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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
hobbit movie GDT
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 8 2010, 3:37pm

Post #126 of 151 (40705 views)
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While that does make sense [In reply to] Can't Post

I continue to believe that something more than the delays we are aware of led to this decision. Here is a good article in Entertainment Weekly that poses some of the same questions that I have been wondering about:

'Hobbit': Del Toro's explanation just leaves us with more questions

In particular, they point out that in an interview that they did with Guillermo when he was first signed up, he stated that this would be a half-decade commitment, which would bring it to the current planned release date of the second film (see here) and also that most of the other commitments that he has were entered into (or at least announced) after he signed up for the Hobbit project. So something happened to make him change his mind about this commitment. What that is, I doubt that we will ever know. Nor do I think that we even should know.

Fare thee well, Guillermo. We will miss you very much in Middle-earth.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


_V_
Lorien


Jun 8 2010, 3:41pm

Post #127 of 151 (37817 views)
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May the wind under your wings bear you where the sun sails and the moon walks [In reply to] Can't Post

This is very sad news.

Why, there was so much website-traffic that I could not even log into the messageboards when this news first came out

I had the good fortune to hear Guillermo talk about his work for an hour last year at an NYC event (in particular his thoughts on changing the Wargs back to iconic Norse direwolves...I hope that stays in)....and I really, REALLY appreciated that GDT came to our forums to interact with us, even if just to drop hints and riddles (which were fun)

But the long wait until we're "home" at Lonely Mountain again, when this long long production break is over, will one day come.

Even dragons have their end.

Thanks GDT: before you came along, there were just two years of negotiations that went nowhere; as soon as you came along, actual scriptwriting and pre-production started and it really got everything on "The Hobbit duology" project moving.

ReVolution of Evangelion

"Pleased to meet you, hope you guessed my name, but what's puzzling you, is the nature of my game"


Formerly known on TORN as "Draug the Unspeakably Violent"



Mark Sommer
Rivendell


Jun 8 2010, 3:55pm

Post #128 of 151 (41068 views)
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Comments on del Toro's post [In reply to] Can't Post

I have appreciated how Guillermo has been willing to share what he can with us in the Forum. He is a class act. Of course, many of us feel like Adam B. Vary of Entertainment weekly: Del Toro's explanation just leaves us with more questions.He compares Guillermo's post to the finale of the TV show LOST.

I also note that del Toro says he will continue on with the writing team "...moving the screenplays forward." Since PJ told us in April that the scripts had been submitted to the studio, it makes me wonder how much more del Toro has to contribute. He certainly won't have time to do re-writes during the shooting (a al LOTR), will he? Or has the studio demanded extensive re-writes before green lighting the project?

For further comments, I invite you to read my article on this in Examiner.com: Del Toro's Hobbit explanation understandable but not satisfying.

Please let me know what you think.

Mark Sommer
Hollywood Jesus The Hobbit Whole
Check out my review of the new Fan Film, Born of Hope. Born of Hope is first-rate film and great story


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Jun 8 2010, 4:34pm

Post #129 of 151 (41545 views)
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My thought has been [In reply to] Can't Post

that GdT, realizing the delays were conflicting with personal or professional timelines, understood that not having a firm go date (green light) meant that he couldn't finish what he started. I think part of his decision to leave could be that coming to that realization, he deemed it better to leave now so the director chosen to finish the job would have the entire project. I would be worse if GdT had to bail out after the start of principle photography.



Quote
"...moving the screenplays forward."



I've taken this as GdT saying that whatever he's already contributed, they can continue to use. Sort of like Stephen Sinclair getting credit for his work on the original screenplay for the 2-part LotR films.

Neat-o article, btw! We do leave wondering, don't we? ;)


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I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.



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Mark Sommer
Rivendell


Jun 8 2010, 5:02pm

Post #130 of 151 (77463 views)
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Thanks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for your kind words, grammaboodawg.

In context, the quote about "...moving the screenplays forward..." seemed to indicate to me that the group is still working on the scripts. That's how I interpreted it, anyway.



Mark Sommer
Hollywood Jesus The Hobbit Whole
Check out my review of the new Fan Film, Born of Hope. Born of Hope is first-rate film and great story


Buchanicus
Lorien


Jun 8 2010, 6:10pm

Post #131 of 151 (43060 views)
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Thank you Guillermo! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for everything! It pains me to see you go...the circumstances were not what was dreamed. But I know that the project will retain your stamp and your magic touch.

Thank you for being so open, and honest, and for speaking as directly to the fans as you were able to do and for always keeping us as much "in the loop" as you could.

The bright side is that I know we will see more of you through movies and books and all sorts of interesting and exciting projects (I've had The Fall on preorder for quite some time)! I know that whatever comes from your heart and mind will have passion unparalleled, and that is truly a gift.


Thank you.

TORn member formally known as ryan1976.


willowgreylock
Lorien


Jun 8 2010, 8:30pm

Post #132 of 151 (78535 views)
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Fare-Thee-Well [In reply to] Can't Post

Dear Mr. Del Toro,
Your message was informative, encouraging, but more than
that, very moving, you really touched my heart, to the point of tears welling up in
my eyes. I could really sense your anguish over having to leave the project, and
NZ. All of your reasons for doing so are quite understandable, nothing can be held
against you for parting. I am sure you will be so very missed by all involved, to
include those of us here. It was so good of you to leave of us with this message.
Best Wishes in all your endevors where ever they may take you.

Sincerely, Willowgreylock FrownEvilHeart


Eruthurin
Rivendell


Jun 8 2010, 9:50pm

Post #133 of 151 (42258 views)
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*Tears* Thanks for everything Guillermo, it's all I can say.... *hugs* [In reply to] Can't Post

Your post left me with no words.....

I'm still your fan #1 since "La Hora marcada" and I'll always be...... HeartEvil

:: All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you ::
Tapatía Orgullosa de tener al paisano Zapopano en la Tierra Media!.... :D


(This post was edited by Eruthurin on Jun 8 2010, 9:50pm)


tennie75
Lorien


Jun 8 2010, 10:49pm

Post #134 of 151 (42299 views)
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thanks for everything you have done and we appreciated the respect you have for us here best wishes always// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

******************************************
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.


Glaurung63
Lorien

Jun 8 2010, 11:37pm

Post #135 of 151 (77019 views)
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my thoughts as well.... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
that GdT, realizing the delays were conflicting with personal or professional timelines, understood that not having a firm go date (green light) meant that he couldn't finish what he started. I think part of his decision to leave could be that coming to that realization, he deemed it better to leave now so the director chosen to finish the job would have the entire project. I would be worse if GdT had to bail out after the start of principle photography.



Quote
"...moving the screenplays forward."



I've taken this as GdT saying that whatever he's already contributed, they can continue to use. Sort of like Stephen Sinclair getting credit for his work on the original screenplay for the 2-part LotR films.

Neat-o article, btw! We do leave wondering, don't we? ;) I think GDT knew he had to leave for multiple reasons, and wanted to help place a new director...one that would take his ideas into consideration, but would have the helm from start to finish...just my 2 cents...



(This post was edited by Glaurung63 on Jun 8 2010, 11:43pm)


jedihillis
Registered User

Jun 9 2010, 12:31am

Post #136 of 151 (183728 views)
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Sad [In reply to] Can't Post

To Mr. Del Toro,

I haven't posted on this site in years, but I had to come on to thank you for all our efforts thus far in trying to make The Hobbit happen. When I found out PJ wouldn't be directing it, I felt you were the best person to take the reigns. I am sadden that the current situation has forced you out of a dream project. However, I am thankful that you are making the best decision for you and your family. I truly hope that whatever influence you've had on the film in your time working on it, will be reflected upon screen. Thanks again and I look forward to your future projects. God bless.


Tintallë
Gondor


Jun 9 2010, 5:12am

Post #137 of 151 (73019 views)
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Deepest thanks, and may I add [In reply to] Can't Post

that after seeing Pan's Labyrinth, which was brilliant - BRILLIANT! - I was extremely happy and excited that you would direct The Hobbit. Your departure is perfectly understandable, but you will be sorely missed.


Kyriel
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jun 9 2010, 10:28am

Post #138 of 151 (145209 views)
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*tears up* I totally understand your decision, and I think most or all of us here do. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm very sorry to see you go, but I know it must have been extremely painful to wait so long for that green light, and painful to make the decision you did. I wish you all the best, and I hope your memories of your time on The Hobbit will be more sweet than bitter.


Those left standing will make millions writing books on the way it should have been. --Incubus


pasi
The Shire

Jun 9 2010, 3:51pm

Post #139 of 151 (103727 views)
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GdT a gentleman [In reply to] Can't Post

As we all suspect, Gulherme Del Toro is a gentleman and a great movie director, because only a man like this can spend his time in a fan site.

I hope, and I believe that you are in the premiere of the Hobbit movie.

But for now the next step for all Hobbit and Tolkien fans is help and suport PJ in the future of the hobbit movie, like we did on the past, in the case between PJ and New Line.
Best
pasi


Jai
Registered User

Jun 9 2010, 6:16pm

Post #140 of 151 (44489 views)
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Suggestion for GDT & Peter Jackson future "Middle-earth" projects: Numenor & Gondor ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Guillermo,

It is truly a credit to your integrity that you kindly offered such a thoughtful and detailed explanation for the benefit of LOTR fans on this forum. Other commenters here have already responded eloquently, so in the interests of brevity I won't repeat the excellent points they've made; suffice to say that your directorial input on the forthcoming prequels will be greatly missed, but it's great that you're still on-board in a creative capacity.

Apologies in advance if you've already been asked this (or if other commenters have already discussed the idea elsewhere) -- I'm new to this forum and haven't gone through the extensive previous discussions:

Have you and Peter Jackson considered collaborating on movies dealing with any of Tolkien's other "prequel" stories ? From a personal perspective, I was thinking that the rise and eventual catastrophic downfall of Numenor has huge scope for a series of movies, possibly on an even grander scale than the phenomenal LOTR trilogy. The following is optional, but maybe it could be supplemented with one or more follow-up films focusing on the founding of Gondor & Arnor, the subsequent war involving the "last alliance of Elves and Men" and the defeat of Sauron, finishing with the death of Isildur and the loss of "the ring".

As you no doubt already know, these historical events are summarised in the Appendices of the LOTR book along with The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales.

Again, the visual and dramatic scope is absolutely incredible, especially as it would show Numenor and later Gondor at the height of their power and grandeur; it would also place the events of the LOTR trilogy into their proper wider context within Tolkien's overall story arc (including explaining the actual ancestral & "Atlantis" geographical origins of Aragorn's royal dynasty, who & what Sauron actually is, etc etc). The ending would also tie in very nicely with the existing LOTR films along with the impending Hobbit movies.

The depiction of the story would obviously have be very carefully thought-out, especially as some sections of it cover thousands of years of history (which would need to be selectively condensed at various points); also, maybe Christopher Tolkien could lend a hand with constructing the actual dialogue in order to realistically expand the often-brief (sometimes non-existent) dialogue summarised in the prequel books, so that it remains faithful to the style of his father's work.

Just a friendly suggestion anyway; thanks to your very considerate message on this thread, we're all aware of the reasons you had to withdraw from continuing to direct the Hobbit movies. However, I'm sure that you and Peter Jackson would do a fantastic job if you did eventually decide to make films about the events I've mentioned, and of course there are countless fans worldwide who would be extremely excited to see you both bring this part of Tolkien's Middle-earth story to life in your signature visually-stunning styles.

All the best,
Jai


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Jun 9 2010, 9:06pm

Post #141 of 151 (83140 views)
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Christopher Tolkien is unlikely to assist. [In reply to] Can't Post

He has stated that he doesn't feel his father's work is suitable for cinematic adaptation. Also, as J.R.R. Tolkien sold the film rights only to The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, material from The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales is not available. That means that filmmakers wishing to tell the story would have to rely solely on the LOTR appendices, and as you note, these contain a very limited amount of dialogue. The filmmakers would have to invent more than they did for LOTR films.

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squire
Valinor


Jun 9 2010, 10:52pm

Post #142 of 151 (45465 views)
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He might like opera, though [In reply to] Can't Post

I've often thought along the lines Jai has specified, except that the medium should be grand opera, not film. I bet Christopher Tolkien would willingly write three or four librettos "in his father's style" that someone like Howard Shore could set to music in a suitably grand but restrained operatic idiom. The advantage of opera is that the lyrics and dialogue are very compressed, letting the music frame the drama. Since there is almost no dialogue and very few "living" characters written by J.R.R. Tolkien for any of the historical epics Jai (like all of us) is fond of, the less invention the better. There's no actual movie in any of those stories, except what the screenwriters would invent. But Shore and C. Tolkien ... who knows what they could do on the stage of the Met or the Royal Opera?



squire online:
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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Jun 10 2010, 12:08am

Post #143 of 151 (42046 views)
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Doubtful. [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't speak to Christopher Tolkien's musical tastes, but while he might permit such adaptations to be made, is it not exceedingly unlikely that he would himself write them? So far as is known, his only attempt at writing in his father's style (beyond a few short connecting phrases in The Children of Húrin) are some passages in The Silmarillion, preeminently a large part of the story of Doriath's fall. However, that work was a collaboration with Guy Kay who, unlike Christopher, has proven to have a great interest himself in writing fiction. And Christopher has expressed some regrets about exceeding his editorial capacity in creating those passages.

(For reference, particularly for those less familiar with the subject, here I meant to link to Voronwë's helpful recent essay summarizing Christopher Tolkien's work editing his father's texts, but I can't get the Hall of Fire to load, as has happened several times over the past few days. Perhaps Voronwë can supply a link.)

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 10 2010, 8:55pm

Post #144 of 151 (40059 views)
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Here you go [In reply to] Can't Post

A Fascinating and Unique Collaboration

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


squire
Valinor


Jun 10 2010, 9:28pm

Post #145 of 151 (44881 views)
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Wait.. where's the fat lady? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for that! A nice review of C. Tolkien's lifelong collaboration with his father. I had hoped you were going to reveal an unfinished opera libretto, but I'm not really surprised at its absence...

A few quibbles. C. Tolkien's undeniable achievements as a scholar do not, I think, rate the elevated praise of your "Christopher then went on to parallel his father’s professional success in academia." The phrasing would imply to a casual reader that C. Tolkien's academic career was of the same magnitude and impact on the field as his father's. That is simply not the case, as you surely know.

Secondly, C. Tolkien did not "create" the maps of Middle-earth, as your description and Diana Glyer's review seem to say. Rather, he re-drew his father's "working" map manuscripts, to make them presentable and then publishable. The quality of his draftsmanship and the style of his cartography are first-rate, and well deserve any reviewer's compliments about their contribution to a reader's enjoyment of J.R.R. Tolkien's stories. But as C. Tolkien makes perfectly clear in his HoME series, it was JRRT who drew all the maps originally - it was the author himself who created and first drew up (piece by piece) the geography of The Hobbit's Wilderland, The Silmarillion's Beleriand, and the most famous land of all, The Lord of the Rings' Middle-earth at the end of the Third Age.

Quibbles aside, thanks again for such a considerate and well-informed essay!



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 10 2010, 9:45pm

Post #146 of 151 (44273 views)
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Well quibbled! [In reply to] Can't Post

You are certainly correct on both points. I'll probably try to edit it to clarify those points, particularly regarding the maps.

I'm glad it wasn't ignoratated! Wink

I'm curious to hear more about your idea of Christopher (or anyone else) adapting aspects of Tolkien work to opera, particularly the story of the fall of Numenor. I think it is a very intriguing and potentially excellent idea.

I should take this opportunity to mention, though I suspect that you probably know this already, that there was an opera made of the Lay of Leithian a couple of years ago. See here (warning, the website is hard on the eyes).

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


Eventides
Tol Eressea

Jun 11 2010, 4:58pm

Post #147 of 151 (38170 views)
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Thank you for all that you've done! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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(This post was edited by Eventides on Jun 11 2010, 5:04pm)


M&M
Rivendell


Jun 12 2010, 3:57pm

Post #148 of 151 (150991 views)
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Good Luck, Guillermo... [In reply to] Can't Post

Good luck.


Jai
Registered User

Jun 13 2010, 11:23am

Post #149 of 151 (164652 views)
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Alternative scriptwriters for GDT/Jackson Numenor & Gondor movies ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for your kind responses, everyone (interesting idea about the opera too). I hope GDT reads my original post too -- at least so that he can consider my suggestion. I'm sure we'd all agree that it would be fantastic if a series of movies about the events I mentioned did become a real project at some point. Admit it folks, you're quietly getting a little bit excited just thinking about it.

Well, if Christopher Tolkien is unlikely to participate in the scriptwriting for any films, then (assuming Christopher doesn't violently object to the notion of any cinematic dramatisations full-stop, even if he has some reservations about the suitability) perhaps appropriate alternative writers could be the bestselling fantasy authors George R.R. Martin of The Song of Ice and Fire or Stephen Donaldson of Thomas Covenant fame. Both authors have openly acknowledged the fact that they have been heavily influenced by Tolkien, something which is already very obvious to anyone familiar with their books. I bet they'd happily jump at the chance if GDT & Peter Jackson ever approached them about requesting their services.

Given the very "adult" theme of Martin and Donaldson's own epics, especially the focus on some of the really nasty aspects of human behaviour, they could be particularly adept at dealing with the very dark subject matter of the escalating corruption of Numenor and its eventually disastrous fate; and as we all know, in the LOTR universe it ends up being quite literally an earth-shattering tragedy. Martin already has experience as a screenwriter, and his award-winning books are in the process of being adapted for television by HBO.

Stephen Donaldson and George R.R. Martin both have their own websites, including contact details (Martin actually has a blog too), so maybe someone should suggest this to them.....


nelson forero
The Shire

Jun 13 2010, 11:07pm

Post #150 of 151 (71507 views)
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strike 2 for peter jackson [In reply to] Can't Post

You know as painful as it is to accept guillermos decision to leave the hobbit.
I do understand where hes coming from from a family point of view. 6 years is along time to spend in another country.

Also hollywood is so ridiculious with all this contract BS the lord of the rings all 3 movies made more than 900,000 million dollars with the success of the trilogy the hobbit will surely top it so whats the problem?? your going to make your millions!!! it shouldnt take 6 years to make a freaking movie I sure as hell dont blame Guillermo for leaving. I also think that if tolkiens world is so complicated to bring unto the big screen then is best left alone this is the second time PJ has had problems with studios the HALO movie which sure enough wouldve been a smash hit but it didnt get the green lite either! this is strike 2 for peter jackson I think peter jackson should invent his own fantasy world and bring it to life on the big screen that way hollywood will stop playing all these stupid contract games!


(This post was edited by nelson forero on Jun 13 2010, 11:17pm)

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