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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Why Orlando Bloom should be in 'The Hobbit'
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News from Bree
spymaster@theonering.net

Jan 26 2010, 1:30am

Post #1 of 165 (2739 views)
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Why Orlando Bloom should be in 'The Hobbit' Can't Post

PARK CITY, Utah -- Orlando Bloom is was at the Sundance Film Festival promoting "Sympathy For Delicious," an independent film directed by Mark Ruffalo. Bloom, of course, was launched to fame by his turn as practically divine (looking) Elf Legolas in Peter Jackson's film trilogy, "The Lord of The Rings."

And without a doubt (besides the obvious and absolutely vital return of Gandalf to the silver screen) he is the member of the Fellowship of the Ring who should be in Guillermo del Toro's two-part adaptation of "The Hobbit." Here is why:

Every actor associated with Jackson's films seems to get some variation of the red-carpet question, "Will you be in 'The Hobbit'?" Elijah Wood, Dominic Monaghan, Billy Boyd, Sean Astin, Viggo Mortensen, and Liv Tyler among others have all been peppered by the media on the subject. The answer usually mentions a willingness to do so by the actor with profuse praise for Jackson and then the admission that it doesn't make a lot of sense, in the context of the films, to do it.

In fact, such appearances would completely ignore continuity from J.R.R. Tolkien's books and would also seemingly disregard Jackson's films' common sense where young Hobbits would be showing up decade's before their own birth to make a cameo.

But Bloom certainly wouldn't be too young if Legolas's comments regarding his age are taken into account. The written Legolas, in one of several such bits of dialog contained in "The Two Towers" says, " 'Five hundred times have the red leaves fallen in Mirkwood in my home since then,' said Legolas, 'and but a little while does that seem to us.' " Film Legolas, based on absolutely nothing written by Tolkien, declares that he is 2,931 years of Sindarin hunkeyness old.

Tyler's Arwen and Cate Blanchette's Galadriel similarly have longevity on their side but those characters lack the historical probability of being in the right place at the right time to place them squarely in front of "The Hobbit," cameras which weighs heavily in Bloom's favor.

The MTV blog chatted Bloom up during his Sundance promotional efforts and got him to confess that he has already e-mailed Jackson telling him that he would be willing to return to New Zealand and step in front of cameras with a blond wig and pointy ears.

MTV then writes a sentence that might get its Tolkien-credibility card revoked:
"It's not particularly likely that Bloom's services would be required for "The Hobbit" as Legolas has no role in the original story, though it's always possible that the actor could play Thranduil, Legolas' father who appears as the Elvenking in the story."

(Okay MTV blog folks, we are just kidding! Nobody wants to revoke that 'imaginary' card and we heart you for asking lots of 'Hobbit' questions at every turn.)

First, Bloom cannot, should not, must not, play Thranduil as it would take every viewer around the world out of the story immediately and doubly fast if / when his royal heart-throbness flexed his cheek muscles into a smile. (Although it is unknown if Thranduil so much as grinned.)

But more importantly, while Legolas didn't expressly have a role in the original story, it is highly likely that he was present at some of the big events described there. Tolkien wrote "The Hobbit," years before he completed "The Lord of the Rings," so while the character of Legolas wasn't mentioned by name, his name was in use in Tolkien's (at the time) great unpublished mythos which became "The Silmarillion". At the time of that writing the Good Professor had not yet tied "The Hobbit" to his epic creation but later when he wove the two together he pulled out and dusted off the Elvish name which means "Green leaf".

In LOTR, Legolas is in Rivendell just in time for the Council of Elrond because he carried the news of Gollum's escape from his father's forest home. (You might imagine these Elves would have tightened dungeon security after 13 Dwarves snuck out, but apparently not!)

His mission to Elrond demonstrates that:
A) He was a trusted agent of his father (and a Prince)
B) He likely lived with his fellow Elves in Mirkwood

Eighty years prior to visiting Elrond and agreeing to represent Elves in The Fellowship, it is likely that Legolas was in Mirkwood with his father, probably advising dad and opposing the trouble brewing which was later shown to be Sauron hiding as The Necromancer.

An Elven Prince, such as Legolas, would be extremely likely to be involved with a baker's dozen tight-lipped Dwarves discovered and captured in Mirkwood. And later when those captives went mysteriously missing, he would be informed, if not directly involved, in the aftermath.

Further, when an army of Elves were mustered to march to The Lonely Mountain for war in the Battle of Five Armies, it seems unthinkable that Legolas wouldn't be among their number if not leading them in some manner.

So while Legolas had no explicit role spelled out in the text, Princes of Mirkwood wouldn't miss events like the notable capture of Dwarves or the restoration of his father's honor and kingdom via war.

Now if it were up to me, Bloom would probably not speak a word in either of the two Hobbit films but would stand behind Doug Jones Thranduil silently supporting and honoring his father. He would definitely be present at the flicks' biggest battle doing low-key but unmistakable Legolas moves.

I don't know that Bloom would agree to a part with no dialog but if he would it would be a classic nod to his non-mention in the books while providing a line of continuity from del Toro's films to Jackson's. It wouldn't require a large time commitment either and would likely delight studios and financiers. It wouldn't be an over-the-top, distracting cameo but a tasteful, clever and humorous walkthrough that would also feel just 'right'.

Opinions expressed belong solely to the author and not necessarily shared by TheOnering.net

(This post was edited by calisuri on Jan 26 2010, 4:00pm)


7777777
Rivendell


Jan 26 2010, 10:38am

Post #2 of 165 (1138 views)
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I don't mind either way, as long as Thranduil isn't a lizard with an accent.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"Something, something, something Darkside. Something, something, something complete."


macfalk
Valinor


Jan 26 2010, 10:41am

Post #3 of 165 (1133 views)
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I agree to 100%, just dont ruin it [In reply to] Can't Post

Agreed. That Legolas would NOT have participated in the battle of five armies sounds very very unlikable. Also, when Thranduil is asking Thorin and company questions in his halls, Legolas would for sure be there next to him? That would make sense.

Just dont ruin it with some shieldsurfing or such and im pleased Cool


ceti
The Shire


Jan 26 2010, 10:42am

Post #4 of 165 (1110 views)
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Bene trovatto [In reply to] Can't Post

I think this makes perfectly sense. It isn't true, but it's "bene trovatto".
Besides, Bloom is in desperate need of a success, since his career seems to be in a halt.


Laerasyn
Bree


Jan 26 2010, 11:40am

Post #5 of 165 (1077 views)
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Continuity Nod [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't necessarily think he would absolutely need to be there next to his father when the dwarves came in- as I mentioned in another thread, Legolas is an adult, and it isn't as if he needs to spend every minute of every day learning how to run the kingdom (Thranduil could rule for centuries or more yet). I think it would be perfectly legitimate that he has other obligations, projects and/or other things to do around the realm that may have prevented him from being there all the time. Also, as the article mentions, were they not in the middle of dealing with the Necromancer at this point (or at least attempting to clean up the mess he left)? It's possible that he would have been off leading that effort. Basically, I think it would make sense either way, whether he was there or not.

I do have to agree with the battle of Five Armies, though. It certainly does not make sense that he would be left behind if a large number of his people are riding off to war. And I wouldn't mind a few lines, some short exchange between him and his father or the other elves or something, maybe, but nothing overshadowing.

In short, it would be a nice continuity nod to Jackson's trilogy, but I wouldn't be too upset if he wasn't there.

'Good and ill have not change since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house.'



PettyMim
Rivendell


Jan 26 2010, 12:58pm

Post #6 of 165 (1038 views)
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It would be great to see Orlando back [In reply to] Can't Post

but to avoid harmful (for me) deviation from the book it would have to be done carefully and certainly only a small part so that the "thunder" isn't stolen away from the main plot and cast. Orlando has came along way since filming LOTR - would he be willing to come back to be little more than an extra?.........................Having said that I'd love to see him kicking a** in the Battle of the five armies - sheild surfing down the side of the lonely mountain flooring dozens of orc scum, then gracefully coming to a stop in front of his father (David Tennant), who has himself just had an impressive few minutes of battle and seems bemused to see his sons stellar performance outdo him.


deej
Tol Eressea


Jan 26 2010, 12:59pm

Post #7 of 165 (1015 views)
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A very strong case! [In reply to] Can't Post

And very well written, if I might say. I agree that it would make a lot of sense to see Legolas at the Battle of the Five Armies, as well as the capture of the Dwarves. I also agree that he should not have a huge role; even a small cameo like PJ's would suffice.


"...and back again."



Twit
Lorien

Jan 26 2010, 1:40pm

Post #8 of 165 (1030 views)
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I'm on the fence about this really [In reply to] Can't Post

On the one hand yes, on the other no.
Maybe he could be glimpsed at Mirkwood, but not be a part of any Dwarf questioning or imprisonment. Perhaps he was among the Elves being 'chased' throught Mirkwood, or he is off some-where else? It does seem right that he should be fighting with the Elves, but would he realistically be next to Thranduil, or does Thranduil give him orders, which he disappears off to do [and we neither hear nor see him any where else 'til LotR], or would Thranduil want his son back home taking care of the place in his absence?
Later I might think no, no, no he should not be there, he's not in the book etc etc..

It would be ok if his appearance is not made into a big deal but equally it would be ok without him at all.

So, for my own sanity I'm just going to wait and see - I liked LotR so I'm sure I'll like The Hobbit - with or without him.

[climbs back up on fence]


Gildor
Rivendell

Jan 26 2010, 2:27pm

Post #9 of 165 (986 views)
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Bloom could play either Legolas or Thranduil [In reply to] Can't Post

Given the possibilities of both visual and audio effects, and the natural aging process (Bloom is obviously now much older and more mature than he was for LOTR filming), there seems little reason that he couldn't play Thranduil. Fathers and their sons often look very much alike, so why not?

I'd hate for some people to be disappointed in the movie because they've put themselves in the director/producers chair and made decisions, only to see the actual director or producer make decisions contrary to their thinking.

As long the writing, directing, and effects are adequate (which I'm sure they will be) then I'm pretty sure The Hobbit films will come out great!

Gildor


macfalk
Valinor


Jan 26 2010, 2:54pm

Post #10 of 165 (986 views)
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also [In reply to] Can't Post

its not like thranduil would have said to legolas "My son, no there is no need at all for your archery skills in this battle, this battle is just a walk in the park for us elves. Go and guard the kingdom, my son".


Boromirlives
The Shire


Jan 26 2010, 2:59pm

Post #11 of 165 (961 views)
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Have to be careful [In reply to] Can't Post

I too agree it is the most logical character to appear without any continuity issues. The question is, what does it accomplish other than giving us a glimpse of Legolas from an earlier time? Does it really help the story move forward or does it become a small distraction. Would it really draw more people to see the films? I doubt people would be saying... "You know I'd like to see it but since they didn't give Bloom a cameo, I'm gonna pass."

Personally, I wouldn't mind it at all. I doubt Blooms agent would allow him to become a glorified extra. Bloom is just not a big enough actor to make a call like that. Hollyweird frowns upon stuff like that, but as fans, we would love it. I wonder what the future will bring with this. If its done respectfully to the character, he should be downplayed and only used as a little tribute / eye candy for the original films.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jan 26 2010, 3:08pm

Post #12 of 165 (1008 views)
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Bringing continuity to the books is [In reply to] Can't Post

what they are suggesting here:


Quote
So while Legolas had no explicit role spelled out in the text, Princes of Mirkwood wouldn't miss events like the notable capture of Dwarves or the restoration of his father's honor and kingdom via war.


A focus shift in the adaptation game. I'm good with it.






Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 26 2010, 3:12pm

Post #13 of 165 (1007 views)
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There are many reasons that Orlando shouldn't play Thranduil [In reply to] Can't Post

Isn't Johny Depp locked for that role?

That out of my system, I would seriously say that to cast Mr. Bloom as Legolas in the Hobbit is acceptable. They could even give him some lines and go as far as a significant role (A Gamling type expansion of role) as a trusted adviser to the King but (And this is a big but) I would rather not have any "leggy" moments in the Hobbit.

Kangi Ska

At night one cannot tell if crows are black or white.




Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 26 2010, 3:17pm

Post #14 of 165 (1010 views)
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Anyone read the book? [In reply to] Can't Post

There was no battle planed for. The Battle of the Five Armies was a coincidence. After all when the Elves & men set out from the ruins of Esgaroth to the Lonely Mountain they believed that the thirteen and one were most likely dead.

Kangi Ska

At night one cannot tell if crows are black or white.




Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 26 2010, 3:22pm

Post #15 of 165 (992 views)
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Gollum did not escape from the dungeons of the elves [In reply to] Can't Post

I know it was a throw away line but...

Kangi Ska

At night one cannot tell if crows are black or white.




Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 26 2010, 3:34pm

Post #16 of 165 (981 views)
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Now that I have held you in suspense [In reply to] Can't Post

I give you my thoughts about Thranduil & Legolas:

A. If they are going to put Orlando into the Hobbit it should be as Legolas. To cast him as Thranduil would be a real distraction.
B. Thranduil should go to someone who would play it a bit more sinister than the Elves were depicted in LotR after all if you read all of Tolkien you would realize that the Elves were not all sweetness light & wisdom.

Kangi Ska

At night one cannot tell if crows are black or white.




Boromirlives
The Shire


Jan 26 2010, 4:01pm

Post #17 of 165 (910 views)
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I agree... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I give you my thoughts about Thranduil & Legolas:

A. If they are going to put Orlando into the Hobbit it should be as Legolas. To cast him as Thranduil would be a real distraction.
B. Thranduil should go to someone who would play it a bit more sinister than the Elves were depicted in LotR after all if you read all of Tolkien you would realize that the Elves were not all sweetness light & wisdom.

I agree completely. They certainly were heavy drinkers as well. Considering Legolas barely caught a buzz in the drinking contest with Gimli. You could only imagine the amount of wine they had to drink to pass out



(This post was edited by Boromirlives on Jan 26 2010, 4:04pm)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 26 2010, 4:35pm

Post #18 of 165 (918 views)
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Yah but they were drinkin' that cheap Rohan Light Mead! [In reply to] Can't Post

Now the wine of Dorwinion...

Kangi Ska

At night one cannot tell if crows are black or white.




(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Jan 26 2010, 4:36pm)


Boromirlives
The Shire


Jan 26 2010, 5:14pm

Post #19 of 165 (911 views)
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What proof? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
If the beer they drank in the Golden Hall was strong, Men could not even handle a sip of that stuff...



(This post was edited by Boromirlives on Jan 26 2010, 5:15pm)


Eryn
Bree

Jan 26 2010, 5:17pm

Post #20 of 165 (879 views)
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If only!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

I have often dreamed of seeing Orlando back in Middle Earth, but I really don't see it happening. That was a very very strong case put forward, and actually, sensitively done as suggested, it could very possibly work. I do think that it would almost be strange if Legolas never appears, given the importance of the Mirkwood elves in The Hobbit, and his importance in Mirkwood. However, I definitely think that the likelihood of Orlando coming back to play such a bit part, is very slim. And it would be such a risk!!! Some people would really really frown on it. And it would be a huge distraction...
As for him playing Thranduil- good lord, no!!! Disaster!! And totally pointless. I've always backed Johnny Depp for that role anyway... I confess I am actually more excited to find out who will play Thranduil, than who will play Bilbo Blush I am something of an elf-fan, and I am a lot more excited about seeing Mirkwood, and Thranduil, and Thranduil's halls, than I am about seeing the whole of the rest of The Hobbit!!! Crazy


guitarzankansasfan
Lorien


Jan 26 2010, 5:42pm

Post #21 of 165 (876 views)
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Agreed, agreed, agreed. [In reply to] Can't Post

I've already shared my thoughts on this before but I pretty much agree 100% with MrCere.


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Jan 26 2010, 6:51pm

Post #22 of 165 (896 views)
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I don't want him there [In reply to] Can't Post

I will cede the point that it doesn't not make sense for Legolas to be there. There are no continuity contortions required to include him. But my worry is that the temptation is too great to write and build huge big action sequences for him (shield surfing, etc) that don't make any sense in the story. Bard, the dwarves, the goblin king, these are all characters who have been developed throughout the story of The Hobbit, characters who should have big action scenes. I worry that giving a big scene to Legolas will take away the big scenes that make sense for Hobbit characters.

Not to mention that I wonder if a big stunt in the Hobbit will ruin his big stunts in LOTR for future viewers who watch TH first.

And personally, I find big cameos to be cheesy. They show the seams of the movie just a little too much. They remind me that it is a movie. Lucas and Lewis both did it in their prequels (one on film, one in print) and it always makes this vast world they've created seem a little smaller when you explain where everyone/everything comes from.

If they include Legolas at all, I'd rather that it's a quick blink-and-you-miss him, non-speaking cameo, like those given to PJ and the crew.

That said, if GDT et al. choose to include Legolas, I'll be curious to see what kind of scenes they give him.



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_V_
Lorien


Jan 26 2010, 7:00pm

Post #23 of 165 (862 views)
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I always thought so [In reply to] Can't Post

it just makes sense that, as a retcon *within Tolkien's own works*, Thranduil's son would be present as a "helper" alongside him - sort of the Gamling to his father's Theoden, as it were: a captain of the guards, something like that. Probably he'd be head of the group of tracker-Elves that first capture the Dwarves in the forest.

I also agree that it runs the danger of giving him too much and overshadowing Thranduil, but just have him in the background and ***I'd actually like him to say a line or two, but not much.

***personally, what I'd love to see is....a lot of the motivation for Thranduil comes in asides to the reader by the author; unlike Rivendell and Lothlorien, Mirkwood Elves haven't quite given up on Middle-earth yet......or rather, their time has passed, but unlike the other Elves, they refuse to accept it; Thranduil still has dreams of building a "New Doriath" almost, and it says he wants the Dwarves' treasure so he can build up his kingdom until it's as powerful again as the old Elf kingdoms used to be. So it's not PURE greed, but a means to an end.

Anyway, what I'd really like is to have a scene, after the Dwarves get locked up, where Thranduil and Legolas are in the king's council room, and its a big exposition scene where Thranduil is pouring over old maps and such, and Legolas is wondering why they even need to risk getting the treasure...and Thranduil basically gets frustrated and yells at him that while Mirkwood might be all that Legolas has ever known, and they're basically ruling over Silvan Elves and acting like them, Thranduil himself (and thus Legolas by blood) are Grey Elves, Thranduil lived in Doriath and remembers how great the Elves used to be even if the younger generation has forgotten it, and he wants it all back - Legolas will (through the pure child-like eyes of an younger innocent) basically insist that those days of huge powerful Elf kingdoms are gone, they should be happy with what they have now, but Thranduil wont' accept this.

We'd really need an exposition scene for Thranduil, and there really is no pre-existing other "Elf Character" to bounce ideas off of; again, much like the movies needed to have "Gamling" as the King's court guard/lieutenant, so he'd have someone to react to.

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"Pleased to meet you, hope you guessed my name, but what's puzzling you, is the nature of my game"


Formerly known on TORN as "Draug the Unspeakably Violent"



Arasinya
Registered User


Jan 26 2010, 7:17pm

Post #24 of 165 (894 views)
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Legolas in the Hobbit... [In reply to] Can't Post

If you think about it, Tolkien didn't 'Define' a lot of the Mirkwood characters... we only really see Thranduil and the guards- so, if you ask me that leaves room for Legolas to be in the film, because when you think about it- Legolas could have actually had a role, but it just isn't clear what role that is. It would only be natural for Legolas to be at his father's side... maybe it was he who brought in the dwarves, which is plausible.

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Nesse
Lorien

Jan 26 2010, 7:38pm

Post #25 of 165 (852 views)
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Legolas should be in TH [In reply to] Can't Post

I would like to see him in TH as he is a prince of Mirkwood and he was sent by Thandruil to join the fellowship so I think that he would probably have been at his fathers side cant think where else he would be but if he isnt there so be it. Hollywood can do whatever it wants as we have seen, we will just have to wait and see.

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