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Radhruin
Rohan
Apr 23 2007, 8:07am
Post #76 of 98
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The religiosity of the TORn community (at least in the last couple of years or so, despite the occasional claim that the religious are all but persecuted here) does make it feel a bit like coming out of the closet.
I would venture to guess that the claim that "the religious are all but persecuted here" is exactly that. Occasional. I'm amazed at the range of beliefs here. I'd be interested to know if someone can direct me to a message board that has a central theme (like Tolkien's works here), that has a wider expanse of beliefs. One that is as civil (most times) as this board. I would be very surprised to find one.
"A dead thing can go with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it."
~Chesterton
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Apr 23 2007, 12:59pm
Post #77 of 98
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that a group like Phelps's exists with so much hate.
A few days after they came to my town, his daughter wrote a letter to the Rocky Mountain News saying that "God hates with a perfect hate." I wrote a reply, which was also printed, saying that if they're worshipping something that hates with a perfect hate, that's not God they're worshipping.
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"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
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Chance Meeting at Rivendell: a Tolkien Fanfic
and some other stuff I wrote...
leleni at hotmail dot com
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Apr 23 2007, 1:11pm
Post #78 of 98
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Yep, this probably does belong in Off Topic. It makes me chuckle to see what a deep discussion has erupted here.
My church is not a Christian church, and atheists do feel comfortable there. It's us theists who sometimes feel a little out of place. Once they were redoing the bylaws or something and the legal phrase "acts of God" came up regarding roof repairs, only it came out "acts of the G-word".
Regarding people's worry about atheists being amoral: my father is an atheist, and he is the most upright moral person you could ever hope to meet. I can't imagine him ever telling a lie, or stealing, etc. He thinks it's immoral to tape a record and give a copy to a friend, for example. He's been faithful to my mom for over fifty years, and now that she's pretty crippled with Parkinsons, he is her primary caretaker. The ladies in my church call him an angel.
He's also probably the only Republican in my church. He's pretty conservative in almost everything, except his theology and his support of gay rights.
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"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
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Chance Meeting at Rivendell: a Tolkien Fanfic
and some other stuff I wrote...
leleni at hotmail dot com
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Apr 23 2007, 1:18pm
Post #79 of 98
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I'm amazed at the range of beliefs here. I'd be interested to know if someone can direct me to a message board that has a central theme (like Tolkien's works here), that has a wider expanse of beliefs. One that is as civil (most times) as this board. I would be very surprised to find one.
The diversity and civility of this board is the main reason I love it so much. Not only diversity of religion, but of age, political beliefs, nationality, etc. Of course I don't know, but I'd venture to guess that TORn is unique.
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"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
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Chance Meeting at Rivendell: a Tolkien Fanfic
and some other stuff I wrote...
leleni at hotmail dot com
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Darkstone
Immortal
Apr 23 2007, 1:59pm
Post #80 of 98
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We'd been discussing whether it made more sense to assume the universe required a creator to have come into existence, or whether the existence of such a creator begged the question of whence *he* came.
“Some would ask, how could a perfect God create a universe filled with so much that is evil. They have missed a greater conundrum: why would a perfect God create a universe at all?”
-Sister Miriam Godwinson, "But for the Grace of God"
Some time later, my dad's second wife suggested that it doesn't matter what religion one has, as long as they have one, because those miserable atheists "believe in nothing". …Mom once said she worried that she didn't do enough to make me religious instead of an atheist. I believe I reassured her enough that she should be glad to have raised me to be able to determine for myself what I believe and what world view fits me best.
Some of the most moral people I’ve ever met were atheists. I guess it’s because unlike most religious people their morality is based as a self-imposed reasoned choice rather than an exteriorly imposed system of stick (Heck) and carrot (Heaven). I also tend to think it’s because if they do a bad thing they have to answer to their own conscience. They have to forgive themselves, unlike a lot of my fellow Christians who every time they do the same bad things every weekend go “Well, God forgives me so why can’t you?” As my preacher Reverend Ed says, “Sure, Jesus paid for your sins, but that doesn’t mean you can go crazy and run up the bill.”
And before anyone jumps to conclusions, my parents' Catholicism has little to do with my religion-free status--none of this, "ah, THAT's why he's a non-believer, his parents' religion turned him off," business please. (Not that I think anyone in this thread would think or say such a thing, but I've encountered this attitude before.)
Well, that's pretty typical. If people can't think of anything against your argument they start talking about you. Like when I'm in a religious discussion a lot of people will out of the blue pop off that I must be a lapsed Baptist. I always reply, "Acutally I'm a practicing Baptist, and I'm going to keep on practicing until I get it right!"
I met a Balrog on the stair
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.
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Darkstone
Immortal
Apr 23 2007, 2:19pm
Post #81 of 98
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Wifey is a Pagan. She says it's not Christians who put Pagans in the closet, but other Pagans. I wonder if that's the same with Atheists? I know a lot of times the antics of my fellow Baptists make me want to hide in the closet.
I met a Balrog on the stair
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.
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Aerin
Grey Havens
Apr 24 2007, 3:28am
Post #82 of 98
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There are no indulgences for atheists.
I think one of the arguments for religion that irks me the most is that without it, there is no morality, when in fact morality transcends all religions and depends on none of them.
What's especially ironic to me is that so many "practicing" Christians don't follow all of the teachings of Jesus, anyway, but pick and choose according to convenience (for example, how many really accept what he had to say about wealth?).
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Aerin
Grey Havens
Apr 24 2007, 3:37am
Post #83 of 98
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For years, the public face of atheism was Madelyn Murray O'Hair, which would be enough to keep anyone in the closet. That's another reason I'm glad to see people like Richard Dawkins and E. O. Wilson weigh in on religion; being associated with them would be rather less embarassing.
But the attitudes of Christian friends and family members and the attendant fear of ruining relationships is for me an even greater inducement to keep quiet.
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Aerin
Grey Havens
Apr 24 2007, 3:39am
Post #84 of 98
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about the true universality of Tolkien's mythology.
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Radhruin
Rohan
Apr 24 2007, 4:42pm
Post #85 of 98
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"A dead thing can go with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it."
~Chesterton
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Aerin
Grey Havens
Apr 24 2007, 11:22pm
Post #86 of 98
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Hey, I like your footer quotation! /
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Apr 27 2007, 2:16pm
Post #87 of 98
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Have been and will continue to :)
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This is wonderful. I'm still sending post cards AT LEAST once every-other week and have been very prayerful and positive thoughtful about this. Since the beginning, I have had much anxiety about it... but just as strongly I feel Peter Jackson will be filming The Hobbit and its sequel. It's quiet now... and that's not a bad thing.
I truly believe Peter Jackson is determined to finish the job in adapting Tolkien's work; and if he sets his mind to something, he'll find a way.
hugs!
 
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!
"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
TORn's Observations Lists
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Apr 29 2007, 6:46am
Post #88 of 98
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Well, Aerin said it before me!... But
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I hope Chesterton doesn't mean that everything that follows the stream is a dead thing.... which would be going too far and becoming untrue! 
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Apr 29 2007, 7:30am
Post #89 of 98
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Hugs to you too, dear gramma!... And
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I'd like to add that after starting this thread inadvertently at the wrong time, I discovered on the Off Topic board the very similar thread you yourself had started just before, for all concerned by the Virginia Tech terrible incident.
I went through all the many posts, was very moved, and learnt a lot about some of the major cultural differences between the US and the UK, through the people here on TORn.
As a French person - on top of it living in India!...- I felt rather out of place in this Anglo-Saxon world, but that is inevitable, and it's fine, no problem for me.
But what I was a bit sad about since then, was that you had never come over to this thread of mine, and even after all this time there wasn't a single word of support on your part for my proposal. I was afraid that you actually didn't like it.
Now I see that it wasn't the case, and I'm glad about that!
So, thank you very much for coming over finally and saying what you said!... I appreciate it. 
It feels good to know that we are at least a few people (even some of those who initially shunned the idea) who together are sending positive thoughts about this situation, for the best possible outcome. And it feels especially good to know now that you too are among us, gramma! 
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
(This post was edited by mae govannen on Apr 29 2007, 7:31am)
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Arwen_Undomiel
Lorien
Nov 11 2009, 10:52pm
Post #90 of 98
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Aunt Dora Baggins you're great!
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Aunt Dora Baggins,
Great reply. I totally agree with you! Also, I think that the "Prayers for the Hobbit Movie" is a very sweet idea; I'll join in too.
Love,
Arwen
"Life can't be all work and no TORn."-- jflower
I didn't realize this was a sad occasion.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Nov 11 2009, 11:01pm
Post #91 of 98
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Good heavens, that was a long time ago!
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I don't think I've ever gotten a reply after two years :-D But thanks for your sweet words.
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"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven
Nov 15 2009, 5:18am
Post #92 of 98
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I've just been rereading old posts on this forum, starting at the beginning (for a project I'm working on for next May), and was stunned now to find replies made this week to a a thread from 30 months ago!
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Silmarillion in the Reading Room, Aug. 9 - Mar 7. Please join the conversation!
This week: "Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin".
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
How to find old Reading Room discussions.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Nov 15 2009, 3:33pm
Post #93 of 98
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I feel like I've fallen into some kind of time warp. I'm not sure I'd really want to go back to 2007, though. This past year was rough, and I'm glad a lot of it is behind me. Wouldn't want to go through it again. Whew!
Nice to see you, NEB! I'll be like the cat who ate the cheese and sat by the mousehole with baited breath, waiting to see what you're up to in May.
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"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
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Annael
Immortal
Dec 31 2014, 9:12pm
Post #94 of 98
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Since evidence can be adduced and interpreted to corroborate a virtually limitless array of world views, the human challenge is to engage that world view or set of perspectives which brings forth the most valuable, life-enhancing consequences.
- Richard Tarnas, The Passion of the Western Mind
* * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Jan 1 2015, 7:48am
Post #95 of 98
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Oh my!!! This is bringing tears in my eyes!...
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Thank you so much to you for remembering this from so long ago (or stumbling upon it again somehow) and for now adding this so nice conclusion to it all...! 
I must admit I was quite hurt at the time by the rather hostile reaction from some, which I didn't anticipate in the least and which blew my mind - and my heart -, but in the end some kind support came too... and I think you're right: somehow it has worked!!! 
I happen to read this comment of yours on 1.1.2015, the Day of the New Year 2015... May these words from you give me the encouragement I need often in order to summons the courage and self-confidence to follow-up boldly on the ideas and inspirations I may have...
And I take this golden opportunity to address to you too my BEST WISHES FOR THIS NEW YEAR 2015!!!
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Jan 4 2015, 2:21pm
Post #96 of 98
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This has got to be a record for number of years spanned by one thread!
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So glad you're here on the boards, Mae Govannen, and also Annael, who was one of the first people to make me feel welcome here, a loooong time ago!
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"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Jan 4 2015, 2:54pm
Post #97 of 98
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You're probably right about the record!
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And thank you for telling me that about Annael: I had no idea... What a lovely memory it must be for you... As well as an inner link that persists over the years. Your own kindness had that effect on me too.
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Apr 19 2019, 1:20pm
Post #98 of 98
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and had the foresight to do some archiving :D *high five* I hope that project Altaira is working on the do a recovery of the pre-crash posts gets going.
Happy 20th TORniversary on April 26th, 2019 (1 week from now) WHAT A LIFE :D
We have been there and back again.
TIME Google Calendar
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