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Penthe
Gondor
May 24 2007, 1:09am
Views: 615
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"There are very real differences between Tolkien and his emulators"
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Can't Post
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Quote:
There are very real differences between Tolkien and his emulators. The most significant is that the heroes of the Tolkienistas are almost always in search of power. All the heroes of The Lord of the Rings were anxious to divest themselves of power.
`
This is a note to chapter seven of Farah Mendlesohn's Diana Wynne Jones: Children's Literature and the Fantastic Tradition. I found it rather interesting, but I think I don't agree with it entirely. I would argue that Aragorn, Theoden and Eomer at the very least are partly in a quest for 'power', and you could argue that Faramir is too (a Queen among Queens is not an image of powerlessness after all).
I suppose you could argue that these are not the 'heroes' of LOTR, though. Frodo certainly is trying to divest himself of the Ring, which symbolises the power to dominate others, but I'm not sure that he's trying to divest himself of 'power' entirely. And Sam ends up quite powerful in a way, through learning to harness his own energies and authority. As Gandalf says to Gimli in the forest, all of them are dangerous in their own ways, and I don't think you can be considered dangerous if powerless.
Also, I just really love how she calls the high fantasy imitators 'Tolkienistas'.
What do you all think?
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Subject
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User
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Time
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"There are very real differences between Tolkien and his emulators"
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Penthe
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May 24 2007, 1:09am
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Naw.
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Curious
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May 24 2007, 2:15am
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Deed of Paksarrion
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Saelind
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May 24 2007, 2:34am
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Moon also outdoes Tolkien
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Curious
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May 24 2007, 3:51pm
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I think you hit on something both ironic and important for the success of Tolkien's subcreation
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SilentLion
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May 25 2007, 2:32am
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Maybe.
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Curious
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May 25 2007, 10:24am
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Not sure I entirely believe you.
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Elizabeth
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May 27 2007, 5:22pm
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Oh absolutely, the Sil is a key to LotR. But
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Curious
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May 27 2007, 6:24pm
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Excellent point about the Sil. I also think
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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May 26 2007, 3:58pm
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2nd hand memories
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orcbane
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May 26 2007, 8:22pm
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I don't think that is universally true
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Beren IV
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May 24 2007, 2:34am
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Beren and Luthien did not inspire the genre.
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Curious
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May 24 2007, 3:08am
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Very true,
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Beren IV
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May 24 2007, 5:32am
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Well, the genre was there before Tolkien.
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Curious
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May 24 2007, 6:14am
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Yes, I agree
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Beren IV
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May 24 2007, 1:18pm
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I have to disagree about one point
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FarFromHome
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May 25 2007, 11:20am
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Maybe.
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Curious
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May 25 2007, 12:33pm
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In total agreement with you here. /
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mae govannen
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Jun 1 2007, 10:01am
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That's it, I would say!... But too hard on PJ...
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mae govannen
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Jun 1 2007, 9:59am
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Brian Attebery would have a thing or two to say in response...
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weaver
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May 24 2007, 5:38am
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"Raffel is convincing".
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N.E. Brigand
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May 24 2007, 2:55pm
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Do get the book...
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weaver
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May 25 2007, 1:17am
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...but actually, he doesn't!
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weaver
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May 25 2007, 6:19pm
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Mined out perhaps
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orcbane
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May 26 2007, 1:23am
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"by it's nature Sci-Fi left much more potential for development" ?
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squire
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May 27 2007, 8:03pm
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The great resurgence of interest in the Middle Ages
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Elizabeth
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May 28 2007, 1:31am
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Looking Back, Looking Forward
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orcbane
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May 28 2007, 2:59am
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Indeed!
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Beren IV
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May 28 2007, 5:47pm
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Medieval mind
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orcbane
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May 29 2007, 12:48am
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Heh, and you think *history* is hard...
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Beren IV
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May 29 2007, 4:48am
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Better the pseudo you know than the pseudo you don't
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squire
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May 29 2007, 11:37am
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The closest we can come
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Elizabeth
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May 29 2007, 7:50am
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Very true.
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mae govannen
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Jun 1 2007, 10:20am
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Der Teufelsmauer
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orcbane
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May 29 2007, 11:57pm
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I can think of a number of other instances,
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Beren IV
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May 30 2007, 2:04am
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Live at the Orc Hold
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orcbane
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May 31 2007, 12:23am
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Except that the trains
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Beren IV
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May 31 2007, 2:35am
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There is Haleth
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orcbane
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May 31 2007, 3:41am
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Not what I mean by "unique"
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Beren IV
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May 31 2007, 4:28am
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Amazons
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orcbane
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Jun 2 2007, 12:25am
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No, I think we actually do agree
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Beren IV
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Jun 3 2007, 6:53am
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Yes, I would say
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orcbane
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Jun 3 2007, 12:05pm
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'if Tolkien creates a character, it's a he, not a she':
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mae govannen
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Jun 1 2007, 12:10pm
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Apparently you misread me.
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Beren IV
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Jun 1 2007, 2:06pm
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That doesn't leave much to the argument
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squire
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Jun 1 2007, 3:24pm
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What I mean is
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Beren IV
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Jun 1 2007, 6:33pm
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Tolkien thought war was for males.
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Curious
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Jun 1 2007, 7:24pm
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Not Ioreth, but the Healer, perhaps
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squire
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Jun 1 2007, 7:49pm
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there could be wenches, though, serving ale at
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a.s.
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Jun 1 2007, 8:20pm
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Jackson
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Curious
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Jun 1 2007, 8:43pm
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Nell and Bell for Nob and Bob? //
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N.E. Brigand
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Jun 1 2007, 9:10pm
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Maybe Nell and Bob?
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squire
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Jun 1 2007, 9:58pm
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PJ and Arwen
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SilentLion
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Jun 3 2007, 1:30pm
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Nice! One ques, One slight differ
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orcbane
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Jun 3 2007, 2:10pm
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Yes, I agree very strongly
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Beren IV
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Jun 3 2007, 6:16pm
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Interesting ideas about Beren and Luthien
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SilentLion
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Jun 3 2007, 11:28pm
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The problem at the very core
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Beren IV
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Jun 4 2007, 12:45am
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I think there are several reasons
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Curious
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Jun 4 2007, 11:15am
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I know I am incredibly late to the party, but I just had to say this.
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NiennaSorrowing
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Jun 15 2007, 6:10pm
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Catching up on old posts, I see!
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Curious
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Jun 15 2007, 7:17pm
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I am! But I am so delighted I found this place; indulge me.
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NiennaSorrowing
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Jun 15 2007, 8:07pm
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I might like to read fanfiction
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Curious
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Jun 15 2007, 8:28pm
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Sil fanfiction and LotR fanfiction are very different things.
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NiennaSorrowing
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Jun 16 2007, 12:37am
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Sure, I'm interested.
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Curious
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Jun 16 2007, 2:28am
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I'm always happy to pimp my favorite authors.
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NiennaSorrowing
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Jun 16 2007, 2:39am
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Does "rec" mean "recommend"?
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N.E. Brigand
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Jun 16 2007, 3:31am
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*laughs*
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NiennaSorrowing
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Jun 16 2007, 3:39am
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Very well written, but
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Curious
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Jun 16 2007, 12:11pm
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Do you find the novelistic style fulfills the unspoken promise you've praised?
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squire
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Jun 16 2007, 3:43am
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*laughs again*
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NiennaSorrowing
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Jun 16 2007, 4:17am
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Maybe not
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Curious
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Jun 16 2007, 11:05am
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Fascinating discussion you're having way down here.
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N.E. Brigand
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Jun 16 2007, 2:17am
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Glorfindel was one of the leaders of the Elven City Gondolin in the First Age
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SilentLion
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Jun 3 2007, 6:38pm
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It's too bad Tolkien never redid the Fall of Gondolin in the same detail as it is in BoLT II!
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Beren IV
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Jun 4 2007, 12:22am
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Glorfindel's reincarnation.
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N.E. Brigand
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Jun 13 2007, 9:17pm
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