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Tolkien Studies v. 4
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Wynnie
Rohan


May 27 2007, 3:56pm

Post #1 of 32 (1703 views)
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Tolkien Studies v. 4 Can't Post

This may be old news to some, but I don't remember it being mentioned here yet: the 4th annual volume of Tolkien Studies is out. In a February blog post, co-editor Michael Drout called it "perhaps our best issue". TORnadoes with university connections may have online access via Project Muse (if said university subscribes to the relevant package); a few large public libraries also offer Muse.

Here's the table of contents:

CONTENTS

Anderson, Douglas A. (Douglas Allen), 1959-
Drout, Michael D. C., 1968-
Flieger, Verlyn, 1933-
Editors' Introduction

Conventions and Abbreviations

Hostetter, Carl F.
Tolkienian Linguistics: The First Fifty Years

Anderson, Douglas A. (Douglas Allen), 1959-
Carl F. Hostetter: A Checklist

Fimi, Dimitra.
Tolkien’s "'Celtic' type of legends": Merging Traditions

Libran Moreno, Miryam.
Greek and Latin Amatory Motifs in Éowyn's Portrayal

Flieger, Verlyn, 1933-
The Curious Incident of the Dream at the Barrow: Memory and Reincarnation in Middle-earth

Drout, Michael D. C., 1968-
J.R.R. Tolkien's Medieval Scholarship and its Significance

Notes and Documents

Tolkien, J. R. R. (John Ronald Reuel), 1892-1973.
The Name "Nodens"

Croft, Janet Brennan.
Walter E. Haigh, Author of A New Glossary of the Huddersfield Dialect

Honegger, Thomas.
The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth: Philology and the Literary Muse

Burns, Marjorie.
Tracking the Elusive Hobbit (In Its Pre-Shire Den)

Kisor, Yvette L.
"Elves (and Hobbits) always refer to the Sun as She": Some Notes on a Note in Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings

Larsen, Kristine.
SAURON, Mount Doom, and Elvish Moths: The Influence of Tolkien on Modern Science

Book Reviews

Nelson, Dale.
The Company They Keep: C. S. Lewis and J.R R. Tolkien as Writers in Community (review)

Curry, Patrick.
Ents, Elves, and Eriador: The Environmental Vision of J.R.R. Tolkien (review)

Thompson, Kristin, 1950-
From Hobbits to Hollywood: Essays on Peter Jackson's "Lord of the Rings", and: The Lord of the Rings: Popular Culture in Global Context (review)

Garth, John.
The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide, Volume I: Chronology, and: Volume II: Reader's Guide (review)

Wickham-Crowley, Kelley M.
J.R R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: Scholarship and Critical Assessment (review)

Holmes, John R.
The Keys of Middle-earth: Discovering Medieval Literature through the Fiction of J.R.R. Tolkien (review)

Rosebury, Brian.
The Lord of the Rings 1954-2004: Scholarship in Honor of Richard E. Blackwelder (review)

Fisher, Matthew A.
The Philosophy of Tolkien: The Worldview behind "The Lord of the Rings" (review)

Amendt-Raduege, Amy.
The Plants of Middle-earth: Botany and Sub-creation (review)

Foster, Mike.
The Power of the Ring: The Spiritual Vision Behind the Lord of the Rings (review)

Curry, Patrick.
Reading "The Lord of the Rings": New Writings on Tolkien's Classic (review)

Anderson, Douglas A. (Douglas Allen), 1959-
The Ring of Words: Tolkien and the Oxford English Dictionary (review)

Dickerson, Matthew T., 1963-
The Rise of Tolkienian Fantasy (review)

Shippey, T. A.
The Roots of Tolkien's Middle Earth (review)

Straubhaar, Sandra Ballif.
A Tolkien Mathomium: A Collection of Articles about J.R.R. Tolkien and His Legendarium (review)

Reid, Robin Anne, 1955-
Tolkien's Modern Middle Ages (review)

Anderson, Douglas A. (Douglas Allen), 1959-
Book Notes



Bratman, David.
The Year's Work in Tolkien Studies 2004

Drout, Michael D. C., 1968-
Epstein, Rebecca.
Paar, Kathryn.
Bibliography (in English) for 2005

Notes on Contributors

* * * * * * *


If anyone has read any of these articles, summaries/reviews would be of general interest, I think.





None such shall return again.



Wynnie
Rohan


May 27 2007, 4:49pm

Post #2 of 32 (1484 views)
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the Sun as She [In reply to] Can't Post

And I'll start:
I found " 'Elves (and Hobbits) always refer to the Sun as She': some notes on a note in Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings" by Yvette L. Kisor quite interesting. To tell the truth, I barely remembered the footnote on which this article is based; it appears in FotR chapter 9, "At the Sign of the Prancing Pony", with the Man in the Moon song.
    The round Moon rolled behind the hill
    as the Sun raised up her head.
    She* hardly believed her fiery eyes;
    For though it was day, to her surprise
    they all went back to bed!

*Elves (and Hobbits) always refer to the Sun as She.


Some points made in the article:

  • In Greco-Roman (and, generally, western) tradition, the sun is thought of as masculine, the moon feminine. The sun was consistently associated with male deities, the moon with female.
  • Most Indo-European languages assign nouns a gender. In Greek, Latin, and the Romance languages, the words for sun and moon are masculine and feminine, respectively. However, in the Germanic languages, these genders are reversed.
  • Some translations of Old English texts actually switch the pronoun genders to fit the expectations of readers.
  • It's not only the Elves and Hobbits who call the Sun "She" and/or the Moon "He"; Kisor cites examples of Gondorians, Rohirrim, wild men, Dunedain, dwarves, wizards, "whatever Tom Bombadil is", and even the narrator doing so. But interestingly, Gollum, though he speaks often of the Yellow and White faces, never assigns them genders.


And here's the concluding paragraph:

    As is so frequently the case with Tolkien, what on the surface appears a simple note reveals much more. For those concerned with exploring Tolkien's interest in strong female figures the reversal of expectations he engages in here could be placed alongside a character like Galadriel. The note also provides yet another key into Gollum, whose construction of Sun and Moon as Yellow Face and White Face excludes him from the shared mythology of Middle-earth, further differentiating him from other characters. As well, Tolkien's resurrection of a submerged Germanic tradition offers a corrective not only to the Norman Conquest (assuming one sees that as an event requiring a corrective), but to the way assumptions rob us of perspective, and cloud our ability to see something in a new way. And finally, it speaks to the tendency for language to play the primary role in Tolkien's creative process, as here a fact of grammatical gender in the Germanic languages can be seen to suggest a reality later fulfilled in character and mythology. As Tolkien said, "my work [is] fundamentally linguistic in inspiration.... [T]here is a great deal of linguistic matter ... included or mythologically expressed" (Letters 219-220).






None such shall return again.



Beren IV
Gondor


May 27 2007, 5:31pm

Post #3 of 32 (1442 views)
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The Norse refer to the sun as "she" [In reply to] Can't Post

although, to them, the moon is a "she" as well, while to the Elves, the moon is a "he". It all boils down to Tolkien's mythical backstory, which, for a reader of LotR who has never read the Silmarillion, is unknown, and yet helps to provide a mythical feel for the story.

Once a paleontologist, now a botanist, will be a paleobotanist


Wynnie
Rohan


May 27 2007, 6:27pm

Post #4 of 32 (1435 views)
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Old Norse? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
although, to them, the moon is a "she" as well

Kisor gives these as the Old Norse words for sun and moon:
sól (f.)
máni (m.)
She also quotes from an Old Norse poem, Völuspá, in which the sun is "she" and the moon "he".





None such shall return again.



Beren IV
Gondor


May 27 2007, 7:26pm

Post #5 of 32 (1436 views)
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Okay, I misremember [In reply to] Can't Post

But this is where Tolkien got his source material.

Once a paleontologist, now a botanist, will be a paleobotanist


squire
Half-elven


May 28 2007, 1:04am

Post #6 of 32 (1440 views)
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There's some interesting questions that she leaves open [In reply to] Can't Post

I’ve always noticed that note in the Bree chapter and just thought it a bit of quaint Tolkien “difference.” Kisor does some nice work drawing it out and teasing some meaning from it.

I missed a couple of things I wish she had made clearer.

First, she mentions the classical sun and moon gods and goddesses: Apollo, Diana, and their similar Mediterranean incarnations. But although she shows that Germanic languages reverse the gender of the heavenly bodies, she doesn’t tell us if there is a Norse God of the Moon and Goddess of the Sun that would complete the reverse personifications in real life that Tolkien seems to have adapted for his mythology.

This is more important than it seems. She warns us that gender in names does not always equal gender in the object named. With regard to the Germanic/Norse/Old English linguistic tradition she is discussing, it would be good to know if that culture personified its Sun and Moon.

I had always understood that in our tradition, going beyond the classical gods personae to the reason the gods exist in the first place, the Sun is male because it is associated with the traditional patriarchal sky god (Jupiter, etc.), being the most prominent and necessary object in the entire sky. As well, I always thought the Moon was female because of the lunar cycle’s association with women’s menstrual period, whose very name (menses) comes from Latin for month.

I guess what I want to know is why the Germanic languages reverse the usual Indo-European standard in this matter.

Second, although she says that Tolkien’s reversal from modern English/Latinate custom can be joined with the character of Galadriel as evidence that Tolkien has an “interest in strong female figures”, her argument that Germanic linguistics influenced him seems to say otherwise. Since he was trying to create a so-called “mythology for England” that would evoke Old English mythemes that existed before the Norman invasion, he may have felt he had no choice but to make the sun female and the moon male!


On the other hand.


As Kisor points out, Tolkien when writing LotR in the 1940s was only following here a tenet of his existing mythology that goes back to the beginning in the post-WWI Book of Lost Tales. Despite significant differences (which she downplays – don’t ask unless you want to know) in the end in every version of the Silmarillion the light of the poisoned golden tree is captured in the Sun, which is guided by, and identified as, a female Maiar; and the silver tree likewise in the Moon steered by a male Maiar.

But there is a significant difference in LotR from all of Tolkien’s earlier writings about the legendarium, which may reinforce Kisor’s point about Galadriel.

Kisor gives in her notes citations that basically everybody in LotR (except Gollum) is heard to refer to the Sun or Moon by their Elvishly correct (and “subversive”) genders:

Every sentient being does so, from Men, whether those of Gondor, like Faramir; those of Rohan, like Éomer[13]; the wild men, like Ghân-buri-Ghân;[14] or the Dúnedain, like Aragorn; to Dwarves, like Gimli,[15] wizards, like Gandalf,[16] and whatever Tom Bombadil is.[17] And of course, as the note declares, Elves, like Legolas, [18] and Hobbits, like Merry,[19] Sam, and Frodo.[20] (Kisor, “Elves (and Hobbits) always refer to the Sun as She”, TS IV)


And she also shows that the authorial voice at times uses a gendered pronoun to refer to the Sun or Moon, although she admits there are also times when the neutral pronoun is used, as is correct in modern English.

The funny thing is, since LotR came along a good twenty-five years after Tolkien established this linguistic or cultural feature of his invented world, one might think he does the same thing in his earlier works too. But he doesn’t.

There are almost no references to the Sun by pronoun in The Silmarillion, but the two I found use the neutral “it”:

but the first Sun arose in the West, and the opening eyes of Men were turned towards it, (Silmarillion, Ch. 12)

[Morgoth’s host] came at night upon a time of festival, when all the people of Gondolin were upon the walls to await the rising sun, and sing their songs at its uplifting; (Silmarillion, Ch. 23)

The practice is similar in The Hobbit. The sun is mentioned very frequently, but almost never by pronoun; the three instances that I found again are neutral:

The sun had only just turned west when they started, and till evening it lay golden on the land about them. (Hobbit, Ch. 7)

The sun sank lower and lower, and their hopes fell. It sank into a belt of reddened cloud and disappeared. (Hobbit, Ch. 11)

A misty sun sent its pale light between the arms of the Mountain, and beams of gold fell on the pavement at the threshold. (Hobbit, Ch. 13)

Isn’t that interesting? Aside from the legend of the Sun and the Moon itself at the beginning of the Sil, there’s not a hint thereafter in any of his pre-LotR tales that the Sun or the Moon have any gender at all!

No wonder Tolkien felt constrained to footnote his romance (a very rare instance in LotR; and also odd in that Gandalf and Tom B. have already called the sun “her” before we even get to Bree). It’s almost as if Tolkien made a very conscious choice that he would bring the reversed heavenly gender to the fore in this story, as he had never felt constrained to do earlier.

And this is the same story in which he invented Galadriel to join the host of male power-figures that populate all his stories; she came so late to his imagination that he had to retrofit her (badly) into the Silmarillion legends, which had all been written already.

So perhaps Kisor is right after all!



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


Wynnie
Rohan


May 28 2007, 3:31am

Post #7 of 32 (1424 views)
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She did cover one of these [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
First, she mentions the classical sun and moon gods and goddesses: Apollo, Diana, and their similar Mediterranean incarnations. But although she shows that Germanic languages reverse the gender of the heavenly bodies, she doesn’t tell us if there is a Norse God of the Moon and Goddess of the Sun that would complete the reverse personifications in real life that Tolkien seems to have adapted for his mythology.


But she does:
    The Old Norse word for "sun" is sól (feminine); the word for "moon" is máni (masculine).... This text is more plainly mythological than the Old English Martyrology and personification is clearly intended--the sun has a hand and both sun and moon are figured as rational creatures. And indeed philology is in accord with mythology, as Sól is goddess of the sun and Máni god of the moon;11....

11 These are clearly mythological beings in Norse mythology; besides the passage quoted from Völuspá, see for example ...



In Reply To
Second, although she says that Tolkien’s reversal from modern English/Latinate custom can be joined with the character of Galadriel as evidence that Tolkien has an “interest in strong female figures”, her argument that Germanic linguistics influenced him seems to say otherwise. Since he was trying to create a so-called “mythology for England” that would evoke Old English mythemes that existed before the Norman invasion, he may have felt he had no choice but to make the sun female and the moon male!


Good point. It struck me as odd to see Galadriel popping up in the summary, when she'd made no previous appearance in the article--though the sun's precedence was discussed, and I suppose any mention of female power in LotR brings her to mind. But your question remains: was Tolkien creating a strong female figure or simply following Old English tradition? Hard to say.

The lack you report of sun/moon genders in the Hobbit and the Sil complicates the picture; thanks for bringing that up. I was originally amazed that anyone could extract so much meaning from a one-line footnote, but it seems there's still room for further exploration.





None such shall return again.



Saelind
Lorien


May 28 2007, 3:44am

Post #8 of 32 (1435 views)
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TS Vol 4 [In reply to] Can't Post

I pre-ordered a copy from WVU so I hope it shows up this week.


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


May 28 2007, 3:50am

Post #9 of 32 (1428 views)
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Same here. [In reply to] Can't Post

I ordered in April -- the originally announced publication date was Apr. 30 -- and was told there would be some delay. Two weeks ago, Douglas Anderson said that trouble at the printer pushed the due date back one month. But my local public library has Project Muse access, and I've jumped the gun and read many of the articles already.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Detail from earliest version of Thror's MapTolkien Illustrated! Thanks to everyone who participated in our sixteen-week discussion of Tolkien-inspired artwork! New posts on this subject are welcome at any time.


Saelind
Lorien


May 28 2007, 3:57am

Post #10 of 32 (1420 views)
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Cheater! [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink


Wynnie
Rohan


May 28 2007, 11:08am

Post #11 of 32 (1418 views)
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I jumped the gun, then [In reply to] Can't Post

The issue just became available online a week or two ago, but the publisher's site shows an April publication date, so I assumed the print had come out earlier. Looking forward to more thoughts when more folks have copies in hand.





None such shall return again.



SilentLion
Rivendell

May 28 2007, 1:20pm

Post #12 of 32 (1419 views)
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Question about Connection between Tolkien Studies Journal and WVU [In reply to] Can't Post

I noticed the Tolkien Studies Journal is published by West Virginia University Press, but looking over the Editors and Editorial Board, it doesn't appear to me that anyone in that group has obvious connections to WVU. Is there a reason why WVU Press is the publisher for TS, or when they start a journal like this, do they just shop the journal around until they find a University Press that is willing to pick it up?

Thanks, I actually live in the Morgantown area and work for WVU (in a very non-Tolkien-ish speciality), and it would be cool to find out that there is a cache of Tolkien expertise right here.


Saelind
Lorien


May 28 2007, 2:17pm

Post #13 of 32 (1415 views)
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WVU Press [In reply to] Can't Post

I think WVU Press is just the publisher. The editors are associated with other universities.


Wynnie
Rohan


May 28 2007, 2:20pm

Post #14 of 32 (1419 views)
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"getting a new journal started was a nightmare" [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't answer your question, except to refer to this post from Prof. Drout's blog around the time the first volume was coming out. Sounds like the editors had to shop around for a publisher.





None such shall return again.



squire
Half-elven


May 28 2007, 2:48pm

Post #15 of 32 (1419 views)
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Have to get up earlier in the morning to beat Wynnie to the punch [In reply to] Can't Post

I recently read an account by Drout of how the editors of Tolkien Studies crossed paths with WVU Press. I can’t find it now, but if I remember, it was totally by chance. WVU wanted to publish a scholarly journal, and TS desperately needed an academic publisher.

Still archived on Drout’s blog is his announcement of the first issue, which gives additional hints of the problems they had starting up:

Sunday, March 21, 2004
Tolkien Studies volume I
The first volume of Tolkien Studies is now at the printer and should be available in April. Here you can see a copy of the brochure for Tolkien Studies I from West Virginia University Press. As you'll note from the Table of Contents, we've gotten some truly excellent scholars to contribute to this first issue, and I'm really pleased with how it all came out.

On the other hand, getting a new journal started was a nightmare that has taken years. Doug Anderson, Verlyn Flieger and I decided to found TS back in 2001 or even 2000 (that's how long ago it was; I can't really remember) and it's taken this long to get things together. The problem is one of those chicken and egg things: good scholars don't want to contribute until there is a press and a committment to publish. Publishers won't touch something, usually, until it's actually complete (this is the nightmare problem I'm having with the tenth-century poetry essay collection).

We went with the "if you build it, they will come" approach for TS, but for a long time it looked like we would either have to self-publish (with all the risks, the steep learning curve, etc.), or that the whole thing would collapse into humiliation.

Supposedly no one is starting new journals, and no one is starting single-author journals, so the publication of TS in April is a real tribute to the interest in J. R. R. T. and the quality of the best work being done right now.




squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


SilentLion
Rivendell

May 28 2007, 3:12pm

Post #16 of 32 (1410 views)
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Thanks for the info [In reply to] Can't Post

In the strange world of academia, it may actually be seen as a benefit that the editorial board is all from outside WVU, because that makes the decision to publish more objective.


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


May 29 2007, 3:02pm

Post #17 of 32 (1392 views)
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I did also [In reply to] Can't Post

I think I re-upped for another 3 years, which is a great deal if you can front the cash. One of the volumes is practically free if you pre-order the next three years.

Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.


NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows


squire
Half-elven


May 31 2007, 1:42pm

Post #18 of 32 (1390 views)
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Another indication of Tolkien's late emphasis on the gender of the Sun and Moon [In reply to] Can't Post

Here is the original text of "The Man in the Moon" verse, from 1923, that Tolkien adapted for use by Frodo in Fellowship.
The cat then suddenly changed the tune, The dog began to roar,
The horses stood upon their heads,
The guests all bounded from their beds,

And danced upon the floor.
The cat broke all his fiddle-strings,
The cow jumped over the moon,
The little dog howled to see such fun,
In the middle the Saturday disk did run

Away with the Sunday spoon.
The round moon rolled off down the hill,
But only just in time,
For the Sun looked up with fiery head,
And ordered everyone back to bed,

And the ending of the rhyme.


Contrast this with the final LotR version, which is the starting point for Kisor's entire essay, with its distinctive female Sun:

Now quicker the fiddle went deedle-dum-diddle;

the dog began to roar,

The cow and the horses stood on their heads;

The guests all bounded from their beds

and danced upon the floor.

With a ping and a pong the fiddle-strings broke!

the cow jumped over the Moon,

And the little dog laughed to see such fun,

And the Saturday dish went off at a run

with the silver Sunday spoon.

The round Moon rolled behind the hill

as the Sun raised up her head.

She hardly believed her fiery eyes;

For though it was day, to her surprise

they all went back to bed!

Now to be sure, the original poem was not meant to be part of the Silmarillion tales: it was a spoof on the old nursery rhyme. But it's clear that the female Sun in Frodo's poem is a conscious insertion by Tolkien during the writing of LotR, not part of some earlier conception.





squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


Curious
Half-elven

May 31 2007, 5:33pm

Post #19 of 32 (1385 views)
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It could have been changed to fit The Sil. [In reply to] Can't Post

My question is why the Sun is so rarely referenced by gender in The Sil, when the mythology behind it is clearly there. One possibility is that Tolkien did not emphasize that point until LotR. But other possibilities occur to me. Maybe there just isn't much dialogue in which the Sun is mentioned in The Sil, so the opportunity to refer to it by gender does not arise as often as in LotR.


squire
Half-elven


May 31 2007, 7:28pm

Post #20 of 32 (1391 views)
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That is true [In reply to] Can't Post

You're right that the lack of dialogue in the Sil is noticeable, and that is possibly why gendered pronouns so rarely come up in those texts, for the Sun and the Moon. There are also fewer descriptive scenes of landscape and situation in which the narrator might talk about them enough to refer to them a second time, requiring a pronoun.

Although the examples are rarer than dialogue, LotR's narrator also refers to the sun and moon by gender, though not consistently as Kisor notes; and I didn't do a thorough search on that front.

Another feature of LotR, besides more dialogue and a folksier narrator, is Tolkien's increased sensitivity to the presence and symbolic quality of the light that illuminates his story, which requires more notice, mention, and talk about the sky and its lights, the sun and moon.

Still, the use of gender for the Sun and the Moon is so noticeable in LotR - a footnote, for gosh sakes! - and so absent in the Hobbit and Sil (pending a thorough search of the HoME texts, too), that it feels like Tolkien had just discovered his own convention.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


Curious
Half-elven

Jun 1 2007, 2:47pm

Post #21 of 32 (1378 views)
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I think Tolkien had fun [In reply to] Can't Post

turning the "Hey diddle diddle" nursery rhyme into a song for Frodo to sing, then realized that the Sun should be female in order to fit the mythology of The Silmarillion, then made sure to add more references to a female sun throughout the book. That's what makes LotR so great; Tolkien already had a mythology/history to work with, and could write a story set in that world, often in ways no one could understand without reading The Sil.

My theory that the non-Eastern winds and weather and sun and moon and stars and pure water and eagles are all connected to the Valar depends heavily upon a reading of The Sil. Tolkien felt strongly that the Sil should be published with LotR. Why? I think it is because The Sil is a key to LotR, and explains many of the hidden references.

But as it turns out LotR was quite successful without The Sil, and as he says in Letter 144, he learned that "As a story, I think it is good that there should be a lot of things unexplained (especially if an explanation] actually exists)... " Then he became reluctant to publish The Sil for various reasons, including, perhaps, his fear of spoiling the magic of LotR by explaining too much.

So when we read LotR without the Sil, the fact that so many people refer to the Sun as "she," lends a sense of authenticity and mystery to the story, even though it is unexplained. There was little need, or little opportunity, to drop mysterious hints in The Sil itself, since The Sil leaves little unexplained, and has no other work on the scale of The Sil backing it up.

I don't think it occured to Tolkien to drop so many mysterious hints in The Hobbit, where he didn't make a concerted effort to integrate the story into the world of The Sil. The seed of this technique can be found in The Hobbit, of course, where references to Gondolin and Elrond and ancient rivalries between elf and dwarf slip into the story almost on their own. But for the most part Tolkien wrote The Hobbit independently of The Sil.

That was not the case in LotR. Indeed I believe The Sil is far more integrated into LotR than most people appreciate -- even readers familiar with both stories -- because Tolkien consistently maintains ambiguity and mystery, hinting at rather than explaining the references. The reference to the Sun as "she," I judge, is just one example of a technique which permeates LotR, but is rarely found in The Sil or The Hobbit.


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Jun 5 2007, 3:00pm

Post #22 of 32 (1356 views)
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It's now available. [In reply to] Can't Post

My copy arrived yesterday.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Detail from earliest version of Thror's MapTolkien Illustrated! Thanks to everyone who participated in our sixteen-week discussion of Tolkien-inspired artwork! New posts on this subject are welcome at any time.


Saelind
Lorien


Jun 7 2007, 3:47am

Post #23 of 32 (1345 views)
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TS Vol 4 [In reply to] Can't Post

Still waiting...


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Jun 7 2007, 3:51am

Post #24 of 32 (1340 views)
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Well, I had... [In reply to] Can't Post

paid for two-day delivery, under the mistaken impression that it would be released by the end of April, as I wanted it on hand for my trip to Kalamazoo. I expect yours will arrive soon.

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Detail from earliest version of Thror's MapTolkien Illustrated! Thanks to everyone who participated in our sixteen-week discussion of Tolkien-inspired artwork! New posts on this subject are welcome at any time.


squire
Half-elven


Jun 7 2007, 2:23pm

Post #25 of 32 (1348 views)
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My arrived the other day. [In reply to] Can't Post

It looks to be as good as its table of contents promised.

The cover is quite funny. You have to read Hostetter's mammoth review of the history of Elvish studies to get the joke, though.

I'm plowing through the second article now, the one on Celtic influences on Tolkien. Interesting stuff about the Elves being "fallen angels" in post-Christian Celtic myth, which adds a rich new layer to our previous discussions about the role of the Valar in the stories.

I'm about to find out more about the mysterious King Arthur poem!



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary

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