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Sunflower
Valinor
Sep 29 2010, 8:33am
Post #251 of 330
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Gramma, it's been 2 days and it's a breech birth. The baby is strangling on the cord. This has got to end...we need a C-section, STAT!
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dormouse
Half-elven
Sep 29 2010, 8:42am
Post #252 of 330
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I've been wondering that too....
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... about Guillermo's comments regarding the complicated politics involved - at the time it seemed as if he meant studio politics, or people speculated that he'd fallen out with PJ. It adds another dimension to his leaving, if this was all rumbling on in the background and you could well understand why he might feel it was too difficult for a non-New Zealander to deal with.
I've just watched the video link on the main page about the actors' meeting, and watching them coming and going, with their demands and the odd snidey comment - 'we're not millionaires' (well no, dear, few of us are) - I couldn't help but wonder how many of them had even auditioned for parts in 'The Hobbit'. And I couldn't help feeling irrationally disappointed in Craig Parker (the only one there I'd ever heard of) for being a part of this...
As SirDennisC remarked pages before, 'Tolkien and the Arkenstone'. I wish they would all go away, sit down somewhere quiet and read the book. And think about what it means....
I'm tired and depressed by all this. Just when things were looking so hopeful.... Eucatastrophe now. Please.
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Sunflower
Valinor
Sep 29 2010, 9:20am
Post #253 of 330
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I'm not even halfway through this thread, I have a LOT of catching up to do, but this whole thing disgusts me. Studio politics is one thing, and greed another, but this is epic. To see this flare up overnight into such an international spectacle...people, countries, organizations falling all over this project like a pack of rabid dogs.... is repulsive, when it is just a FILM. To read all this, you'd think they are fighting over the construction of a highwa system, the relocation of an international corporation's headquarters, or a miltary base. It's just CELLUOID (or digital) folks. The sums of money that are involved here, the profit, while vast, isn't like anybody's GDP.
Well, wait, Accepting Kristen's figures, the ultimate value of LOTR (10 billion) is nothing to sneeze at...so let's say when all is said and done...6 billion?
Still, disgusting...I am, to quote a U2 song title, truly now the "Lady With The Spinning Head"...I dread the rest of this thread!
(This post was edited by Sunflower on Sep 29 2010, 9:23am)
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dormouse
Half-elven
Sep 29 2010, 10:11am
Post #254 of 330
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Referring to my post above which I can't now edit, I meant 'Thorin and the Arkenstone', not Tolkien. Sorry, SirDennisC, and anyone else for the confusion!
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Pioneer
Rivendell
Sep 29 2010, 10:24am
Post #255 of 330
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I apologize if someone else has already posted this helicopter footage of Hobbiton as it looks today.
http://www.3news.co.nz/Heli-flyover-of-new-Hobbit-set-/tabid/315/articleID/178811/Default.aspx
Nick Frost for Bombur
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Sunflower
Valinor
Sep 29 2010, 10:46am
Post #256 of 330
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Just likje the legal boys and girls took, what, 2 years to sort out the New LIne alwsuit, another 2 yrs to sort out the Tolkien Estate lawsuit, 2 years of TH pre=production that dragged on and on while MGM rattled in death throes? And now this? I cannot even begin to imagine PJ's state of mind right now. Let's not forget how bitter he must still be at the MGM situation, that had not only cost him his director, but also the3 chance to work with Stephen Spielberg on Tintin, which he was looking forward to. And he's already not happy about having to live up to TH exopectations vs LOTR--which was the intial reason he used to not want to direct. Can we imagine the pressure this man usa under...and now from left filef, THIS.
The studios are fed up. PJ is fed up. The actors are fed up. And if this drags on, like it is beginning to (oh, how WELL the unions planned this...as if they knew how the respoinse would pan out, and the conflict take shape) I can only hope the people of NZ will get FED UP. It might really take people in the streets, urging the Prime Minsister to take direct action, to save "Middle-earth."
I wonder how Helen Clark would have resolved this, but she's no longer in power...
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Earl
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Sep 29 2010, 10:49am
Post #257 of 330
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I've been needing something good to look at in all this mess and this is it! 
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sphdle1
Gondor
Sep 29 2010, 11:18am
Post #258 of 330
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I'm not talking about the little guy
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I'm talking about the big bully that represents the little guy. I know all too well the importance and need of unions. I also know how 'some' unions operate...they become more like the greedy corporation resorting to dirty tactics that don't end up hurting the corporation, but hurt others in an attempt to put pressure on the organization. Sometimes they go too far with it, and in this case, as a fan of these movies, and knowing how many NZ actors would be out of work, this particular union needs a good kick, because they waited for the worst possible moment for us to do this. As it's been stated, this is a political issue, not a production one, and Jackson legally can't negotiate with the unions...the union knows this, but are continuing knowing full well that this will likely put the project so far off path (as if it wasn't already off path enough), that it will end up in Europe.
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sphdle1
Gondor
Sep 29 2010, 11:35am
Post #259 of 330
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Everything you say makes sense
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The issue is that Jackson unfortunately can't negotiate with the unions on this. The unions need to be talking with the government first, as this is out of Jackson's hands. If MEAA's plan is to flex their muscles, get the government to hear their cries, and they at least get the government to start acting on resolving it, then power to them and the little guy, so long as they don't hold this over Jackson's head too long to the point where the movie is put in jeopardy and can't be made in NZ.
They need to understand that if they let this go on too long, they are holding 2000 NZ actors hostage, and potentially lose out on years of steady work, not to mention millions of fans hostage. I hope the unions get the government to chime in and commit to working towards a solution, and that they back off on the boycott while this gets worked out.
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sphdle1
Gondor
Sep 29 2010, 11:42am
Post #260 of 330
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and have seen how Vancouver and Toronto started booming because of lower production costs; however now that the Canadian dollar has been close to par with the US dollar for some time, it is increasingly less cost attractive to film here as it once was.
In NZ's case, I hope the government has enough pressure now, steps in immediately and talks with the unions on the condition that they stop the boycott...thus the point would have been taken and addressed without causing major employment issues in the mean time.
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sphdle1
Gondor
Sep 29 2010, 12:11pm
Post #261 of 330
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that the cost of production is what will keep the Hobbit in NZ or not...!? If so, I disagree with that assumption. They weren't even talking about moving to other countries and had already built the Hobbiton set, along with all the WETA team to remain in NZ, and it is only because of MEAA that they may be forced to shot at other locations in the world.
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squire
Half-elven
Sep 29 2010, 1:28pm
Post #262 of 330
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We should remember that there is one thing everyone in all these pre-production struggles can and do take for granted: the fans. Whenever these movies are made, whoever makes them, next year or in ten years, "millions of fans" will go see them.
No one is holding us hostage. No one is even thinking about us. We'll always be here for them, and they know it.
I know some here have sworn that isn't so.They'll "boycott" The Hobbit if Jackson doesn't direct or McKellan isn't in it - or now, if it isn't shot in New Zealand. Maybe a few such fans will hold to their defiant promises if the dire event occurs. But not millions. This book has been popular and loved for 70 years, and its cousin LotR even more so.
These disputes are about who gets how much of the money represented by a permanent and devoted fan base, not how to most quickly serve those fans for fear of losing them.
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd (and NOW the 4th too!) TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
 = Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.
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Tim
Tol Eressea
Sep 29 2010, 2:03pm
Post #263 of 330
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Fer sure Hobbitton is moving right along - let's hope they get to use it. //
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King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Sep 29 2010, 2:11pm
Post #264 of 330
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Despite all the current hoopla it is nice to see a fully developed Hobbiton taking shape. I imagine we will be spending more time viewing Hobbition in the beginning of the film and maybe flash back scenes etc. Who knows, maybe some LOTR actors may pop up for cameo roles...sitting around Bilbo or Sam as he tells the tale to his kids etc.
This SAG info is just so off base:
http://www.sag.org/sag-member-alert-non-union-production-hobbit
This is the type of reaction that gives unions a bad name. They boil a complex problem to a simple misleading statement and tell the members not to participate. Pathetic.
(This post was edited by Eruonen on Sep 29 2010, 2:20pm)
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Kangi Ska
Half-elven
Sep 29 2010, 2:20pm
Post #265 of 330
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This vindicates the Scoop article that I swooned over(I guess)
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I hate interesting times.
Kangi Ska
Make the Hobbit Happen Now!
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Tim
Tol Eressea
Sep 29 2010, 2:28pm
Post #266 of 330
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These disputes are about who gets how much of the money represented by a permanent and devoted fan base, not how to most quickly serve those fans for fear of losing them.
The financiers may get the ball rolling but it's us that pay the bills.
King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.
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Tim
Tol Eressea
Sep 29 2010, 2:32pm
Post #267 of 330
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To heck with it I'm emailing SAG what have I got to lose?
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Their email address is saginfo@sag.org
Maybe it's time for the fans voices to be heard in all this mess. The SAG statement is factually wrong on all levels.
King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Sep 29 2010, 3:17pm
Post #268 of 330
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requesting that SAG clearly communicate the real issues at hand and correct their misleading statement etc.
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sphdle1
Gondor
Sep 29 2010, 3:19pm
Post #269 of 330
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what I meant by holding fans hostage, or maybe I didn't word it clearly.
In boycotting the Hobbit, unions are holding many fans across the globe hostage in the sense that we want to see these movies move ahead and be made without further interruption and without further changes to who is playing Gandalf, who is Producing it, etc. I think fans have waited long enough with all the issues to this point, but what the union is now doing is adding a whole new one to the fans fears, something we don't need at this point, and one that could jeopardize how the movie gets made (possibly not the way we wish), and thus in that sense they are currently holding all our hopes/fears hostage, until this gets resolved.
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Gorgori
The Shire
Sep 29 2010, 3:24pm
Post #270 of 330
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First:... Hello. L O O O N N N G G time reader, first time poster.
Second: Good idea.
Thirdly... I'd like to say that I'd second a motion to start a "pot/trust-fund" for extras, crew and so forth. I'd pledge 10 bucks right now... I'm sure there's many more that would do the same just to see these movies made by people who make movies for pleasure as equally, if not more so, as it is to make a living.
In the extras of the DVD, John Rhys-Davies said in a speech before burning his mask, that the effort and determination found in workers in NZ is amazing and NOT FOUND in Hollywood... That's because teamsters sucked all the magic of movie making and made it about money.
I'm all for workers rights.. I was a Millwright and General Machinist for 10 years. I've seen some poor guys shafted with "mandatory" over time, half dollar raises, and HORRIBLE treatment from employers. But that's were the government steps in. Labour Boards. Human Rights Commissions. Thats were regulated commissions, whose sole purpose is to protect an industry and its workers within a country comes into play. They have no other purpose (i.e. generating income, vying for political clout, etc). If a government doesn't do that, the industry will either pack up and go somewhere else, or a union will form, overstep its purpose, foster greediness, and eventually cause a global economic meltdown....
It really seems that this move by the SAG is to bully the NZ government to comply/be-assimilated or suffer the consequences (i.e. kill NZ film industry by eliminating its attraction factors to movie makers).
Sorry.. really long winded, but its been a really, really, REALLY hard two years following this thing. Having it not come to fruition is immensely disapointing...
Again.. sorry...
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Tim
Tol Eressea
Sep 29 2010, 3:25pm
Post #271 of 330
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Cool! Even NZ Actor's Equity isn't making the claim that The Hobbit is non-union.
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So what business does SAG have making that claim?
The NZ Actor's response to PJ's statement is here and this is where they state they are not claiming The Hobbit as non-union.
King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Sep 29 2010, 3:34pm
Post #272 of 330
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My apologies for looking too quickly. I should know better than that.
Edit to add: But thank you for your confidence (even though it was misplaced in this instance.  )
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
www.arda-reconstructed.com
(This post was edited by Voronwë_the_Faithful on Sep 29 2010, 3:35pm)
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Tim
Tol Eressea
Sep 29 2010, 3:37pm
Post #273 of 330
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A trust fund for the actors and crew - hmmm I like this idea - Voronwe where are you? Let's set this up. ;-)
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Thirdly... I'd like to say that I'd second a motion to start a "pot/trust-fund" for extras, crew and so forth. I'd pledge 10 bucks right now... I'm sure there's many more that would do the same just to see these movies made by people who make movies for pleasure as equally, if not more so, as it is to make a living.
Wouldn't it be cool to step into this mess with an entity taking donations for the cast and crew - by the fans? If 100,000 fans gave a $1 that all by itself would go a ways in helping compensate the little-knows and hard working crew members.
What say you "for the little guy" folks? I have no clue how to start something like this.
This would be an excellent way for fans to step in and take a hand in things. We don't have to finance an entire movie - just help un-clog this labor mess. Do we want this stuck in a legal time-warp or do we want to do something about it? Maybe it's time to stop worrying and start doing. This could show our support for New Zealand and The Hobbit and it doesn't interfere at all in the process the unions will have to go through anyway legally with New Zealand.
Can TheOneRing.net have a hand in this?
King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.
(This post was edited by Tim on Sep 29 2010, 3:43pm)
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Sep 29 2010, 3:41pm
Post #274 of 330
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I think it would be better if...
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any future actors involved and to be compensated by such a fund set up a collective account themselves that fans can contribute to...rather than us trying to do it from here.
Which of these best describes the current Hobbit status:
The following event(s) took place in Middle-earth on September 29:
Frodo reaches Bree at night (1418)
Gandalf visits the Gaffer (1418)
They come to the Grey Havens (1421)
Frodo and Bilbo depart over the Sea with the Three Keeper (1421)
The end of the Third age (1421)
My guess...between They Come to and depart over the Sea....let us hope not The End of...
(This post was edited by Eruonen on Sep 29 2010, 3:44pm)
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Tim
Tol Eressea
Sep 29 2010, 3:47pm
Post #275 of 330
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who knows any actors over there that could set up such a fund?
Either way we go I'm down for moving ahead on this idea.
Yes, I'm a guy. We're problem solvers. 
King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.
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