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One Ringer
Tol Eressea
Oct 15 2010, 4:51pm
Post #1 of 7
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*** TTT-EE Appendices Discussion -- Editorial -- Three for One ***
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Welcome back to the Editorial Discussion this week. Continuing after the start of the story, we follow with the multiple plots that ensue.
EDITORIAL: REFINING THE STORY
--Part 2: Three for One--
"I think the editing of film two was more difficult in many ways... because of the multiple storylines ... we had three, four, even five storylines sometimes." (Jabez Ollsen, Additional Editor)
Though the stories were merged together (as they were seperate in the book), in the first stage of cutting Peter worked on each plot one at a time.
"The way that I cut it in The Two Towers rather than start at the beginning of the film ... I'm just going to cut one storyline at a time. So then we have our different plot threads ... and then the fun part ... is to experiment with the ways to intercut." (Peter Jackson).
Cutting a movie this way pushes the major strain of pasting the movie together in proper order towards the end of the process, and hypathetically makes the overall editing work more organized and straightforward.
Do you feel that this was a smart move? Might have it turned out differently had they done things the old-fashioned way and edited it intercutted from the beginning?
"Not only do you have three different storylines, but they are all so different in terms of pace." (Rick Porras)
Amidst the individual plots were doses of action, drama, suspense, and dialogue (namely from Treebeard).
"Peter and I used to squabble a bit over how long Treebeard's scenes should be." (Mike Horton)
"He reminds me of the sort of committee man." (Peter Jackson on Treebeard)
"Peter found the fact that the two hobbits were bored to tears and fell asleep amusing. I worried that if we did it in real time that we'd do it to the audience as well." (Mike Horton).
What are your thoughts on Treebeards position in The Two Towers? Does he bore the audience? Is this slow plot necessary? Is it even as slow as it seems?
Any other thoughts?
NEXT DISCUSSION: Pick-ups!
"Welcome. Wilkommen to Kino Das Bang Bang Boom Boom 1970 Gjong Hai Ich Habe Diese Nacht Wilkommen, 2004."
(This post was edited by One Ringer on Oct 15 2010, 4:52pm)
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weaver
Half-elven
Oct 15 2010, 10:04pm
Post #2 of 7
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Mike Horton doesn't sound like a Treebeard fan, does he?
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Good thing he wasn't asked to edit a version of FOTR that included Tom Bombadil...!
I do like that Jackson found it amusing that Merry and Pippin kept falling asleep in Ent-land. Like Tolkien, he has a knack for seeing the humor in things as well as the drama.
I did not know that Jackson edited each storyline and then intercut them -- but that makes perfect sense, really. I liked they way the way they switched back and forth, and I do think they paced it all pretty well. To me, the "mood" was the same in each part, even if the speed or type of action was different, so the scenes reinforced the thrust of the story, rather than competed with each other. I imagine this was pretty tricky to pull off. Tolkien, I know, used the phases of the moon to help keep track of what was happening at what time in each part of the story; for Jackson, it seems more based on the mood/rhythm of the film as a whole, perhaps?
One of these days, I'm going to just watch the scenes for each storyline in a row to see how well each plot line hangs together. On Treebeard, I suspect, the Fangorn part is not quite as slow as it seems on screen -- everything else is so frenetic, it's hard for Treebeard not to seem reaaallly slow by comparison. Individually, he's probably just fine! And actually, I never found the Ent scenes all that bad -- at least they never put me to sleep! I was actually kind of surprised Jackson kept the Ents -- they were hard to pull off. I wonder if they were included in the original two-script version they planned...I suspect if they were cutting something, Treebeard might be the first to go!
Weaver
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One Ringer
Tol Eressea
Oct 16 2010, 2:23am
Post #3 of 7
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I recall one late night a couple of years back when I was watching TTT. It got to Treebeard's Entwives poem, and it was during the sweeping shots of Fangorn that I started to dose (so sue me if I got caught into the magic of Treebeard, but I was tired at that hour  ). It hasn't happened since, but I think if I ever need something to help put me to sleep I can rely on Treebeard's poem.
To me, I don't find Treebeard's scenes very slow; they're actually quite easing form the rest of the movie. The only time I can say it has a distinct abnormality from everything else would be towards the start of the battle for Helm's Deep when it abruptly cuts from the midst of battle to the Entmoot. Just a sudden silence and halt that can take you off guard at times. Not that it's a bad thing, but it's one of only a couple moments that back what Mike Horton was talking about.
"Welcome. Wilkommen to Kino Das Bang Bang Boom Boom 1970 Gjong Hai Ich Habe Diese Nacht Wilkommen, 2004."
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weaver
Half-elven
Oct 16 2010, 11:30pm
Post #4 of 7
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The Sil makes a good bedtime story for me...
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I always fall asleep reading that text!
I kind of liked the Entmoot break as the battle begins -- I'm not a huge fan of the fighting scenes, so it was nice to take a break with some talking trees for awhile...
Weaver
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sador
Half-elven
Oct 17 2010, 8:49am
Post #5 of 7
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You did an excellent job when leading "Of the Sindar" in the RR
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Are you somnabulistic by any chance?
"Welcome, and well met!" - Gloin.
The weekly discussion of The Lord of the Rings is back! Please join us in the Reading Room.
"What's the big hurry? It's been 17 years (at least) since Gandalf started to have suspicions about the Ring. It will be months after the Council before the Fellowship sets out. So why does the Council have to be this morning, so soon after Frodo woke up, and before he has had even one chance of a mind-clearing, relaxing walk in the woods?"
- FarFromHome.
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weaver
Half-elven
Oct 17 2010, 4:28pm
Post #6 of 7
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I think I did sleepwalk my way through that discussion...nice to hear it made sense!
For me, with the Sil, it's like eating a very heavy meal -- I enjoy it, but I need a nap after a few pages. I managed that chapter by doing it in little bits and pieces...it was good it was a short one or I would never have gotten through it in a week...
Weaver
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Peredhil lover
Valinor
Oct 18 2010, 5:07pm
Post #7 of 7
(362 views)
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For me it seems logical to edit every storyline thoroughly on its own before intercutting them. Ok, I've got no knowledge about that sort of work, but in my eyes it should be easier to keep track of a certain storyline and if everything is in it that's necessary and if it makes sense when you edit it in one go. That back and forth between different storylines may be ok for watching it, to give you an idea what happens where at the same time, but to my unknowledgeable mind, it sounds more difficult to keep track of everything that way.
As for the Ents ... it was enough to show that they are a bit slow, but not long enough to bore me into dozing off. And the Ents were at least something where I really looked at the animation and wondered how exactly it was done. But of course, Merry and Pippin didn't have that possibility, so it's understandable that they fell asleep 
I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.
TORn Link Collection
TORn Travelling Journal website
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