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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
April 2010 Music Notes: "We come to honor that allegiance"

Loresilme
Valinor


Apr 1 2010, 1:13pm


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April 2010 Music Notes: "We come to honor that allegiance" Can't Post

Hello Movie TORnsibs!

Welcome to the first edition of "Music Notes", a new discussion series on Movie TORn where we will take a look at recent screencaps in our SCOD series, and discuss them from a musical perspective. First, a word of thanks to our resident LOTR score expert, our very own Magpie :-), whose incredible wealth of knowledge and information on the score make this discussion possible :-). We'll have lots of 'more info' links in these discussions, but be sure to visit Magpie's site for the very best info on the score.

Since this is our first post, please excuse any bugs or tweaks still needing to be worked out, and feel free to share suggestions or comments on the format. Also please be sure to refer to the bottom of this post for explanations of the abbreviations used throughout.

Today we'll be looking at the SCOD "We come to honor that allegiance" which was posted in February. Here's a link to that discussion:

TORn SCOD Discussion - Feb 2010





Just after Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli re-group for the seemingly hopeless battle at Helm's Deep, we hear a horn sound. Legolas says: "That is no Orc Horn!". Theoden is alerted and the gates ordered opened.

A martial version of the Lothlorien Theme plays as we see the Elves in formation marking up the causeway into Helm's Deep. Theoden comes down to meet them. We see Haldir.

Reference Sound Clip: ElvesArriveHelmsDeep.mp3

A stirring moment! Elves to the rescue. Putting aside those fun fan-inspired logistical comments such as, "And ... but ... just how did the Elves get there?" :-), let's take a look at some of the score commentary on the music used to accompany this scene.

AS-TTT: "Hope is rewarded. Haldir of Lórien arrives with a band of Elf archers to assist the Rohirrim. The Lothlórien theme takes a heretofore unheard guise, its florid current solidified into a militant march. Voices and brass in Elf-like unison carry the theme over rhythmic percussion and strings. And yet, optimism is still tempered— The London Voices yet sing the grim “Footsteps of Doom” text associated with the Lothlórien theme" :

CR-TTT: Disc 3: 0:00 - 0:32
Lyrics - Source Text: Footsteps of Doom (0:00 - 0:11); Lament for Gandalf, chorus (0:12 - 0:40)
[0:00] Man
[0:02] ammen toltha
[0:03] i dann hen morn
[0:09] si danna -
[0:11] atha
[0:12] nauva
[0:18] mel
[0:21] memma
[0:22] nóren sina
[0:27] núra lá earo
[0:31] núr(i) il(firin)
[0:37] nair(elma)

Transcript of Elvish Lyrics (more or less :-)): "Who brings to us this token of Doom? That which has stood so long against the darkness will now fall."

TTT-EE, Audio Commentary: Howard Shore comments: "You hear very specifically in the arrival of the Elves, a thematic thread from Lothlórien. But it's done in a much more military, battle mode. I wanted to make a distinction between the worlds of Rivendell and Lothlórien. Lothlórien is darker and it's a bit more of a mystical Elvish culture... older. I used just for the exotic sound of it an Indian bowed lute called a sarangi and a ney flute which is an African flute. I also used the monochord which is a 50 string drone instrument. It's quite large. It's about an 8 foot wooden instrument that has 50 strings that are tuned very sympathetically. And it's also used for healing and that really became the sound of Lothlórien... those three instruments in conjunction with the choir singing in Quenya and the orchestra. So, I think it was just the melody that was used for Lothlórien... you first hear on entering Lothlórien in Fellowship. And that very specific melody was used, almost in an opera way really, in Helm's Deep. It's not sung anymore. (Magpie adds: this is incorrect. It is sung.) It was sung when you first entered Lothlórien but now it's played in unison for trumpets playing it. I mean it's in battle mode and it has a much different rhythmic base to it. I wanted the rhythm to feel somewhat exotic so it uses a bolero rhythm, actually. Which just seems exotic enough for a battle scene in Helm's Deep. And it just seemed to suit the Elves. I can't really tell you why. But as much as the sarangi was the right sound for Lothlórien, if I had to apply a rhythmic idea -- which I didn't really in Lothlórien, it doesn't really have too many rhythmic ideas in it -- but if I had to apply a rhythmic idea to the Elves, that bolero rhythm seemed like an appropriate one for it. It was a rhythm that I felt could best describe the Elves in motion.

Magpie notes: a similarly martial version of the Lothlorien Theme plays again as the Uruk-hai start their attack on Helm's Deep.



A few questions/thought starters:

What did you think when you first saw the Elves and heard this music?

Did it enhance or detract from the action?

Did you recognize which theme it was (that it was from Lothlorien)?

Did it make sense to have the Lothlorien theme rather than the Rivendell theme?
(Reference Sound Clips: RivendellTheme.mp3 & regular LothlorienTheme.mp3)

Is one theme or the other - to you - more representative of the Elves?

How do you feel about the theme when the sarangi and other instruments are not used? Does it still sound "Elvish"? What exactly *is* Elvish, in your opinion?

What do you think of HS choosing a monochord as one of the instruments used for the Lothlorien theme and his mention of the fact that this instrument is 'also used for healing'?

And what about the bolero rhythm? I love how HS says, it suited the Elves and he can't really say why, it just does :-)... does it sound to you as he describes, like "Elves in motion"?

What did you think about the use of this theme when the Uruk-hai begin their attack? Here we have Uruk-hai attacking Men, and yet the music chosen for that moment was an Elvish theme. What are your thoughts on that choice?



The above questions are just to get the discussion ball rolling :-) .... please feel free to share any comments or other thoughts you have ... and thanks so much for your enthusiasm and support of our new Movie board discussion series :-)!






***************************************************************
Abbreviations:

SCOD
Screencap of the Day. Series on Movie TORn that discusses screencaps from the trilogy in chronological order. Currently in discussion: The Two Towers.

CR
Complete Recordings. Sets of the movies' entire soundtrack from start to finish. Includes 3 CDs of soundtrack, one Audio DVD, and liner notes. Each film has its own CR set. The CR plays the movies' complete soundtracks in the order in which it appears in the film. (more info)

OST
Original SoundTrack. The soundtrack CDs, one CD for each movie. Includes selected pieces of music from the films, generally not in the order in which they appear. The OST CDs both omit music which was used in the films and includes some music which ultimately was not used in the films. (more info)

AS-TTT
Annotated Score-The Two Towers. Refers to a free PDF download of the films' score, authored by Doug Adams. There is an Annotated Score paired with each of the three Complete Recordings. They include a track by track discussion of the music (as heard on the Complete Recordings), the source text for lyrics used in that movie, and instruments and artists heard in that movie. (link to AS-TTT pdf - click to open, right click to download)

TTT-EE
The Two Towers-Extended Edition. The films' Extended Editions contain additional features, such as commentaries. This discussion quotes some of the "Audio Commentary" from the Extended Editions.

Understanding Soundclip References
Example: CR-TTT: Disc 3: 0:32 - 0:41
This means the selected piece of music appears on the Complete Recordings of The Two Towers, on Disc #3, starting at 32 seconds into the disc and ending at 41 seconds. All DVD times stamps are NTSC Standard

Dialog and scene descriptions are from The Council of Elrond



Subject User Time
April 2010 Music Notes: "We come to honor that allegiance" Loresilme Send a private message to Loresilme Apr 1 2010, 1:13pm
    Yippee! OhioHobbit Send a private message to OhioHobbit Apr 1 2010, 3:14pm
        Corbomite Maneuver Arandiel Send a private message to Arandiel Apr 2 2010, 5:51am
            marching in 3/4 time dijomaja Send a private message to dijomaja Apr 2 2010, 11:54am
                no 3/4 march Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Apr 3 2010, 4:05pm
                    out of sync dijomaja Send a private message to dijomaja Apr 4 2010, 12:49pm
                        most of the time... Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Apr 4 2010, 2:25pm
        not marching in time to the music Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Apr 3 2010, 2:58pm
        amazing Arwen Skywalker Send a private message to Arwen Skywalker Apr 3 2010, 9:42pm
    Wow, these questions are intense. Flammifer Send a private message to Flammifer Apr 1 2010, 8:45pm
        Lothlorien & Rivendell Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Apr 3 2010, 4:34pm
    Now that I've tested my ideas against the sound clips... Arandiel Send a private message to Arandiel Apr 1 2010, 9:27pm
        3/4 and marching 3 against 4 Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Apr 3 2010, 3:27pm
            In the heat of the battle (sortof) Arandiel Send a private message to Arandiel Apr 7 2010, 5:57am
                did you mean to include a comment? Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Apr 7 2010, 1:34pm
                    Oh, bother... Yep, sure did! Arandiel Send a private message to Arandiel Apr 7 2010, 7:11pm
                        dies irae in the 5/4 motif Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Apr 7 2010, 9:13pm
                            Thanks - Arandiel Send a private message to Arandiel Apr 8 2010, 7:27pm
                                Assuming we're talking about the same music... Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Apr 8 2010, 8:06pm
                                    Finally came up for air... Arandiel Send a private message to Arandiel Apr 25 2010, 6:01am
    I'll pick just a couple to get me started... Legalize_Athelas Send a private message to Legalize_Athelas Apr 2 2010, 5:03am
        fascinating comparison to Ravel's work Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Apr 3 2010, 3:29pm
    *Smacks self on forehead* weaver Send a private message to weaver Apr 2 2010, 5:58pm
        on the subject of Elvish music dijomaja Send a private message to dijomaja Apr 3 2010, 12:26pm
            banquet scene Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Apr 3 2010, 4:14pm
        subliminal music Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Apr 3 2010, 3:57pm
            thanks for the detailed reply... weaver Send a private message to weaver Apr 5 2010, 9:01pm
    welcome all Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Apr 3 2010, 2:45pm
    Age ... One Ringer Send a private message to One Ringer Apr 6 2010, 12:30pm
    OH! WOW!!!!!! hobbitlove Send a private message to hobbitlove Apr 12 2010, 10:35pm

 
 
 

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