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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
**CoH Discussion** I. The Childhood of Túrin: 1. Ancestry

squire
Valinor


Jun 18 2007, 12:05pm


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**CoH Discussion** I. The Childhood of Túrin: 1. Ancestry Can't Post

The story opens with a detailed account of the ancestry and marriage of Húrin.

A. Many reviewers of The Children of Hurin have criticized this “genealogical” opening, as being both dull and confusing. Do you agree? How else, or where else, might the story have started, within the confines of Tolkien’s text? How important is “readability” to the Tolkiens, father and son?

B. How can Húrin be “fiery in mood” and yet have the “fire in him burn steadily”?

C. Isn’t it kind of comic to imagine Húrin as the shortest among his kin, while younger brother Huor is the tallest of all the Edain? Why does Tolkien create this visual image? Will you carry it with you as the brothers interact together later in the story? Should Alan Lee have drawn a picture of these two young men?

D. Ditto for Morwen. Isn’t she taller than her husband? Is the story telling us that she is “stern of mood and proud” because she is “saddened” by her family’s exile? Or was she always like that?

E. We learn that Urwen (Lalaith) will die young. Why give this away?

F. Although Rian’s (the wife of Huor) little story here is sort of touching (who does she remind you of? why?) in fact she will never be heard from again in this story. Is her inclusion in this introduction justifiable?



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


(This post was edited by Eledhwen on Jun 19 2007, 8:07pm)

Subject User Time
**CoH Discussion** I. The Childhood of Túrin: 1. Ancestry squire Send a private message to squire Jun 18 2007, 12:05pm
    begats be boring a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Jun 18 2007, 12:21pm
    As usual, you Prepared! Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 18 2007, 4:27pm
    not a big fan of the opening Menelwyn Send a private message to Menelwyn Jun 18 2007, 6:17pm
        Or you could have the Gaffer Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 18 2007, 7:38pm
    For me, a major flaw Aunt Dora Baggins Send a private message to Aunt Dora Baggins Jun 18 2007, 7:35pm
        Seriously, I recently Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 18 2007, 7:48pm
            I saw that post and thought it was a great idea.// Aunt Dora Baggins Send a private message to Aunt Dora Baggins Jun 18 2007, 7:52pm
        Doesn't LotR give its ending away? // N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 23 2007, 4:22am
    All these names and thumbnail sketches Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 18 2007, 11:40pm
        Húrin, Túrin, Durin. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 23 2007, 4:32am
    The rest of my reply. Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 19 2007, 11:27am
        Not quite a throwaway line. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 19 2007, 12:56pm
            Childer of Hurin as a saga Stanislaus B. Send a private message to Stanislaus B. Jun 19 2007, 5:17pm
                Yes, Beowulf starts out in a similar vein.// Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 19 2007, 7:03pm
                But did original listeners of Njal's Saga... N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 23 2007, 4:40am
    untimely deaths Wynnie Send a private message to Wynnie Jun 19 2007, 12:44pm
    Saga style, plus a question Modtheow Send a private message to Modtheow Jun 20 2007, 2:26am
        An answer FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Jun 20 2007, 7:01am
            What I like about it in LotR Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 20 2007, 12:19pm
                I enjoy the archaisms in LotR too FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Jun 20 2007, 2:23pm
                    CoH suffers for having multiple styles. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 20 2007, 3:17pm
                        Still not satisfied Modtheow Send a private message to Modtheow Jun 20 2007, 4:07pm
                            "As for the Bears, they throve and multiplied..." N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 23 2007, 5:30am
                        But the first chapter... N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 20 2007, 5:02pm
                            Not so difficult words? Stanislaus B. Send a private message to Stanislaus B. Jun 20 2007, 5:27pm
                                I don't think it's about comprehension FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Jun 20 2007, 6:01pm
                                The words aren't difficult. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 20 2007, 6:41pm
                                    Not difficult, by archaic Stanislaus B. Send a private message to Stanislaus B. Jun 20 2007, 6:56pm
                                        "easy and comfortable" vs "engaging" squire Send a private message to squire Jun 20 2007, 7:28pm
                                            Yes, there are two different issues here. Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 22 2007, 2:09pm
                                        "Dwelt" for "lived". N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 23 2007, 5:45am
                                    Well, Eco is a very interesting writer FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Jun 20 2007, 7:40pm
                                        "written to please himself"? N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 23 2007, 5:59am
                            I've just been reading through FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Jun 20 2007, 5:50pm
                                Some more "over-written" authors Stanislaus B. Send a private message to Stanislaus B. Jun 20 2007, 6:09pm
                                    Tom Shippey uses a similar argument. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 20 2007, 6:45pm
            Tolkien's style Stanislaus B. Send a private message to Stanislaus B. Jun 20 2007, 4:41pm
                Some really good comments at that link! N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 20 2007, 5:26pm
                *mods up* thanks for that blog link Wynnie Send a private message to Wynnie Jun 20 2007, 6:28pm
                The Worm Hour-oh-bore-us a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Jun 20 2007, 8:34pm
                    Childer of Hurin are a saga Stanislaus B. Send a private message to Stanislaus B. Jun 20 2007, 9:27pm
                        Why don't people write sagas anymore? N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 20 2007, 9:44pm
                        yes, but the question is a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Jun 20 2007, 11:04pm
                            terse and impersonal = saga Modtheow Send a private message to Modtheow Jun 21 2007, 3:03am
                                There's subject-matter and then there's style FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Jun 21 2007, 9:15am
                                    The flowers of the wild, the Tigers of Detroit. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 21 2007, 5:49pm
                                        Yes, I thought about that FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Jun 21 2007, 8:11pm
                                            Of course we are. Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 21 2007, 8:52pm
                                                You can't write bad... N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 21 2007, 8:55pm
                                                But if the style is meant FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Jun 21 2007, 9:21pm
                                                    It's worse than dialect. Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 21 2007, 10:17pm
                                                        Tolkien liked to hone his writing style by reading it out loud squire Send a private message to squire Jun 21 2007, 10:27pm
                                                            At least he never wrote an epic Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 22 2007, 12:12am
                                    "The flowers of the wild" tells/describes a lot more Daughter of Nienna Send a private message to Daughter of Nienna Jun 23 2007, 4:27am
                                        It's a dandy line. // N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 23 2007, 4:33am
                                            I find it rather prim, Rose. // a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Jun 23 2007, 2:31pm
                                hmmm, well. yes. a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Jun 21 2007, 11:01am
                                    "Much have I seen, and much have I done." N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 21 2007, 11:59am
                                        ah, yes! Modtheow Send a private message to Modtheow Jun 21 2007, 1:23pm
                                            Stilted = artificial Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 21 2007, 7:24pm
                                                natural and authentic Modtheow Send a private message to Modtheow Jun 22 2007, 2:35am
                                                    Well, here's how the Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 22 2007, 3:06am
                                                    Now that's very interesting to hear FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Jun 22 2007, 8:19am
                                                        Tolkien's choices Modtheow Send a private message to Modtheow Jun 25 2007, 12:47am
                                                    What does bad saga-style writing look like? N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 23 2007, 6:15am
                                                        I must disagree with the assumption Stanislaus B. Send a private message to Stanislaus B. Jun 23 2007, 9:58am
                                                            The "simplest" language? N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 23 2007, 5:31pm
                                                                the easiest, most familiar Modtheow Send a private message to Modtheow Jun 23 2007, 6:07pm
                                                                No, I disagree. Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 24 2007, 7:33pm
                                                                    Elsewhere... N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 24 2007, 9:20pm
                                                                        Robert Graves did a great job Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 24 2007, 9:51pm
                                                                            Letter #171. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 25 2007, 1:27am
                                                                                Boy, compared to The Silmarillion Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 25 2007, 11:16am
                                                                                    LotR's narrator... N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 25 2007, 2:07pm
                                                                                        It didn't hit me in the face Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 25 2007, 2:22pm
                                                            I didn't make that assumption. Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 24 2007, 7:24pm
                                                        well....I said I didn't like it, not that it's inferior per se a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Jun 23 2007, 2:28pm
                                                            Same difference. Sort of. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 23 2007, 5:37pm
                                                                do we have a shared subjectivity? Daughter of Nienna Send a private message to Daughter of Nienna Jun 23 2007, 8:27pm
                                                                    nicely said! Wynnie Send a private message to Wynnie Jun 23 2007, 9:42pm
                                                                        Please do! Daughter of Nienna Send a private message to Daughter of Nienna Jun 23 2007, 10:27pm
                                                                        I would abandon that opening entirely. Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 24 2007, 8:22pm
                                                                            I get that and Daughter of Nienna Send a private message to Daughter of Nienna Jun 25 2007, 5:29pm
                                                                                And it is overwhelming without real purpose. Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 25 2007, 5:54pm
                                                                    Do you like other fantasies? Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 24 2007, 8:19pm
                                                                        I never called Daughter of Nienna Send a private message to Daughter of Nienna Jun 25 2007, 7:26pm
                                                                            Unnecessary. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 25 2007, 7:52pm
                                                                            hold up!! a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Jun 25 2007, 9:40pm
                                                                                LOL ! N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 25 2007, 9:50pm
                                                                                Your Majesty! Modtheow Send a private message to Modtheow Jun 26 2007, 12:20am
                                                                                ROTHFL Daughter of Nienna Send a private message to Daughter of Nienna Jun 26 2007, 12:43am
                                                                            Let me rephrase. Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 26 2007, 2:03am
                                                                                Proper beginning of discussion Stanislaus B. Send a private message to Stanislaus B. Jun 26 2007, 3:38pm
                                                                                    "consciously selected style and language" N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 26 2007, 4:40pm
                                                                                    After all this discussion, though, Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 26 2007, 4:47pm
                                                                                    I'm glad you wrote that about Paradise Lost. GaladrielTX Send a private message to GaladrielTX Jun 26 2007, 5:35pm
                                                                    A poor phrase. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 24 2007, 9:32pm
                                                                Holy Eru! What are we arguing about, again? :-) a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Jun 23 2007, 11:51pm
                                                                    Bows to point. Points to bow. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 24 2007, 12:48am
                                                        Sort of like Modtheow Send a private message to Modtheow Jun 23 2007, 5:57pm
                                                            Some Tolkienists like to suppose... N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 23 2007, 6:05pm
                                                                a medievalist strategy Modtheow Send a private message to Modtheow Jun 23 2007, 6:31pm
                                                                    Fun! N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 23 2007, 6:46pm
                                                                The fate of modern literature Stanislaus B. Send a private message to Stanislaus B. Jun 23 2007, 8:06pm
                                                                    Many factors influence which literature survives and which literature does not. Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 24 2007, 8:14pm
                                                            I hate to be a snob, and Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 24 2007, 7:43pm
                                                Thank-you Daughter of Nienna Send a private message to Daughter of Nienna Jun 23 2007, 5:42am
                                                    Tolkien's linguistic skills Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 23 2007, 1:07pm
                            "they say" N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 24 2007, 5:19am
                More good comments by Simon... N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 22 2007, 5:29am
                    Fascinating! and depressing squire Send a private message to squire Jun 22 2007, 10:34am
                        Few other series are multivolume novels. Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 22 2007, 1:53pm
                    I see Wynnie Send a private message to Wynnie Jun 22 2007, 12:17pm
                        ...said the blind man dna Send a private message to dna Jun 22 2007, 8:52pm
                            I was cheap Wynnie Send a private message to Wynnie Jun 22 2007, 10:06pm
                                and easy dna Send a private message to dna Jun 23 2007, 12:22pm
                                    Stop that! Wynnie Send a private message to Wynnie Jun 23 2007, 2:13pm
                                        sorry, but... dna Send a private message to dna Jun 23 2007, 10:17pm
                                            oh, dear Wynnie Send a private message to Wynnie Jun 23 2007, 10:48pm
                                                my dna Send a private message to dna Jun 24 2007, 3:03pm
                                                    "geeky" Wynnie Send a private message to Wynnie Jun 24 2007, 4:24pm
                            Wynnie is right... N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 23 2007, 5:56pm
        story-tellers of old Daughter of Nienna Send a private message to Daughter of Nienna Jun 22 2007, 7:46am
        Prose: Tolkien vs. Lawrence, Wolfe, Farrell, Fitzgerald. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 23 2007, 3:52am
    laughter & song will be short-lived in this tale Daughter of Nienna Send a private message to Daughter of Nienna Jun 22 2007, 7:30am
        Morwen and Rian Morwen Send a private message to Morwen Jun 28 2007, 12:55am
            yes, I ageree Daughter of Nienna Send a private message to Daughter of Nienna Jun 28 2007, 5:47am
    Morwen the war-mongering huntress? N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 23 2007, 7:08am
        Hador, Morwen, Urwen, Hurin dna Send a private message to dna Jun 23 2007, 1:29pm
            How can Húrin be “fiery in mood” and yet have the “fire in him burn steadily” Stanislaus B. Send a private message to Stanislaus B. Jun 23 2007, 2:07pm
            Where are Marach, Malach, Magor and Hathol? N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 23 2007, 5:48pm
                my mistake dna Send a private message to dna Jun 23 2007, 9:32pm
    Huor is an easier target for orcish archers. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 24 2007, 9:45pm
    late as usual Saelind Send a private message to Saelind Jun 28 2007, 4:01am

 
 
 

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