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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jan 29 2010, 9:48am
Post #1 of 74
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It's time for some BS!
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It's a Book Spoiler of how it all began... for a moment of Tolkien-zen.
From An Unexpected Party: The Hobbit
... "It was often said (in other families) that long ago one of the Took ancestors must have taken a fairy wife. That was, of course, absurd, but certainly there was still something not entirely hobbit-like about them, and once in a while members of the Took-clan would go and have adventures. They discreetly disappeared, and the family hushed it up; but the fact remained that the Tooks were not as respectable as the Bagginses, though they were undoubtedly richer.
... Not that Belladonna Took ever had any adventures after she became Mrs. Bungo Baggins. Bungo, that was Bilbo’s father, built the most luxurious hobbit-hole for her (and partly with her money) that was to be found either under The Hill or over The Hill or across The Water, and there they remained to the end of their days. Still it is probably that Bilbo, her only son, although he looked and behaved exactly like a second edition of his solid and comfortable father, got something a bit queer in his makeup from the Took side, something that only waited for a chance to come out. The chance never arrived, until Bilbo Baggins was grown up, being about fifty years old or so, and living in the beautiful hobbit-hole built by his father, which I have just described for you, until he had in fact apparently settled down immovably.
... By some curious chance one morning long ago in the quiet of the world, when there was less noise and more green, and the hobbits were still numerous and prosperous, and Bilbo Baggins was standing at his door after breakfast smoking an enormous long wooden pipe that reached nearly down to his woolly toes (neatly brushed)—Gandalf came by."
 
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
~Hug like a hobbit!~
I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.
TORn's Observations Lists
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jan 29 2010, 12:31pm
Post #2 of 74
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"Not that Belladonna Took ever had any adventures after she became Mrs. Bungo Baggins."
Now this is a direct implication, that Bilbo's esteem mothere did indeed have adventures before her marriage! What did she do? Where did she go? Did she visit Rivendell...or perhaps the Towers? Did she look out upon the Sea, and feel some sort of sea-longing stirring in her? Did she visit the Dwarves in the Blue Hills?
I'd love to know what it was, that made her and her sisters so "remarkable"!
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"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
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Eldy
Tol Eressea
Jan 29 2010, 2:14pm
Post #3 of 74
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I'd never thought of it that way...
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...but I do believe you're right, the implication is there. I would imagine she was one of those who snuck off and had their disappearance hushed up. If she went west she must have gone at least to Bree, maybe further.
I have long wonderef if the fairy wife story might have a grain of truth in it. The Tooks were largely Fallohidish (see the Prologue to TLotR), and those were always more friendly with Elves. Did some Tooks (perhaps includong Belladonna) have dealings with the Elves?
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Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea
Jan 29 2010, 3:36pm
Post #4 of 74
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that Tolkien keeps the word as "fairy" here, when you really see no other hints of it throughout the world in later stages- he tends to use the word 'elf' instead, does he not?
For the longest time, I thought that 'fairy' meant the modern rendition of fairy- wings and all- and it really confused me until I saw Tolkien's use of the word in other senses, and then afterwards assumed he meant "elf" rather than a creature that flies. Still, I wonder that that was not changed when the new edition of the Hobbit came out around LOTR's publishing.
My LiveJournal ~ My artwork and photography ~ My LOTR fan fiction
NARF since age 8, when I refused to read the Hobbit because the cover looked boring and icky.
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Larewen
Lorien
Jan 29 2010, 4:02pm
Post #5 of 74
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I just don't see it. Unless a fairy isn't an elf?
Maybe some insanity runs in the family. 
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jan 30 2010, 12:11pm
Post #6 of 74
(963 views)
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This is a Book Spoiler shows how well Bilbo can shift gears and stand up for himself... for a moment of Tolkien-zen.
From An Unexpected Party: The Hobbit
... ""Pardon me," he said, 'if I have overheard words that you were saying. I don't pretend to understand what you are talking about, or your reference to burglars, but I think I am right in believing" (this is what he called being on his dignity) "that you think I am no good. I will show you. I have no signs on my door—it was painted a week ago--, and I am quite sure you have come to the wrong house. As soon as I saw your funny faces on the door-step, I had my doubts. But treat it as the right one. Tell me what you want done, and I will try it, if I have to walk from here to the East of East and fight the wild Were-worms in the Last Desert. I had a great-great-great-granduncle once, Bullroarer Took, and----"
... "Yes, yes, but that was long ago," said Gloin. "I was talking about you. And I assure you there is a mark on this door—the usual one in the trade, or used to be. Burglar wants a good job, plenty of Excitement and reasonable Reward, that's how it is usually read. You can say Expert Treasure-hunter instead of Burglar if you like. Some of them do. It's all the same to us. Gandalf told us that there was a man of the sort in these parts looking for a Job at once, and that he had arranged for a meeting here this Wednesday tea-time."
... "Of course there is a mark," said Gandalf. "I put it there myself. For very good reasons. You asked me to find the fourteenth man for your expedition, and I chose Mr. Baggins. Just let any one say I chose the wrong man or the wrong house, and you can stop at thirteen and have all the bad luck you like, or go back to digging coal."
... He scowled so angrily at Gloin that the dwarf huddled back in his chair; and when Bilbo tried to open his mouth to ask a question, he turned and frowned at him and stuck out his bushy eyebrows, till Bilbo shut his mouth tight with a snap. "That's right," said Gandalf. "Let's have no more argument. I have chosen Mr. Baggins and that ought to be enough for all of you. If I say he is a Burglar, a Burglar he is, or will be when the time comes. There is a lot more in him than you guess, and a deal more than he has any idea of himself. You may (possibly) all live to thank me yet. Now Bilbo, my boy, fetch the lamp, and let's have a little light on this!""
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
~Hug like a hobbit!~
I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.
TORn's Observations Lists
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jan 30 2010, 12:24pm
Post #7 of 74
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*snigger* I've wondered that, too.
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I'd like to think of her as having a mind of her own, curiosity of things outside the Shire, and an awareness of other worlds beyond their borders. But, unfortunately, the townsfolk who would consider her to have taken adventures before marrying the supposedly proper (?) Bungo could mean she went to Bree once. Or was seen walking some of the woodland trails that Bilbo later took on as his own favourites. it could be that for a female hobbit to do anything on her own outside any Shireling-established boundaries (both personal and logistical) would raise eyebrows and start many conversations in local pubs and hedges.
And if Bungo were as proper a hobbit as they'd like us to believe, would he even consider marrying such a radical?
As... gotta love those radicals!
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
~Hug like a hobbit!~
I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.
TORn's Observations Lists
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jan 30 2010, 12:31pm
Post #8 of 74
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and great catch, Ainu! I've always taken it as just another name for an elf the same way Tolkien has many names for most places and characthers. It could also have been what other hobbits referred to when talking about what we know to be elves when they'd never seen any themselves (unless they knew but never admitted ;).
It was also a reference used so early in Tolkien's storytelling that he probably used it for his audience's recognition... then eventually revealed that they were elves... just as we've discovered :D
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
~Hug like a hobbit!~
I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.
TORn's Observations Lists
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
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Jan 30 2010, 3:09pm
Post #9 of 74
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Heh, I do like these little remarks that find their way into what people are saying! I wonder what the Dwarves' reaction was to Bilbo's "your funny faces"?
And Gandalf's aside of "...or will be when the time comes", regarding Bilbo's burglari-ness! Can't you hear him adding that phrase, in a very soft voice with his head turned slightly... Gotta love his confidence, and the pains he's taking to convince the Dwarves of Bilbo's worthiness.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
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Jan 30 2010, 3:24pm
Post #10 of 74
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And a bit abut the "fairies"...
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I browsed about HoH (John Rateliff's History of the Hobbit) to see what notes he had regarding the use of "fairy" here.
First, the original line: "It had always been said that long ago some or other of the Tooks had married into a fairy family (goblin family said severer critics)..." Well, that does give us a good idea as to how some Hobbits felt towards the more adventurous ones! 
Rateliff does have a note regarding the use of "fairy" here: "At first sight, fairies would seem, like the stone-giants, to be a race peculiar to The Hobbit, not found in The Lord of the Rings. But this is not the case: the usage in The Book of Lost Tales establishes 'fairy' as a synonym for 'elf'."
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"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jan 31 2010, 9:25pm
Post #11 of 74
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Here's part 1 of a 2-part Book Spoiler looking at one of the Great Battles involving Men and Elves... for a moment of Tolkien-zen.
Of the Voyage of Eärendil and the War of Wrath: The Silmarillion
... "Of the march of the host of the Valar to the north of Middle-earth little is said in any tale; for among them went none of those Elves who had dwelt and suffered in the Hither Lands, and who made the histories of those days that still are known; and tidings of these things they only learned long afterwards from their kinsfolk in Aman. But at the last the might of Valinor came up out of the West, and the challenge of the trumpets of Eönwë filled the sky; and Beleriand was ablaze with the glory of their arms, for the host of the Valar were arrayed in forms young and fair and terrible, and the mountains rang beneath their feet.
... The meeting of the hosts of the West and of the North is named the Great Battle, and the War of Wrath. There was marshalled the whole power of the Throne of Morgoth, and it had become great beyond count, so that Anfauglith could not contain it; and all the North was aflame with war.
... But it availed him not. The Balrogs were destroyed, save some few that fled and hid themselves in caverns inaccessible at the roots of the earth; and the uncounted legions of the Orcs perished like straw in a great fire, or were swept like shrivelled leaves before a burning wind. Few remained to trouble the world for long years after. And such few as were left of the three houses of the Elf-friends, Fathers of Men, fought upon the part of the Valar; and they were avenged in those days for Baragund and Barahir, Galdor and Gundor, Huor and Húrin, and many others of their lords. But a great part of the sons of Men, whether of the people of Uldor or others new-come out of the east, marched with the Enemy; and the Elves do not forget it."
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
~Hug like a hobbit!~
I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.
TORn's Observations Lists
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jan 31 2010, 9:29pm
Post #12 of 74
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Gandalf certainly loves walking a tightrope
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when he's "arranging" things ;) What I can't wait to see is what a "mark" looks like that is made to advertise for Burglar wants a good job, plenty of Excitement and reasonable Reward.
Plenty of excitement? Bilbo? *snigger*
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
~Hug like a hobbit!~
I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.
TORn's Observations Lists
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jan 31 2010, 9:32pm
Post #13 of 74
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First... for hunting this down
Second.... for knowing where to look for it
Third... for geeking me out to know that we think a bit like (or understand) Tolkien in our interpretations of this! *high five*
This is SO COOL! :D
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
~Hug like a hobbit!~
I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.
TORn's Observations Lists
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
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Jan 31 2010, 9:41pm
Post #14 of 74
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I wonder - do you think Daniel Reeve has been called upon to design it?
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"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
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Jan 31 2010, 9:48pm
Post #15 of 74
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Why is it, I wonder, that Men can be so divided between the good and the evil! This brings to mind the men of Rhun and Harad who joined the ranks of Sauron.
Or maybe, it's just as Sam wondered, when he witnessed one young Southron felled in battle: perhaps they were compelled to fight, and would far rather have stayed at home, at peace...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Feb 1 2010, 9:41am
Post #16 of 74
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Here's some more of yesterday's Book Spoiler... for a moment of Tolkien-zen.
Of the Voyage of Eärendil and the War of Wrath: The Silmarillion
... "Then, seeing that his hosts were overthrown and his power dispersed, Morgoth quailed, and he dared not to come forth himself. But he loosed upon his foes the last desperate assault that he had prepared, and out of the pits of Angband there issued the winged dragons, that had not before been seen; and so sudden and ruinous was the onset of that dreadful fleet that the host of the Valar was driven back, for the coming of the dragons was with great thunder, and lightning, and a tempest of fire.
... But Eärendil came, shining with white flame, and about Vingilot were gathered all the great birds of heaven and Thorondor was their captain, and there was battle in the air all the day and through a dark night of doubt. Before the rising of the sun Eärendil slew Ancalagon the Black, the mightiest of the dragon-host, and cast him from the sky; and he fell upon the towers of Thangorodrim, and they were broken in his ruin. Then the sun rose, and the host of the Valar prevailed, and well-nigh all the dragons were destroyed; and all the pits of Morgoth were broken and unroofed, and the might of the Valar descended into the deeps of the earth. There Morgoth stood at last at bay, and yet unvaliant. He fled into the deepest of his mines, and sued for peace and pardon; but his feet were hewn from under him, and he was hurled upon his face. Then he was bound with the chain Angainor which he had worn aforetime, and his iron crown they beat into a collar for his neck, and his head was bowed upon his knees. And the two Silmarils which remained to Morgoth were taken from his crown, and they shone unsullied beneath the sky..."
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
~Hug like a hobbit!~
I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.
TORn's Observations Lists
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Feb 1 2010, 9:54am
Post #17 of 74
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the first one to come to my mind!!! Or Alan Lee? I wonder what it'll look like, though. Something easily fashioned by Gandalf scratching it out with the end of his staff and knocking on the door to remove it. And it's something universally understood OR (most likely) it's just a Dwarvish symbol for the job. That means it's most likely runic like those on Moria's walls (and soon Erebor?) or Gimli's gear.
Dwarvish shorthand. This should be interesting ;)
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
~Hug like a hobbit!~
I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.
TORn's Observations Lists
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Feb 1 2010, 9:58am
Post #18 of 74
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it takes to travel and how difficult it is to communicate between realms, I think it's like Sam deduced... if you only hear one side of any situation, especially things developed over generations, men tend to believe the one attitude to be the truth. As they discovered after the war and the new King of Gondor gave sentence to the losers... their beliefs were way wrong. I wonder how hard it must have been for those men to return to their lands and try to re-write history?
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
~Hug like a hobbit!~
I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.
TORn's Observations Lists
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
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Feb 1 2010, 11:24am
Post #19 of 74
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The brightest of stars fighting the blackest of foes!
A scene which brings to mind the small light of Gandalf facing the flames of the Balrog...one of the escapees from this battle.
And Morgoth, so weakened that he is constrained by his physical body. Begging for "pardon"? I think not!
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"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Feb 2 2010, 10:07am
Post #20 of 74
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It's a Book Spoiler about a cross-country run... for a moment of Tolkien-zen. From The Riders Of Rohan: The Two Towers
... "At dusk they halted again. Now twice twelve leagues they had passed over the plains of Rohan and the wall of the Emyn Muil was lost in the shadows of the East. The young moon was glimmering in a misty sky, but it gave small light, and the stars were veiled.
... 'Now do I most grudge a time of rest or any halt in our chase,' said Legolas. 'The Orcs have run before us, as if the very whips of Sauron were behind them. I fear they have already reached the forest and the dark hills, and even now are passing into the shadows of the trees.'
... Gimli ground his teeth. 'This is a bitter end to our hope and to all our toil!' he said.
... 'To hope, maybe, but not to toil,' said Aragorn. 'We shall not turn back here. Yet I am weary.' He gazed back along the way that they had come towards the night gathering in the East. 'There is something strange at work in this land. I distrust the silence. I distrust even the pale Moon. The stars are faint; and I am weary as I have seldom been before, weary as no Ranger should be with a clear trail to follow. There is some will that lends speed to our foes and sets an unseen barrier before us: a weariness that is in the heart more than in the limb.'
... 'Truly!' said Legolas. 'That I have known since first we came down from the Emyn Muil. For the will is not behind us but before us.' He pointed away over the land of Rohan into the darkling West under the sickle moon.
... 'Saruman!' muttered Aragorn. 'But he shall not turn us back! Halt we must once more; for, see! even the Moon is falling into gathering cloud. But north lies our road between down and fen when day returns.'
... As before Legolas was first afoot, if indeed he had ever slept. 'Awake! Awake!' he cried. 'It is a red dawn. Strange things await us by the eaves of the forest. Good or evil, I do not know; but we are called. Awake!'
... The others sprang up, and almost at once they set off again."
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
~Hug like a hobbit!~
I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.
TORn's Observations Lists
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Feb 2 2010, 10:09am
Post #21 of 74
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but cowards gotta beg when they're busted.
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
~Hug like a hobbit!~
I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.
TORn's Observations Lists
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
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Feb 2 2010, 11:18am
Post #22 of 74
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How ever did Gimli, with his shorter legs, manage to keep up with an Elf and a Man!
The "weariness of heart" sent out by Saruman brings to mind the Silent Watchers at the tower of Cirith Ungol...they were far more "concentrated", but it was probably the same sort of "enchantment" being exuded from them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Feb 2 2010, 5:16pm
Post #23 of 74
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and like the Wicked Witch of the West, too!!!
"Poppieeeeessss... poppieeeeesssssss"
And poor Gimli! With all that armour on, too!!! Keep breathing... that's the key!
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
~Hug like a hobbit!~
I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.
TORn's Observations Lists
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silneldor
Half-elven
Feb 2 2010, 6:59pm
Post #24 of 74
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the meaning of:
'I do not know; but we are called. Awake!' '
Is Legolas speaking of that which is within? The call from within of heart that they had from the start on the Anduin? Or is it something external. Something besides the 'will' of Saruman that lies before them. Do they feel the yearning hearts and pain of Merry and Pippin? Can it be yet something more?
''Sam put his ragged orc-cloak under his master's head, and covered them both with the grey robe of Lorien; and as he did so his thoughts went out to that fair land, and to the Elves, and he hoped that the cloth woven by their hands might have some virtue to keep them hidden beyond all hope in this wilderness of fear...But their luck held, and for the rest of that day they met no living or moving thing; and when night fell they vanished into the darkess of Mordor.'' - - -rotk, chapter III
May the grace of Manwë let us soar with eagle's wings!
In the air, among the clouds in the sky
Here is where the birds of Manwe fly
Looking at the land, and the water that flows
The true beauty of earth shows
With the stars of Varda lighting my way
In all the realms this is where I stay
In the realm of Manwë Súlimo
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Feb 3 2010, 10:50am
Post #25 of 74
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It's time for still some More BS!
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Here's a Book Spoiler that shows how Gandalf drove Bilbo to tears... for a moment of Tolkien-zen.
From Queer Lodgings: The Hobbit
[white... "There was a flat space on the top of the hill of stone and a well worn path with many steps leading down it to the river, across which a ford of huge flat stones led to the grass-land beyond the stream. There was a little cave (a wholesome one with a pebbly floor) at the foot of the steps and near the end of the stony ford. Here the party gathered and discussed what was to be done.
[white... I always meant to see you safe (if possible) over the mountains," said the wizard, "and now by good management and good luck I have done it. Indeed we are now a good deal further east than I ever meant to come with you, for after all this not my adventure. I may look in on it again before it is all over, but in the meanwhile I have some other pressing business to attend to."
[white... The dwarves groaned and looked most distressed, and Bilbo wept. They had begun to think Gandalf was going to come all the way and would always be there to help them out of difficulties. "I can give you a day or two more. Probably I can help you out of your present plight, and I need a little help myself. We have no food, and no baggage, and no ponies to ride; and you don’t know where you are. Now I can tell you that you are still some miles north of the path which we should have been following, if we had not left the mountain pass in a hurry. Very few people live in these parts, unless they have come here since I was last down this way, which is some years ago. But there is somebody that I know of, who lives not far away. That somebody made the steps on the Great rock—the Carrock I believe he calls it. He does not come here often, certainly not in the daytime, and it is no good waiting for him. In fact it would be very dangerous. We must go and find him; and if all goes well at our meeting, I think I shall be off and wish you like the eagles 'farewell wherever you fare!’ "
[white... They begged him not to leave them. They offered him dragon-gold and silver and jewels, but he would not change his mind. "We shall see, we shall see!" he said, and I think I have earned already some of your dragon gold--when you have got it.""
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
~Hug like a hobbit!~
I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.
TORn's Observations Lists
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