face the hangover.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


dormouse
Half-elven

Oct 27 2010, 7:10pm

Post #344 of 364 (4323 views)
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Nah - keep partying! [In reply to] Can't Post

It's been a long, long ride (and who wants to think about 3D today! Wink )


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 27 2010, 7:12pm

Post #345 of 364 (4040 views)
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Cast out the fools and let the struggle begin afresh. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 27 2010, 7:14pm

Post #346 of 364 (4072 views)
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I conceed. But I need a Bloody Mary to find my inspiration.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket

(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Oct 27 2010, 7:14pm)


Richie Rich
Rivendell


Oct 27 2010, 7:18pm

Post #347 of 364 (4270 views)
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Here ya go, mate [In reply to] Can't Post





Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 27 2010, 7:19pm

Post #348 of 364 (4036 views)
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Indeed! the dawn is upon us.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket

(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Oct 27 2010, 7:19pm)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 27 2010, 7:21pm

Post #349 of 364 (4327 views)
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Now being a follower of del Toro... [In reply to] Can't Post

This is tomato juice?

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 27 2010, 7:23pm

Post #350 of 364 (4268 views)
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Don' mourn. Organize! "Joe Hill" of the Industrial Workers of the World.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket

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