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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Heated Q&A Between Helen Kelly and John Barnett
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Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Oct 25 2010, 7:31pm

Post #51 of 83 (432 views)
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A good point [In reply to] Can't Post

And a demonstration of NZAE's incompetent strategy. However, this does not mean that an agreement with NZAE should not be sought. If that is done, Warners might be demoted back to its previous negotiating strength, though that is not likely.

And I'm sorry, but I do not believe PJ when he says this was never about tax incentives. That is a huge part of this, and he should be honest about that.

My guess is that this public explosion is Warners' way of putting pressure on the NZ government to give it a better tax deal. The threat to leave NZ is just that - a threat. They will not act on it. They will threaten until a favorable deal is reached. Unless NZAE and the studio come to a sound agreement (which is sounds like they may have), the furor dies down, and the NZ government perceives that its leverage over Warners is greater.

Warners is acting like the NZ government is a poor little charity case that will bend over for it. If I was at the rally, I would have focused on them, not NZAE or MEAA or anyone else.


(This post was edited by Gandalf'sMother on Oct 25 2010, 7:32pm)


Richie Rich
Rivendell


Oct 25 2010, 7:34pm

Post #52 of 83 (424 views)
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Painful to read [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow, talk about a train wreck of an interview. To be honest, I'm surprised Helen Kelly stuck with it as long as she did; I was expecting to see that she had just walked out of it. I also think it's pretty adorable that she seems to believe that if she keeps saying, "It is resolved" over and over, it will become the truth.

P.S. And no, Gandalf's Mother, I am not being sexist.



(This post was edited by Richie Rich on Oct 25 2010, 7:36pm)


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Oct 25 2010, 7:35pm

Post #53 of 83 (402 views)
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This is exactly right [In reply to] Can't Post

And I am astounded at how quickly the public, and much of the NZ media, ate up this meme. Much, much easier to blame unions than the large corporations.


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Oct 25 2010, 7:36pm

Post #54 of 83 (396 views)
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Why not? [In reply to] Can't Post

Honest question. Is it simply because we want to see our Hobbit films?


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Oct 25 2010, 7:39pm

Post #55 of 83 (395 views)
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You seem to have it all worked out [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The threat to leave NZ is just that - a threat. They will not act on it. They will threaten until a favorable deal is reached.


Is that a fact? Or just a guess? If you're as certain as you seem to think you are, perhaps you should send an email John Key reassuring him that Warners have absolutely no intention to move the production and telling him not to give in to their demands for further incentives?


Owain
Tol Eressea


Oct 25 2010, 7:43pm

Post #56 of 83 (369 views)
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Not if the path that is taken is illegal.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

SAVE MIDDLE EARTH! FILM THE HOBBIT IN NEW ZEALAND!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Oct 25 2010, 7:45pm

Post #57 of 83 (384 views)
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Are you saying that the unions are not responsible? [In reply to] Can't Post

Then do you think that the boycott of The Hobbit was an intelligent move? If I were the unions I would have sat back and thanked my lucky stars that a five-hundred million dollar film production thought that my small country in a distant corner of the globe was a good shooting location, and allowed my members to take full advantage of this great fortune, rather than arbitrarily ordering them not to.


Moahunter
Rohan

Oct 25 2010, 8:25pm

Post #58 of 83 (368 views)
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The "interviewer" Paul Holmes [In reply to] Can't Post

is a bullying bigot who once (in)famously referred to Kofi Annan (Sec.General of the UN) as a "cheeky darkie".
When interviewing PJ outside The Embassy cinema before the world premiere of Return of the King called him "Michael"


Magpie
Immortal


Oct 25 2010, 8:27pm

Post #59 of 83 (361 views)
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wow... [In reply to] Can't Post

that puts a person in context of their behavior.

thanks.


LOTR soundtrack website ~ June 2010 : ROTK Lyrics Update!
magpie avatar gallery ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Oct 25 2010, 8:35pm

Post #60 of 83 (348 views)
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There is nothing shameful about getting a man's name wrong [In reply to] Can't Post

Though obviously I won't defend racist remarks.


shadowdog
Rohan

Oct 25 2010, 8:39pm

Post #61 of 83 (352 views)
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Please explain this to me. [In reply to] Can't Post

If WB was after better tax breaks, why were they pouring 100 million dollars into NZ for building sets and starting preproduction without bringing it up. It was until the international actors boycott that they even mentioned moving the filming out of NZ. Crazy


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Oct 25 2010, 8:39pm

Post #62 of 83 (356 views)
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Again... [In reply to] Can't Post

You're treating New Zealanders as some sort of third world charity case that should be grateful for any crumbs that fall off the table. Yes, New Zealanders should be excited about Warners coming to work there, but no, they should not be expected to roll over if they are being treated like charity cases. These are jobs and lives and livelihoods we are talking about, not just a fun romp in the park. Its easy for people, sitting on their computers and salivating about this project, to romanticize the project in that way. But the reality is that these are people with families, and human dignity must be respected.


(This post was edited by Gandalf'sMother on Oct 25 2010, 8:41pm)


shadowdog
Rohan

Oct 25 2010, 8:48pm

Post #63 of 83 (339 views)
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Well I don't live in a [In reply to] Can't Post

third world country and would love to earn the type of wages WB is offering in NZ; and I think most US residents working part-time at minimum wage would also jump at these "third world" wages.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Oct 25 2010, 8:49pm

Post #64 of 83 (339 views)
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The fact... [In reply to] Can't Post

...that thousands of people's 'jobs and lives and livelihoods' hang in the balance is all the more reason for the unions not to upset this balance. Have you noticed that the vast majority of workers who would benefit from The Hobbit filming in New Zealand have been strongly opposed to the unions' actions? Now why do you think that might be?

Yes, these are 'people with families'. They need to put food on the table and the unions are gambling with their futures and their families' futures.


Owain
Tol Eressea


Oct 25 2010, 9:09pm

Post #65 of 83 (315 views)
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The livelihoods that are in jeopardy are of the technicians [In reply to] Can't Post

Many of them are employees of companies (i.e. Weta Workshop, Weta Digital, Park Road Post). The actors are contractors and for many of them it is not their main source of income.

They are independent contractors.

SAVE MIDDLE EARTH! FILM THE HOBBIT IN NEW ZEALAND!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Oct 25 2010, 9:39pm

Post #66 of 83 (309 views)
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One movie should not set the standard for all films in New Zealand. [In reply to] Can't Post

The appropriate parties are the guilds, not a single movie production. Who would do the negotiating? Peter is a contractor to Warner Bros., which is the legal entity that owns the rights to the Hobbit. Peter is not able to negotiate on behalf of Warner Bros.

I think some of the people involved need a basic course in contract law.


dormouse
Half-elven

Oct 25 2010, 10:00pm

Post #67 of 83 (295 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Why? Because the media has already made the decision that Helen is "lying." Therefore, her opponents can simply claim she is lying, and get away with it.


Or because what she said was wrong, or she had misunderstood the contracts, not having his experience in the film business.....


Quote
Plus, its a little difficult to answer questions when both your opponent AND the interviewer, who is supposed to be impartial, is constantly interrupting you . . .


Are interviewers supposed to be impartial? In this country poliitical interviewers always take the opposite stance to the person they're questioning to test their position (and often in the hope of tricking them into admitting more than they intend). Some have a reputation for being particularly abrasive, and for constant interruption. In this case I'd agree with you that the interviewer had made up his mind which side he was on - I think it was also more difficult for Helen Kelly because she wasn't in the same room - but I don't excuse her performance on either ground. I reckon anyone who holds a senior position in the Trade Union movement ought to be able to deal with that kind of situation. The woman who took the union side in the discussion that followed certainly gave the interviewer as good as she got.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 25 2010, 10:04pm

Post #68 of 83 (293 views)
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This entire circus was caused by one man, Simon Whipp [In reply to] Can't Post

It was a request from him that set up the Screen Actors Guild boycott (members advisory/black list/cheese sandwich). He was acting on behalf of the members of New Zealand Actors Equity. He did not ask for a vote. I think the fast and loose use of the appellation "The Unions ignores the fact that NZAE is not an official union in New Zealand and a lot of "official" union members in the entertainment industries of New Zealand were horrified at what was happening.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster
New Zealand is as close to Middle-earth as you can get.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 25 2010, 10:18pm

Post #69 of 83 (286 views)
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Laissez faire Unions Don't Work! [In reply to] Can't Post

Action is necessary but it has to be conscionable and take into account possible outcomes. This fiasco initiated by Simon Whipp is neither of these things.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster
New Zealand is as close to Middle-earth as you can get.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket

(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Oct 25 2010, 10:26pm)


Elentari03
Rivendell

Oct 25 2010, 10:31pm

Post #70 of 83 (274 views)
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Have you been paying attention to this debacle at all for the past month?// [In reply to] Can't Post



Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 25 2010, 10:32pm

Post #71 of 83 (280 views)
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Does it to be a witch hunt. [In reply to] Can't Post

If so lets find Simon Whipp.

I find myself disagreeing with both sides in this argument. I do believe that an assumption of guilt is not a valid point to start an analysis of a complex social situation.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster
New Zealand is as close to Middle-earth as you can get.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 25 2010, 10:37pm

Post #72 of 83 (283 views)
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"I am not being sexist." Maybe not but your use of adorable is way too close.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster
New Zealand is as close to Middle-earth as you can get.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket

(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Oct 25 2010, 10:38pm)


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Oct 25 2010, 10:43pm

Post #73 of 83 (293 views)
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Thank you Kristen et al [In reply to] Can't Post

I had actually linked to that article yesterday in a related thread long since buried.Smile

I do not doubt that the guy saw something in Robyn (now lost presumably) that he admired at one time. However, since he and other members of SPADA are the ones who do the hiring around NZ, holding up public perception as a reason for not hiring someone is no different than putting them on the proverbial blacklist.

Either way, always a pleasure Ms. Thompson!

Just throwing this in here rather than flooding the board: As for the term "damaged-goods" being offensive? From the mouth of a professional, and a boss, yes, it is playing a bit loose, especially in a situation you are supposedly trying to resolve. I suppose it is better than calling them damaged-chattel though.


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Oct 25 2010, 10:44pm)


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Oct 25 2010, 11:14pm

Post #74 of 83 (275 views)
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Yes, sound bites all around [In reply to] Can't Post

When I raised the point that the things that PJ, Fran and PB were saying -- and the way they were saying them -- reminded me an awful lot of the way management usually sounds in these matters (repeating "the damage is already done" for instance) no one seemed to notice... or more importantly perhaps, care. I took this to mean that we accepted the fact that public rows often play out in sound bites and therefore required no further scrutiny.

Dodging direct questions has been observable on both sides, however. In fact, the 'Campbell Live' host was forced to ask the same direct question of PJ and Fran so many times that people mistook him as some sort of bully.

This is all well trodden (well, trodden at least) ground though; revisiting it at this stage of the game brings us no closer to resolving the issues before us... not that it is up to us to find a resolution mind youWink

Finally, Barnett could better demonstrate sympathy for the actresses by keeping them employed as opportunity allows.

(ps re "just to add," I thought it looked familiar but was happy to read it nonetheless. The less composting of thoughts around here, the better.Laugh)


Elven
Valinor


Oct 25 2010, 11:24pm

Post #75 of 83 (262 views)
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As previously happened with the boycott orders... [In reply to] Can't Post

The boycott was formally lifted the Sunday before last (by negotiation) but it was not removed from NZEquity site nor SAG. It remained until the following Thursday, after an interview with Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens who brought the issue to light. That was 5 days ago.
I suspect the recent lifting of the UK ban was done under the same circumstances - after media coverage highlighted the situation.
And 8 days is not 2 weeks.

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