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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Does the history of The Hobbit production give us any clues?

moreorless
Rohan

Feb 21 2010, 7:02am

Post #1 of 10 (413 views)
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Does the history of The Hobbit production give us any clues? Can't Post

Theres obviously alot of spectulation about exactually how the story of TH will be adapted but might the history of Jackson working on it provide clues?

The early rumours seem to be that we'd get one film adapting the hobbit and a second film linking into LOTR. Thats obviously changed but to me it provides a few interesting bits of information...

1.Jackson seemed like he may have wanted to keep the tone of the Hobbit similar to the book by filming it seperately.

Perhaps this hints thats Jackson may look to keep at least the first film similar to the book?

2.He was confident that he could fit the entire story into a single film.

Could this hint that the first film maybe able to cover alot of the events of the book? perhaps all the way up until Smaugs death?

3.He wanted to cover for the "LOTR" material such as the White Council afterwards.

Might this suggest that The White Council material maybe limated to the second film? Perhaps link into The Battle of the Five Armies and become the main focus of that film if Smaug has been delt with in film 1?


(This post was edited by moreorless on Feb 21 2010, 7:02am)


Elladan
Rivendell

Feb 21 2010, 1:04pm

Post #2 of 10 (169 views)
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I doubt it [In reply to] Can't Post

I think they saw the error early on and that was why they decided on 2 films of the hobbit.

To put all of the events of the hobbit up to smaugs death in film 1 leaves us with very little hobbit plot for film 2, the argument that the white council and other thiings, might go in here would mean most of the film would be made up of unrelated flash backs, causing a chronological nightmare to the viewers.

The way I read it is that The 1 hobbit film and bridging film was jackson thinking we can have a cut down hobbit and then get back to his trilogy with LotRs appendixes. As it is the approach has been to put the hobbit into 2 films and I think that is what they will do scrapping the bridging part al together, after all it makes no sense to shoe horn to different approaches into 1 set of films.

As it is I think the hobbit will not be nearly as lighthearted and childish as the book, as this wont draw the crowds into the cinema. Sure the big tolkien fans will come and see it, and people with families will come to see it. But most people whos knowledge of tolkien comes from the films will likely be dissapointed, and the box office figures will suffer as a result. So I suspect there will be a lot of pressure to up the doom feeling, weather Guillermo wants to or not.


OrnawenRana
The Shire


Feb 21 2010, 3:27pm

Post #3 of 10 (171 views)
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The doom feeling... [In reply to] Can't Post

Is that kinda what we had going on the the Narnia movies? The battles seemed more...intense than in the books. Anyway, it seemed to work for those movies, so I wouldn't be surprised to see that happen with the hobbit. I do hope they cut very little out if they are doing two movies.


Eldorion
Rohan


Feb 21 2010, 7:24pm

Post #4 of 10 (135 views)
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Crowds [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
As it is I think the hobbit will not be nearly as lighthearted and childish as the book, as this wont draw the crowds into the cinema.


I partially disagree. I think it could draw many crowds of people: passing fans of Tolkien (and there are far many more of those than there are of die-hard/devoted fans) or people who just want to see a fun adventure story. I agree though that it would disappoint people who are looking for another LotR, especially if they're more familiar with the movies.

And as we wind on down the road
Our shadows taller than our soul
There walks a lady we all know
Who shines white light and wants to show
How everything still turns to gold
And if you listen very hard
The truth will come to you at last
When all are one and one is all
To be a rock and not to roll


Eldorion
Rohan


Feb 21 2010, 7:25pm

Post #5 of 10 (139 views)
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I'd be cautious... [In reply to] Can't Post

...trying to apply ideas from that phase of development to the current phase, without getting some further word on the matter from PJ or GdT.

And as we wind on down the road
Our shadows taller than our soul
There walks a lady we all know
Who shines white light and wants to show
How everything still turns to gold
And if you listen very hard
The truth will come to you at last
When all are one and one is all
To be a rock and not to roll


moreorless
Rohan

Feb 22 2010, 5:48am

Post #6 of 10 (98 views)
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Everything is guesswork at this stage really [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
...trying to apply ideas from that phase of development to the current phase, without getting some further word on the matter from PJ or GdT.

True its largely guesswork but that makes up 95% of the discussion here anyway.

It is easy to imagine that rather than a total rethink of the "bridge" idea Jackson may have desided to mix certain elements of it into the latter stages of The Hobbit.

Smaug does provide the most obvious climax to film one aswell although you could I spose look at it from the opposite direction and say Shelob did for TTT yet Jackson preffered to push her back to ROTK to give that film more plot. Personally I think the Smaug section is very much all or nothing, either you end film one before he's fully introduced or after he's been killed, it end part way though would damage both films IMHO.

My own feeling is that film one maybe more the "personal adventure" story of the book ending with the arrival at laketown with film two being more similar in tone to LOTR starting with the Smaug section and the White Council running side by side with the latter possible feeding into the Battle of the 5 Armies somehow.


(This post was edited by moreorless on Feb 22 2010, 5:52am)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Feb 22 2010, 3:09pm

Post #7 of 10 (84 views)
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The Change from The Hobbit + Bridge [In reply to] Can't Post

To Hobbit I & Hobbit II, I believe, was driven by the addition of Guillermo del Toro as director and as a member of the writing team. GDT explained part of the reason for moving to a two part Hobbit in the following quote from this forum.

"Allow me to explain: Adapting an existing book is quite a task (iv e done it with WIND IN THE WILLOWS, THE WITCHES, HELLBOY, etc) and an artistic, instinctive endeavour. The only guide you have is your creative "gut feeling" and that of your closest associates. The carding of an adaptation, however, is quite exact... Normally I card a feature film in about 100-130 3x5 cards that detail "events" that take place in the book. THE HOBBIT (plus the Dol Guldur episodes) carded at over 300 card at its smallest. That means a 4-5 hour movie..."

As to the layout of the films he gave this hint:


"Therefore the HOBBIT narrative and beats and tone etc will not exist as a standalone but will have "long lines" that will actually be carried through the existing Trilogy and will illuminate it in a different way."

"The experience of seeing both Hobbit movies will contain the same iconic beats that exist in the book but they will be enhanced by the Dol Guldur / Necromancer moments."






Kangi Ska

At night one cannot tell if crows are black or white.




Elladan
Rivendell

Feb 22 2010, 3:21pm

Post #8 of 10 (81 views)
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True its all speculation. [In reply to] Can't Post

I am wondering though, who has the most creative input in these films? Jackson or Del Toro? I would assume its Del Toro as he can hardly be expected to make someone elses vison of the hobbit. Which would make any comparisons with tLotR trilogy slighlty less reliable, unfortuantely I havent, to my knowledge, seen any films directed by Del Toro so cannot venture any insights into his workings.

I agree on the Smaug thing splitting it between 2 films would break the characters involvement. Which is why I think putting him in film 2 would make most sense, in terms of scenes per film.

I think having the white council in film 1, for the most part, would give a good perspective of Bilbos journey. As it would link the political back drop of middle earth between the 2 films, rather than just drop kicking the viewers between charming insignificant adventure to nation changing political turmoil.


moreorless
Rohan

Feb 22 2010, 4:32pm

Post #9 of 10 (78 views)
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The problem I see... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I am wondering though, who has the most creative input in these films? Jackson or Del Toro? I would assume its Del Toro as he can hardly be expected to make someone elses vison of the hobbit. Which would make any comparisons with tLotR trilogy slighlty less reliable, unfortuantely I havent, to my knowledge, seen any films directed by Del Toro so cannot venture any insights into his workings.

I agree on the Smaug thing splitting it between 2 films would break the characters involvement. Which is why I think putting him in film 2 would make most sense, in terms of scenes per film.

I think having the white council in film 1, for the most part, would give a good perspective of Bilbos journey. As it would link the political back drop of middle earth between the 2 films, rather than just drop kicking the viewers between charming insignificant adventure to nation changing political turmoil.

....with having Smaug in film 2 and the White Council in film 1 is that the the latter doesnt seem to have anything dramatically similar to run alongside and leaves Gandalf out of the story of much of film 2.

If both are left until film 2 I see a strong match in both stories dramatic arcs. Your start with the preperations at laketown perhaps learning more of the history of the area(Bard, Dale etc) and at the same time you have The White Council debating events and their possible action, both good first acts. Then you have the actual Smaug sequences featuring a fair bit of action and the strongest villian in the existing story which could match up well in some kind iof confrontation between The Council and Sauron. Finally the Battle of the 5 Armies could get more setup in the council half the story either linking into it or simpley giving us more infomation of Bolg and the threat he poses.

Perhaps Gandalf's personal journey into Dol Guldor and discovering of the Necromancer's true nature could be including in film 1? That seems like it would have less potential to overwhelm the existing story. Film one would be "smaller" without the main white council story but if you don't cover Smaug I see that being a possible advantage as it would keep the focus more closely on Bilbo and allow his personal journey and perhaps his relationship to Thorin to be the films story arc. I could see the former gradually gaining confidense and the latter finally acknowledging his abilties providing a good flow to the seemingly random events of the journey and a satisfactory conclusion.

As far as who is contributing to the script I'd guess GDT's main inputs at this stage maybe its overall structure with the existing writting team working on the finner details. Then when GDT actually gets ahold of it for filming he'll have a chance to add his creativity on a smaller scale.


(This post was edited by moreorless on Feb 22 2010, 4:34pm)


lazygarfield
Bree


Feb 22 2010, 9:35pm

Post #10 of 10 (100 views)
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Totally agree... [In reply to] Can't Post

... of all the posts in this thread, this is the one I totally agree with.

If The Hobbit 1 focuses on the crew's journey till Lakewood and ends there, it will have become a FOTR-style "journey" movie, almost mirroring all the keynotes.

With an idyllic start in the Shire, an unlikely recruitment process, and with various happenings on the way (the Trolls, Goblin King, Beorn, Mirkwood, Wood-Elves, Barrel Escape), the doofus protagonist in the beginning will have matured into a more responsible man-on-a-mission by the end, having earned the respect of his team members for his wit and resilience. Meanwhile, the main "task" has not even been partially fulfilled and things are just about to get darker.

There. Almost perfect mirror image of FOTR. What's more, the "events" that happen in here, such as the being captured by Goblins, Mirkwood, they are such that it will take a a lot of screentime to get them right. They'll have to show the despair and wickedness of Mirkwood sufficiently, not just thru a montage. They must have an efficient escape sequence from the Goblin King, just showing a small turn-around-the-corner-and-duck won't do.

Hence, even if we do consider a 2.30 hr+ movie, this much will take up the entire time.

Meanwhile, this sets up Movie 2 perfectly, and since you already covered those points accurately, I won't retread.

Also, by setting up Movie 2 like this, with a gigantic dragon and massive battle in the end, its more akin to TTT/ROTK, thus completing the similarities between the 2 prequels and the original trilogy.

If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.

 
 

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