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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Main:
Help with "Speak friend and enter"?

MistyMountain
Lorien

Feb 21 2007, 3:27am

Post #1 of 21 (405 views)
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Help with "Speak friend and enter"? Can't Post

Hello all,
It has been a long time since my last posting and I was previously known as "cafe athelas". Since then, I have purchased a property in the Adirondack mountains of NY and I am trying to open a cafe called the Misty Mountain Bakery Cafe. I hope to open by the spring (but things are looking bleak Frown). Anyway, I plan to incorporate Middle Earth themes within the decor. I plan for them to be a bit subtle as I think going TOO heavy with the Tolkien stuff may turn some people off (at least that is what my family members are saying). I already decided to stencil "mae govannen" and "hannon le" on my entrance and exit doors (in Tengwar script, of course) but I also want to stencil the phrase "speak friend and enter" above the doors. I am not sure which portion of the text on the doors of Durin is that particular sentence. If anyone would know, it would be a TORN sib. Evil Please help!


linkin-artelf
Lorien


Feb 21 2007, 3:32am

Post #2 of 21 (157 views)
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don't have the answer [In reply to] Can't Post

but the cafe sounds like a cool place. Best of luck with it.

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"I walk along the shore and I gaze
At the light that radiates down
Will it travel forth to you
Far across this shimmering sea?"
formerly linkinparkelf


Finding Frodo
Tol Eressea


Feb 21 2007, 3:36am

Post #3 of 21 (164 views)
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My guess [In reply to] Can't Post

It looks to me like "Speak (or say) friend and enter" is what's coming down the right side of the arch in large letters.
I'm sure someone will come along with a definite answer. Meanwhile, welcome and enjoy the new boards! Best of luck to you with the bakery/cafe. I'd eat there!

Where's Frodo?


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Feb 21 2007, 4:46am

Post #4 of 21 (168 views)
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Finding Frodo's got it right! [In reply to] Can't Post

It's the script along the top, starting after the "O" and descending to the right.

The café sounds like a lot of fun - best of luck in getting it started! What town is it near (I go out that way occasionally)?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Still 'round the corner there may wait
A new road, or a secret gate...


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Feb 21 2007, 4:55am

Post #5 of 21 (166 views)
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Ostadan registered for the new boards today... [In reply to] Can't Post

and he may be the person here most qualified to answer your question, but there may be others with some knowledge of elvish script. I lack that knowledge, but this one may be manageable by even me:

I think "pedo mellon a minno" is "Say 'friend' and enter", so comparing the drawing of the Moria gate in "A Journey in the Dark" to the Tengwar table in Appendix E, I'm going to second Finding Frodo's conclusion that the upper of the two curves of text on the right side of the arch is your phrase, starting after the central "o" shape and dot in the keystone position.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Detail from earliest version of Thror's MapTolkien Illustrated! Jan. 29-May 20: Visit the Reading Room to discuss art by John Howe, Alan Lee, Ted Nasmith and others, including Tolkien himself.

Feb. 19-25: The Hobbit.


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Feb 21 2007, 4:56am

Post #6 of 21 (147 views)
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I was too slow... [In reply to] Can't Post

so I guess I third FF's guess, but unlike you I was only guessing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Detail from earliest version of Thror's MapTolkien Illustrated! Jan. 29-May 20: Visit the Reading Room to discuss art by John Howe, Alan Lee, Ted Nasmith and others, including Tolkien himself.

Feb. 19-25: The Hobbit.


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Feb 21 2007, 5:25am

Post #7 of 21 (168 views)
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The Tengwar script [In reply to] Can't Post

over the door is a slight variation of the script in the tables, which I'm "semi-literate" in. I like this script, both for its use of letters rather than the tehtar for the vowels, and for the roundedness of the letters.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Still 'round the corner there may wait
A new road, or a secret gate...


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Feb 21 2007, 5:39am

Post #8 of 21 (137 views)
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The table... [In reply to] Can't Post

is frustratingly incomplete, at least for someone of my very limited abilities. So I found when investigating the pronunciation of "Thráin" last fall.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Detail from earliest version of Thror's MapTolkien Illustrated! Jan. 29-May 20: Visit the Reading Room to discuss art by John Howe, Alan Lee, Ted Nasmith and others, including Tolkien himself.

Feb. 19-25: The Hobbit.


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Feb 21 2007, 11:18am

Post #9 of 21 (134 views)
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I remember you! Herre's link [In reply to] Can't Post

that'll make it possible for you to play with all sorts of transcription into Elvish in Sindarin, Tengwar and others. I'd click on the png option... that's where it works best for me!

http://tengwar.art.pl/tengwar/ott/start.php

Didn't you talk with us about your dream to open your dream before? It sounds so familiar! I'd love to visit if I'm ever in the area, so please be sure to let us know where you are located and how it's going :)

BEST OF LUCK!



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Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!

"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."


TORn's Observations Lists


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Feb 21 2007, 3:29pm

Post #10 of 21 (131 views)
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And the values vary. [In reply to] Can't Post

Which can be a pain. If the words are in English, then the values can be figured out; but if the words are Elvish, the values can be for either Quenya or Sindarin - or a variation, like the ones on the Doors.

If Tolkien had had any idea how involved people were to become in this "vast game", I wonder if he would have "cleaned up" the tables a bit? Probably not...that would hinder the "reality" of the written languages!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Still 'round the corner there may wait
A new road, or a secret gate...


elvenhobbit
Rohan

Feb 21 2007, 5:13pm

Post #11 of 21 (123 views)
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the elvish word for friend is 'mellon'. [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Elven by name, Hobbit by nature

'Road lead ever on and on
down from the door where it began
now far ahead the road has gone
down from where all began' -FOTR-

and through all the world has changed
the ages come and go with time
and yet those remain unchanged
unto they journey westward
over the sea...


Patty
Immortal


Feb 21 2007, 9:13pm

Post #12 of 21 (81 views)
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Good luck with it. I'll hope to get there some day. [In reply to] Can't Post

Meanwhile, be sure and post a menu when you get going. And let us know if ever you decide to ship orders. I'll definitely be your first customer then!

Lord Peter Wimsey's Main Squeeze


MistyMountain
Lorien

Feb 22 2007, 5:29am

Post #13 of 21 (107 views)
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Thanks to all who replied! [In reply to] Can't Post

I knew you kind folks would come to my rescue. And, yes, gramma, I had spoken of my dream previously on the old board but I think it was just fantasy at the time. Well, I have the property now and I hope I will be able to open soon. Unfortunately, things have been very tough and I am starting to lose hope. But, in these dark days, I keep hearing the words of favorite LOTR characters running through my head telling me not to despair and that "there is always hope" and it gives me strength. The central themes of LOTR (IMHO) -- hope, faith, friendship -- are keeping me focussed and moving forward. So, I will optimistically say that I will be open sometime this spring and I hope some of the TORN sibs who live in the NY metro area will take a drive up to the Adirondacks and pay me a visit (I have 3 rental cabins also!). I know it is probably frowned upon to promote a business website on these boards but some of you have expressed an interest in my venture so I am including my website address below:
www.mistymountainbakerycafe.com

Thanks again to all of you! Heart


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Feb 22 2007, 12:09pm

Post #14 of 21 (55 views)
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Thank you for the link! [In reply to] Can't Post

It's always nice to know where to find Tolkien-themed places to go, when travelling. It can be very tough, at the start of a venture: keep up your "hobbitry in heart"!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Still 'round the corner there may wait
A new road, or a secret gate...


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Feb 22 2007, 3:38pm

Post #15 of 21 (66 views)
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Excellent! Hobbity-warmth everywhere! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for this :) Best of luck and much success on your venture. The location looks absoltuly beautiful and inviting. Wonderful!



sample sample
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!

"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."


TORn's Observations Lists


Elf_Maven
The Shire

Feb 22 2007, 4:30pm

Post #16 of 21 (73 views)
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mellon = mellone [In reply to] Can't Post

I always liked the "mellon" because my *real* last name is Mellone. As an Italian name (not mine), it has roots in sweetness, soothing, and in my mind therefore: friendship.


elvenhobbit
Rohan

Feb 22 2007, 5:14pm

Post #17 of 21 (53 views)
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well mellon-nin....:) [In reply to] Can't Post

At least we cleared that up...Cool
-e_H-

Elven by name, Hobbit by nature

'Road lead ever on and on
down from the door where it began
now far ahead the road has gone
down from where all began' -FOTR-

and through all the world has changed
the ages come and go with time
and yet those remain unchanged
unto they journey westward
over the sea...


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Feb 22 2007, 11:49pm

Post #18 of 21 (97 views)
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Say 'Maven' and enter. [In reply to] Can't Post

*scratches "Elf Maven" from missing list*

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Detail from earliest version of Thror's MapTolkien Illustrated! Jan. 29-May 20: Visit the Reading Room to discuss art by John Howe, Alan Lee, Ted Nasmith and others, including Tolkien himself.

Feb. 19-25: The Hobbit.


Aerin
Grey Havens


Feb 23 2007, 7:15pm

Post #19 of 21 (48 views)
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Thanks for the link. [In reply to] Can't Post

I, too, remember your posting about this idea a long time ago. I'll mention this to my brother, who often hikes in the Adirondacks.


Ostadan
Rivendell

Feb 23 2007, 8:26pm

Post #20 of 21 (58 views)
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Be Consistent [In reply to] Can't Post

Make sure you use the same 'Mode' (Mode of Beleriand) seen on the West-gate for all your inscriptions, since all are in Sindarin (or, in the case of 'hannon le', Salo-reconstructed Sindarin; arguably, 'le hannon' (cf 'le linnathon', 'to thee I will sing') is just as likely to be 'correct'). http://greenbooks.theonering.net/.../files/tengtable.pdf gives Sindarin, Quenya, and Westron 'values' for the Tengwar (modeled after a very useful original by Lawrence Krieg).


MistyMountain
Lorien

Feb 26 2007, 4:29am

Post #21 of 21 (104 views)
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I was using this site to help with translating... [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.tengwar.art.pl/tengwar/ott/start.php

It appears to be in Polish but I just click on the British flag icon and it changes to english. It was the only place I could find where I could just plug in the words and it would pop up the translation in Tengwar. I wasn't able to get it to translate into anything other than Quenyan. Is there another site like this one or do I just have to slog through the translations by hand (and which one of the numerous variations of Tengwar is the best/easiest/most accurate?) Argh! Help! Unsure

 
 

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