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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
From Variety: Unions to thesps:" Don't work on The Hobbit"
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Tim
Tol Eressea


Sep 29 2010, 12:52am

Post #226 of 330 (2872 views)
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*writes.. [In reply to] Can't Post

... "Eucatastrophe" in his mashed potatoes*

This MEANS something!

King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 29 2010, 12:55am

Post #227 of 330 (3003 views)
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Tolkien cioned the word [In reply to] Can't Post

to describe the ending of the quest to destroy the One Ring. Unexpected good outcome despite overwhelming odds.

Kangi Ska

Make the Hobbit Happen Now!

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Mooseboy018
Grey Havens


Sep 29 2010, 12:55am

Post #228 of 330 (2911 views)
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eucatastrophe [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been thinking of that word too, but not even Tolkien's epic hope inducing powers can help me now.Frown

This movie's "production" has been one long ride indeed. Sometimes waiting for a movie can be "half the fun", but now I'm just sick of it.


Tim
Tol Eressea


Sep 29 2010, 12:58am

Post #229 of 330 (2862 views)
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Sorry I knew that - was a lame "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" joke. ;-) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 29 2010, 12:59am

Post #230 of 330 (2898 views)
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The ride has made me a bit queezy [In reply to] Can't Post

but I am holding out for a joyous ending.

Kangi Ska

Make the Hobbit Happen Now!

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Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 29 2010, 1:02am

Post #231 of 330 (2923 views)
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OK...my mind was not moving in that direction [In reply to] Can't Post

but now that you hit me upside the head...Yes. In his tatters.

Kangi Ska

Make the Hobbit Happen Now!

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Eruonen
Half-elven

Sep 29 2010, 1:23am

Post #232 of 330 (2920 views)
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Great find [In reply to] Can't Post

From the article:

"So, while the unions would cop the blame if the production did up sticks and move to eastern Europe, a more deserving target would be a Key government religiously opposed to the level of tax concessions for film now available elsewhere in the sinful world. "

The effect of the lesser concession and higher union costs combined would make the bean counters look elsewhere...but they would have to consider all of the pre-production costs in place in NZ etc. first.

I am sure it will be sorted out after much posturing.


CINE
Bree


Sep 29 2010, 1:27am

Post #233 of 330 (2944 views)
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Good Scoop [In reply to] Can't Post

That's an excellent read. Thanks for that Cad Monkey!


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Sep 29 2010, 2:04am

Post #234 of 330 (2932 views)
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Your second quote is correct [In reply to] Can't Post

The original quotation (which I think was provided by Altaira) is correct. The Employment Relations Board found that Bryson was an Independent Contractor. Bryson appealed and initially won, but the Supreme Court of New Zealand reversed, reinstating the decision of the Board. Here is the Supreme Court of NZ's actual decision:

Bryson

- vs -

Three Foot Six Ltd

I would have to say that this calls into question the veracity of that entire article that everyone is swooning over, since he got this completely opposite from the truth.



'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 29 2010, 2:11am

Post #235 of 330 (2934 views)
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Good find. And it does bring the Scoop article into question. [In reply to] Can't Post

There has been more confusion on this thread than I have seen. I think that only time will sort it all out.

Kangi Ska

Make the Hobbit Happen Now!

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Sep 29 2010, 2:21am

Post #236 of 330 (2848 views)
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I think it may also be the fastest moving thread I have seen [In reply to] Can't Post

Rivaled, however, by the thread for when our dear friend Guillermo left his role as director.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


Tim
Tol Eressea


Sep 29 2010, 2:30am

Post #237 of 330 (2845 views)
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Admittedly I haven't weighed through the entire thing [In reply to] Can't Post

But

The Employment Relations Authority took the view that Mr. Bryson was a contractor.

then

Mr. Bryson elected to have the matter heard de novo by the Employment Court. In a reserved judgment delivered on 14 October 2003, Judge Shaw held that Mr. Bryson had been employed under a contract of service and so had been an employee

then

The Court of Appeal gave leave to appeal, saying that there was a qualifying question of law involved. By majority (William Young J and O’Regan J; McGrath J dissenting) it allowed the appeal of Three Foot Six and restored the determination of the Authority

then

We allow the appeal and restore the decision of the Employment Court, with costs to the appellant against the respondent to be fixed.

So... does this mean that the decision of the Employment Court is that the guy is an employee? If this is the case then it agrees with the writer of that article. What confuses me is the "we allow the appeal" but then they agree with the Employment Court and not the Authority.

I could be soooo wrong please slap me upside the head if I am. I suck at lawyer-speak.


King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.

(This post was edited by Tim on Sep 29 2010, 2:36am)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 29 2010, 3:11am

Post #238 of 330 (2834 views)
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I would trust Voronwë the Faithful's reading [In reply to] Can't Post

He is a lawyer.

Kangi Ska

Make the Hobbit Happen Now!

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Envinyatar
Registered User

Sep 29 2010, 3:16am

Post #239 of 330 (2850 views)
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I'm no lawyer but [In reply to] Can't Post

it looks to me like the person who posted the link missed out a step. The Supreme Court reversed the decision of the Court of Appeal and reinstated that of the Employment Court, that Mr Bryson was an employee.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 29 2010, 3:20am

Post #240 of 330 (2816 views)
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OK I surrender!// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska

Make the Hobbit Happen Now!

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entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Sep 29 2010, 4:18am

Post #241 of 330 (2914 views)
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Technically, there are no producers. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not at all surprised that Peter Jackson or the expected "producers" have not met with any actor groups. The films have not been greenlit, so Peter is not in any position to negotiate on behalf of the studio. It's the studio that will eventually hire any actors or crew, and Peter does not have a signed contract as producer. He does not have the authority to make promises regarding the wage structure.

sample


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Sep 29 2010, 4:30am

Post #242 of 330 (2843 views)
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You are correct; my apologies [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't look closely enough.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


Tim
Tol Eressea


Sep 29 2010, 4:34am

Post #243 of 330 (2830 views)
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I agree this is an extremely weird situation [In reply to] Can't Post

In my mind - so far - a group that's not even a union (NZ Actors Equity) who is aligned with a union (MEAA/Equity) that has no legal status in New Zealand (as it was struck off the Register of Incorporated Societies on 16 September) are talking with producers who do not legally exist because The Hobbit doesn't have a green light.

Crazy

SNAFU Sly

King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.

(This post was edited by Tim on Sep 29 2010, 4:36am)


Kimi
Forum Admin / Moderator


Sep 29 2010, 5:18am

Post #244 of 330 (2842 views)
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Both are true - no, really :-) [In reply to] Can't Post

And this *is* confusing, because so many names are involved. But let me attempt to unpick the Supreme Court's decision, which can be found here.

- Bryson took the matter to the Employment Relations Authority, which ruled that he was a contractor.
- Bryson then took the matter to the Employment Court. This court ruled that he was an employee.
- The case then went to the Court of Appeal, which ruled in favour of Three Foot Six "and restored the determination of the
Authority", i.e. that Bryson was an employee
- The case then went to the Supreme Court. This restored the decision of the Employment Court, i.e. that Bryson was an employee. The Supreme Court is our highest court, so this decision stands.


The Passing of Mistress Rose
My historical novels

Do we find happiness so often that we should turn it off the box when it happens to sit there?

- A Room With a View


(This post was edited by Kimi on Sep 29 2010, 5:23am)


Kimi
Forum Admin / Moderator


Sep 29 2010, 5:27am

Post #245 of 330 (2764 views)
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Yes, you're right. [In reply to] Can't Post

And said it in a less long-winded way than I did - I should have read your post first :-)


The Passing of Mistress Rose
My historical novels

Do we find happiness so often that we should turn it off the box when it happens to sit there?

- A Room With a View


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Sep 29 2010, 6:35am

Post #246 of 330 (2775 views)
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If tax incentives are the carrot [In reply to] Can't Post

maybe Michigan has a chance of scooping the production. The 40% they offer to film productions makes the Czech Republic's 20% look like an absolute rip-off!

Great article. I like that the author acknowledged that fan expectations should be considered in any threat of a move as well.


Silmaril
Rohan


Sep 29 2010, 6:49am

Post #247 of 330 (2789 views)
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meeting or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

"As a result of tonight's meeting, Actors Equity members have overwhelmingly resolved that its delegation meet the producers of The Hobbit to hold negotiations in good faith, taking in the terms and conditions for performers working on the production."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/...10676825&ref=rss


macfalk
Valinor


Sep 29 2010, 7:43am

Post #248 of 330 (2724 views)
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(EU) catastrophe indeed. [In reply to] Can't Post

 


durfalas
Bree


Sep 29 2010, 8:16am

Post #249 of 330 (2795 views)
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Dead end [In reply to] Can't Post

To me the most striking fact is that, according to PJ, there is no legal possibility to start negotiating with the unions because NZ laws simply forbid that. The unions must surely be aware of this and therefore the whole issue is, in my opinion, clearly an act of sabotage - a deliberate action of the unions against strengthening NZ film industry. It is also amazing to what extend those organizations support each other, I mean the letter of FIA to PJ and all that. Is is a bit like an international mob! Well, let us hope for The Hobbit production not to be moved overseas, in spite of all the beautiful locations that Eastern Europe may possibly offer, including my home country - Poland Smile

Elen sila lumenn omentilmo


Sunflower
Valinor

Sep 29 2010, 8:26am

Post #250 of 330 (2762 views)
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Can this be... [In reply to] Can't Post

one of those "political" things that James Cameron anticipated (or somehow had smelled coming in the wind--both the timing AND the organization and swiftness of the union move is surprising; it is apparent that this had been planned for a long time) and that Guillermo had been thinking of when he made the statement "These are very complicated films, both financially and politically"? At the time I thought he meant only the convoluted MGM situation and creative issues like 3D. (I am thinking about the radical new technology that we are going to be seeing in TRON (which I think is a Disney film) that is coming out in December, in which it is possible for the first time digitally "replicate" an actor at a younger/older age (goodbye Marlon Brando as the old Don and Robert Deniro as the younger one, in different films...)

Weired that this thought pops up now, but we are clearly on the verge of some radical shifts in the idustry and these will directly and profoundly affect actors. This has nothing to do with Th, of course, but like HM, I can;t for the life of me get what's going on here. HM< have you at last become, like me, a conspiracy theorist? *Wags finger* (I never knew you had it in you...*TongueWinkEvil

Now, I 'd like to know if Cameron and Del Tor did indeed smell something fishy on the wind, even if they knew not exactly what, but they had some rumors. Cmeron must have had time to observe the doiunbgs of the NZ unions in his time spent in NZ. He'd have heard rumblings there.

I don't think the MGM delays have any great role in this--yet. The dying convulsions of the once-great studio are genuine. I don't know though...the Creditors are desperate for money, and I have suspected that the greenlight might hbe delayed b/c they'd try to squeeze out too much of what should be WB's prodit share, since they're going to be overseeing the dirty work of production..

Oh, my brain is exploding! !WHAT NEXT!!!!

You know, at one poinht during the American Civil War, Lincoln wrote: "If there is a worse place then hell, I am in it." The same now can be said of PJ. He has fought for this project for the past 5 yrs and now have this happen...for HIM, of all peop,e to be painted as the bad guyby the unions on one side, when he the exception to the Hollywood rule; and for the studios to take advantage of the films' non-greenlit status to using him as a pawn threatening old studio threats on the otherside..HOW is he coping with all this. Any other person would indeed throw in the towekl at this point, but after goinbg thriough all this, and knowing how great the rewards will be..how can he stop now?

Someone mentioned The Wizard of OZ. To this I add GWTW. But the preliminary battle over TH has already gone on longer than the production scheules of those 2 films combiined...

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