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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
"There are very real differences between Tolkien and his emulators"

Penthe
Gondor


May 24 2007, 1:09am


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"There are very real differences between Tolkien and his emulators" Can't Post

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There are very real differences between Tolkien and his emulators. The most significant is that the heroes of the Tolkienistas are almost always in search of power. All the heroes of The Lord of the Rings were anxious to divest themselves of power.

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This is a note to chapter seven of Farah Mendlesohn's Diana Wynne Jones: Children's Literature and the Fantastic Tradition. I found it rather interesting, but I think I don't agree with it entirely. I would argue that Aragorn, Theoden and Eomer at the very least are partly in a quest for 'power', and you could argue that Faramir is too (a Queen among Queens is not an image of powerlessness after all).

I suppose you could argue that these are not the 'heroes' of LOTR, though. Frodo certainly is trying to divest himself of the Ring, which symbolises the power to dominate others, but I'm not sure that he's trying to divest himself of 'power' entirely. And Sam ends up quite powerful in a way, through learning to harness his own energies and authority. As Gandalf says to Gimli in the forest, all of them are dangerous in their own ways, and I don't think you can be considered dangerous if powerless.

Also, I just really love how she calls the high fantasy imitators 'Tolkienistas'.

What do you all think?

Subject User Time
"There are very real differences between Tolkien and his emulators" Penthe Send a private message to Penthe May 24 2007, 1:09am
    Naw. Curious Send a private message to Curious May 24 2007, 2:15am
        Deed of Paksarrion Saelind Send a private message to Saelind May 24 2007, 2:34am
            Moon also outdoes Tolkien Curious Send a private message to Curious May 24 2007, 3:51pm
                I think you hit on something both ironic and important for the success of Tolkien's subcreation SilentLion Send a private message to SilentLion May 25 2007, 2:32am
                    Maybe. Curious Send a private message to Curious May 25 2007, 10:24am
                        Not sure I entirely believe you. Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth May 27 2007, 5:22pm
                            Oh absolutely, the Sil is a key to LotR. But Curious Send a private message to Curious May 27 2007, 6:24pm
                    Excellent point about the Sil. I also think Aunt Dora Baggins Send a private message to Aunt Dora Baggins May 26 2007, 3:58pm
                        2nd hand memories orcbane May 26 2007, 8:22pm
    I don't think that is universally true Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV May 24 2007, 2:34am
        Beren and Luthien did not inspire the genre. Curious Send a private message to Curious May 24 2007, 3:08am
            Very true, Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV May 24 2007, 5:32am
                Well, the genre was there before Tolkien. Curious Send a private message to Curious May 24 2007, 6:14am
                    Yes, I agree Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV May 24 2007, 1:18pm
                    I have to disagree about one point FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome May 25 2007, 11:20am
                        Maybe. Curious Send a private message to Curious May 25 2007, 12:33pm
                        In total agreement with you here. / mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Jun 1 2007, 10:01am
                    That's it, I would say!... But too hard on PJ... mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Jun 1 2007, 9:59am
    Brian Attebery would have a thing or two to say in response... weaver Send a private message to weaver May 24 2007, 5:38am
        "Raffel is convincing". N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand May 24 2007, 2:55pm
            Do get the book... weaver Send a private message to weaver May 25 2007, 1:17am
        ...but actually, he doesn't! weaver Send a private message to weaver May 25 2007, 6:19pm
    Mined out perhaps orcbane May 26 2007, 1:23am
        "by it's nature Sci-Fi left much more potential for development" ? squire Send a private message to squire May 27 2007, 8:03pm
        The great resurgence of interest in the Middle Ages Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth May 28 2007, 1:31am
    Looking Back, Looking Forward orcbane May 28 2007, 2:59am
        Indeed! Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV May 28 2007, 5:47pm
    Medieval mind orcbane May 29 2007, 12:48am
        Heh, and you think *history* is hard... Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV May 29 2007, 4:48am
            Better the pseudo you know than the pseudo you don't squire Send a private message to squire May 29 2007, 11:37am
        The closest we can come Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth May 29 2007, 7:50am
            Very true. mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Jun 1 2007, 10:20am
    Der Teufelsmauer orcbane May 29 2007, 11:57pm
        I can think of a number of other instances, Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV May 30 2007, 2:04am
            Live at the Orc Hold orcbane May 31 2007, 12:23am
                Except that the trains Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV May 31 2007, 2:35am
                    There is Haleth orcbane May 31 2007, 3:41am
                        Not what I mean by "unique" Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV May 31 2007, 4:28am
                            Amazons orcbane Jun 2 2007, 12:25am
                                No, I think we actually do agree Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV Jun 3 2007, 6:53am
                                    Yes, I would say orcbane Jun 3 2007, 12:05pm
                    'if Tolkien creates a character, it's a he, not a she': mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Jun 1 2007, 12:10pm
                        Apparently you misread me. Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV Jun 1 2007, 2:06pm
                            That doesn't leave much to the argument squire Send a private message to squire Jun 1 2007, 3:24pm
                                What I mean is Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV Jun 1 2007, 6:33pm
                                    Tolkien thought war was for males. Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 1 2007, 7:24pm
                                    Not Ioreth, but the Healer, perhaps squire Send a private message to squire Jun 1 2007, 7:49pm
                                        there could be wenches, though, serving ale at a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Jun 1 2007, 8:20pm
                                            Jackson Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 1 2007, 8:43pm
                                            Nell and Bell for Nob and Bob? // N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 1 2007, 9:10pm
                                                Maybe Nell and Bob? squire Send a private message to squire Jun 1 2007, 9:58pm
                        PJ and Arwen SilentLion Send a private message to SilentLion Jun 3 2007, 1:30pm
                            Nice! One ques, One slight differ orcbane Jun 3 2007, 2:10pm
                                Yes, I agree very strongly Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV Jun 3 2007, 6:16pm
                                    Interesting ideas about Beren and Luthien SilentLion Send a private message to SilentLion Jun 3 2007, 11:28pm
                                        The problem at the very core Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV Jun 4 2007, 12:45am
                                            I think there are several reasons Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 4 2007, 11:15am
                                                I know I am incredibly late to the party, but I just had to say this. NiennaSorrowing Send a private message to NiennaSorrowing Jun 15 2007, 6:10pm
                                                    Catching up on old posts, I see! Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 15 2007, 7:17pm
                                                        I am! But I am so delighted I found this place; indulge me. NiennaSorrowing Send a private message to NiennaSorrowing Jun 15 2007, 8:07pm
                                                            I might like to read fanfiction Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 15 2007, 8:28pm
                                                                Sil fanfiction and LotR fanfiction are very different things. NiennaSorrowing Send a private message to NiennaSorrowing Jun 16 2007, 12:37am
                                                                    Sure, I'm interested. Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 16 2007, 2:28am
                                                                        I'm always happy to pimp my favorite authors. NiennaSorrowing Send a private message to NiennaSorrowing Jun 16 2007, 2:39am
                                                                            Does "rec" mean "recommend"? N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 16 2007, 3:31am
                                                                                *laughs* NiennaSorrowing Send a private message to NiennaSorrowing Jun 16 2007, 3:39am
                                                                                Very well written, but Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 16 2007, 12:11pm
                                                                            Do you find the novelistic style fulfills the unspoken promise you've praised? squire Send a private message to squire Jun 16 2007, 3:43am
                                                                                *laughs again* NiennaSorrowing Send a private message to NiennaSorrowing Jun 16 2007, 4:17am
                                                                            Maybe not Curious Send a private message to Curious Jun 16 2007, 11:05am
                                                    Fascinating discussion you're having way down here. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 16 2007, 2:17am
                                Glorfindel was one of the leaders of the Elven City Gondolin in the First Age SilentLion Send a private message to SilentLion Jun 3 2007, 6:38pm
                                    It's too bad Tolkien never redid the Fall of Gondolin in the same detail as it is in BoLT II! Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV Jun 4 2007, 12:22am
                                Glorfindel's reincarnation. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Jun 13 2007, 9:17pm

 
 
 

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