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Finrod Felagund 5
The Shire
Aug 18 2009, 10:41pm
Post #1 of 18
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Sauron vs. Dr. Manhattan
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Sauron, at the peak of his powers, has come upon a weird, naked blue man standing amidst the plains of Gorgoroth on his stroll out of Barad-dur to get the Middle-earth Times (he just loves that writer, Rosie Cotton Dowd). It turns out that Dr. Manhattan, also known as Jon Osterman, has come to Middle-earth for a vacation, and wound up in Mordor first by accident. The two naturally butt heads and a great battle is sure to ensue. Who wins? How would the battle play out?
My vote (do not let it influence you!) Dr. Manhattan comes out the winner. While Sauron is indeed a Maia and so far more than a man, so is Dr. Manhattan, a being who can pretty much travel to different planes of existence and, if he so desires it, could create life. We know that NO ONE in Arda aside from Eru could create life, not even Melkor at the peak of his powers, or Manwe at his. Aule created the Dwarves, but without the Flame Imperishable, he could not give them true free will or (for lack of a better word) souls. I think that Sauron may be obliterated for the time being by Dr. Manhattan, who would then go about his business. Sauron would still exist, he'd just end up being like the ghosts in Pac-Man after they get chomped...a pair of eyes heading for safety and a new form. Of course, Manhattan could destroy Sauron utterly by, after he destroyed the bodily form, picking up the ring and teleporting it to the Cracks of Doom. Yet, Sauron would just be an even smaller "pair of eyes" then, and would float around, bodiless and hopeless, for all eternity, because you just can't fully eradicate one of the Maiar, they always seem to keep on being, as it is their destiny to do so.
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Finrod Felagund 5
The Shire
Aug 19 2009, 12:07am
Post #3 of 18
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After a two-year sojourn through history (I read absolutely no fiction during it) I found myself greatly missing it. So, to plunge back into fiction I picked back up LOTR and happily devoured it. My love of Tolkien had never gone away, it just got covered up as I delved into American history, reading book after book on the Civil War, our Presidents, and much else that had to deal with events that transpired before Tolkien even picked up a pen. It is good to be back at TORN and hopefully I'll run into some of the old crowd; I remembered you of course right away, but thought I'd jump into the game before saying hello. Well, I hope you are well and that you are ready to read some of my trademark wall-of-text posts. I'll talk to you again soon, and even if I don't post for a bit, I will be lurking, for my love of history will no longer keep me from Tolkien and from TORN. In the words of George Costanza, "I'm back baby!"
And when you get a chance see Watchmen, it's a terrific film.
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Evernight
Rivendell
Aug 19 2009, 2:54am
Post #4 of 18
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Osterman wins, flawless victory.
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I think no one, except for Eru himself, is a match for Dr. Manhattan. Maybe the Valar can do something to stop him, but I'm not sure.
In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit...
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Alassëa Eruvande
Valinor
Aug 19 2009, 2:11pm
Post #5 of 18
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Well that's a sight and no mistake! I wondered where you'd gotten to! How the heck are you? Still in school? Feeling okay? Gosh, it's good to see you! The arena hasn't been the same, dude.
As for your battle, although I've seen the Watchmen movie, I don't know much about any of the characters. But that whole travelling-to-other-planes thing that Dr. M does might benefit him in a battle with Sauron. So I'll pick Dr. M.
Welcome back!
And suddenly the Ainur saw afar off a light, as it were a cloud with a living heart of flame.
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Finrod Felagund 5
The Shire
Aug 19 2009, 5:57pm
Post #6 of 18
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Well, I am still finishing up school (I have two semesters until graduation) because I had another surgery last summer that caused me to take yet more time off. Other than that, I have been traveling as often as I am able; not to truly far and exotic locales, BUT to interesting and excellent places in our country, like Chicago; Florida (from Walt Disney World to Miami); Williamsburg, Virginia; and Philadelphia all in the last few months. That's about it for me at the present, though I have been writing a lot, reading a lot, and involved in many things. I don't want to get into a political discussion because I mean to offend no one, but I volunteered a bit for the campaign of President Obama during the election of last year. I made phone calls, wrote editorials, and donated what little money I had.
Anyway, after my long sojourn to the "real" world and things like history and politics, I am extremely happy to be back and fully immersed again in fiction, fantasy, and the great J.R.R. Tolkien. I missed TORN while I was away, but I am back now and I should be back for quite a bit. It is great to see you and Arwen's Daughter around here again, and to remember the old times before the TORN update, when the Arena was a wild land inhabited by us few who looked through the monocle. I hope you and your family are well, and I will be around a bit now to talk more and write posts so long your eyes tear up.
As for Doc Manhattan, I will (in a post to come) detail some of the incredible powers he has. Until then, take care and my best to you and yours.
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Tim
Tol Eressea
Sep 4 2009, 1:07pm
Post #10 of 18
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Sauron is a super-natural being who's been around muuuch longer than the good Dr. I think who you fight can bring out how you fight. Matched up against the Dr. - Sauron would prove that he has a far better grasp on the nature of the universe and how to exploit its mechanics.
And that's 9,456,234,173,326 angels I was able to cram on the end of my needle.
Good... Bad..... I'm the guy with the gun.
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Finrod Felagund 5
The Shire
Sep 8 2009, 7:41am
Post #11 of 18
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Sauron = Angel, Dr. Manhattan = Much, Much More
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You cannot really say that you would not give Dr. Manhattan the win because of the way he wound up after his exploits in Vietnam, because you are picking the character from a certain point in his arc just to prove your point. For instance, I'm certain the Sauron you are thinking of for the battle is not the Sauron who is still a worthy subject (for so short a time) to Aule, nor even the one who is Morgoth's chief servant, BUT the Dark Lord who holds the One Ring. That basically puts Sauron at the apex of his power, so choosing him from that point but making certain to choose a Dr. Manhattan who would not fight is unfair. This battle is based only upon the great strength/power of each. Neither can really be killed, though (as I said earlier) Sauron can be turned into shapeless form of nearly nothing (just as he became after the destruction of the Ring). Dr. Manhattan is able, even after obliteration, to rebuild himself.
Although Sauron, in being one of the Ainur and (more specifically) one of the Maiar, is an angelic being who existed before the creation of the world, he is still less powerful than others in his own world. I think of Dr. Manhattan having a type of power than is even far greater than that held by the Valar, and of a level with Eru. However, a battle between Eru and Dr. Manhattan would be pointless. If Eru is indeed a stand-in for God Himself (or Herself, depending on how one views it), then obviously He is unbeatable in ANY battle that one could post. Dr Manhattan, even with his God-Like powers, was (if you believe in God) still a form of life created by SOME Intelligent Being. Sauron though does not have the power, in any of his forms, to defeat Dr. Manhattan. Manhattan, in my eyes, wins the battle, for he could (without even touching the Ring) teleport it to Mt. Doom and let it drop into the fire.
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weathertop
Rohan
Sep 8 2009, 3:27pm
Post #12 of 18
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don't know as if i knew that. I knew he had been corrupted by Morgoth, but didn't realize that was his origin. if thats the case the whole of the Gandalf/Wiki off-thread in the Hobbit forum takes a decidedly unambiguous tilt. (which i was leaning towards anyway)
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Tim Suchecki
Registered User
Sep 15 2009, 3:55am
Post #13 of 18
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In Middle-earth, Sauron would win.
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Dr. Manhattan's abilities are all based on his understanding of and ability to manipulate the particle level that our world is based on. Middle-earth is a world based on a different sort of fabric, which manifests in many ways which are contradictory to our reality, and is manipulated by inherent magical ability and power which Dr. Manhatten doesn't possess. Sauron would have the upper hand as long as the battle took place on middle-earth.
(This post was edited by Tim Suchecki on Sep 15 2009, 3:57am)
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Farawyn
Rohan
Oct 20 2009, 5:34pm
Post #15 of 18
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*************
Disclaimer: The author of this message does not guarantee correct grammar, spelling or English usage. No responsibility can be accepted for the use of this message as a guide to written English.
**************
Discuss:
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balinman
Rivendell
Nov 15 2009, 3:17pm
Post #16 of 18
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In Middle-earth, Sauron would win.
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yeah sauron would so win!
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Cardir
The Shire
Dec 16 2009, 3:01pm
Post #17 of 18
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Dr. M would win in their intial battle, but would not destroy Sauron and would soon lose interest in him. I think Dr. M would be more like Tom Bombadil in that way. I always wondered what would have happened in Sauron had won the WoTR and his forces had spread to the old forest.
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