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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Prosthetics for 13 Dwarves... not to mention all of the other creatures

Owain
Tol Eressea


Dec 19 2009, 7:28pm

Post #1 of 10 (673 views)
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Prosthetics for 13 Dwarves... not to mention all of the other creatures Can't Post

With 4 hours each morning dedicated to JRD's Gimli... I wonder what Richard Taylor has up his sleeve for turning out 13 Dwarves for most of the shoot... we know through the dvd special features, magazine articles, etc of how they accomplished the amazing task of make-up, armory, and wardrobe in LOTR...

I wonder if Richard Taylor posts on these boards?

Smile

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


Hellmistress
Lorien


Dec 19 2009, 7:54pm

Post #2 of 10 (421 views)
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There will be several FX shops ... [In reply to] Can't Post

... probably involved not only in the creation of the dwarves but in everything else. As far as I'm aware, Mike Elizalde of Spectral Motion is G's FX co-ordinator on this/these film(s), and I would have no doubt that Spectral along with other FX shops will be working alongside WETA on this one. Each shop will be allocated certain characters - and will supply the makeup artists to do each actor's makeup. Most key characters will have their own makeup artists -that way actors become 'one' with their team, and they often become very close. Working alongside the makeup guys will be the animatronics designers if they're involved with a character, and each makeup team are on set for the duration that their actor is working. After makeup, the dresser will come along and get each actor into their costume etc., with final fittings done on set. I'm maybe teaching you guys how to suck eggs, and I apologise if I am, but I find the whole FX/makeup world fascinating. Maybe we'll be lucky (as we were on HELLBOY) to have members of the crews calling in to chat once filming begins, providing there is no embargo from the studios.

But anyway, the logistics of a film this size with so many characters will be quite ... interesting! Wink

HM


(This post was edited by Hellmistress on Dec 19 2009, 7:55pm)


debo
Rohan

Dec 20 2009, 12:28am

Post #3 of 10 (352 views)
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That's 13 make-up artists! [In reply to] Can't Post

Lots of work available!!!

Frodo; "What I chiefly need now is courage . . ."


Hellmistress
Lorien


Dec 20 2009, 12:33am

Post #4 of 10 (358 views)
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You're telling me! [In reply to] Can't Post

And depending on the intricacy of the character design, you can have a team of three makeup artists plus animatronic guys working just on the one person - so yup - it's going to be a busy time! Sly

HM


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Dec 20 2009, 2:50am

Post #5 of 10 (404 views)
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Easy solution: Don't use prosthetics! [In reply to] Can't Post

Given the fact that the dwarves (at least 3 or 4 of them) will be central characters that we will need to care about over the course of the films, I think it will be important to use as few prosthetics as possible for their faces (or none at all).

To be perfectly frank, JRD's Gimli suffered, both psychologically and visually, because of the rather ridiculous pizza-esque prosthetics that caked his face. It was an odd sight, because JRD is such a dwarvish-looking individual in his natural state. I couldn't for the life of me understand why they put him through such an onerous process.

And in the hobbit, dwarves, like Thorin and Balin, will be center stage. We need to take them seriously as real characters, not as prosthetic gimmicks. Actors like Brendon Gleeson, Brian Cox, James Cosmo, etc, will not need a drop of makeup to pull it off. All they need is some hair and beard extensions, and they will be ready to go (that was a casting plug, wink wink).

In any event, the money will be better spent elsewhere!

-GM


Owain
Tol Eressea


Dec 20 2009, 4:49am

Post #6 of 10 (329 views)
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Makeup/FX is definitely fascinating... don't apologize at all... [In reply to] Can't Post

It will be really interesting... I wonder if they will develop a "more comfortable" process this time around... I'm sure they will if they can... ah... pain is temporary but film is forever.

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


carrioncrow
Lorien

Dec 21 2009, 12:40am

Post #7 of 10 (342 views)
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13 dwarves [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know much about the nuts and bolts of shooting a film...but it occurs to me that unlikely, or rather impossible, for all 13 members of the Company to appear in foreground closeup at the same time...this leads me to believe that careful scheduling of shots, there would be days when not all members of the company would need to be "ready for their close-up, Mr Demille" and might be populating the middleground or background of that day's filming with less than complete prosthetics in place.

This also makes me wonder about how much they are going to be relying on body doubles. This was a major issue in PJ:LOTR where we had the 9 leads (with at least three differnt relative scales) interacting quite a bit. Much of the HOBBIT quest involves one dwarf interacting with 13 dwarves, this seems easier to accomplish with old school camera tricks/staging, but still.


Snaga
Lorien


Dec 21 2009, 11:13pm

Post #8 of 10 (265 views)
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I remember this coming up a year or more ago [In reply to] Can't Post

I am positive that there was a post or thread in a year or so ago in which this was discussed. Peter Jackson or Richard Taylor was talking about some new tech or material which would have made the facial prosthetics far simpler and more comfortable. I remember that the irony of this, as discussed on the boards, was that this development was made not long after or near the end of JRD's involvement in the LOTR project. I'll comb through some of the ancient posts and see if I can find it.

If memory serves, the information came out during an interview at a trade show like Comic Con or some such. Maybe one of you with a steel trap memory (and not swiss cheese like mine) will come up with more info on this?

"Alas for Boromir! It was too sore a trial!"

-Faramir, reflecting on his brother.


Hellmistress
Lorien


Dec 22 2009, 1:30am

Post #9 of 10 (261 views)
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It's possible ... [In reply to] Can't Post

... advances in prosthetic design and technology is forever ongoing. We have a techno-wiz over on Del Toro Films, Kusanivy, who makes monsters in her basement and is a student of the legendary Dick Smith. She is also au fait with all things makeup (and also knows a number of the guys involved in the biz), and would be well aware of any advances in the material used for prosthetic design. I'll mention it to her.

I do know for example that the designs for 'Hellboy' and especially 'Abe' were made simpler and easier to deal with in the four years between HELLBOY and HELLBOY II - Doug's original design consisted of upwards of 17 individual latex appliances (plus hours of airbrushing each individual stripe, spot and marking). In the second film the material was much softer, comfortable, and the design itself had a major overhaul so that the latex appliances were just about halved in number. It still meant around 6 hours in makeup if it was the head, arms, torso and legs, but it was easier for Doug in the long run. But no matter which way you look at it, you are still having glues and other kinds of adhesives applied directly to the skin, and if you are allergic to them it can be hell. Even if you aren't, it can still leave you at the end if the film with a very irritated epidermis.

EDIT - could the interview have been at IMATS - the International Makeup Artists Trade Show? The L.A. IMATS is held more or less around the same time as Comic Con. If anyone is ever in L.A. for SDCC, it's well worth hanging around and visiting IMATS - it's awesome, and you learn a LOT. (London IMATS is usually in January)

HM


In Reply To
I am positive that there was a post or thread in a year or so ago in which this was discussed. Peter Jackson or Richard Taylor was talking about some new tech or material which would have made the facial prosthetics far simpler and more comfortable. I remember that the irony of this, as discussed on the boards, was that this development was made not long after or near the end of JRD's involvement in the LOTR project. I'll comb through some of the ancient posts and see if I can find it.

If memory serves, the information came out during an interview at a trade show like Comic Con or some such. Maybe one of you with a steel trap memory (and not swiss cheese like mine) will come up with more info on this?



(This post was edited by Hellmistress on Dec 22 2009, 1:34am)


Voorhas
Lorien


Jan 5 2010, 11:15pm

Post #10 of 10 (170 views)
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I Tend to Agree... [In reply to] Can't Post

...but I think JRD was buried under all those appliances to better match him with his scale double, Brett Beatty (who wore a scaled-down version of the same makeup). Brett had to appear in a lot more scenes with "human-sized" characters (and crowds) than the four Hobbits did...the filmmakers probably just thought it was the simplest solution.


(This post was edited by Voorhas on Jan 5 2010, 11:18pm)

 
 

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