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Curious
Gondolin
Jun 29 2009, 7:17am
Post #76 of 82
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Yes, many people don't realize
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that "In God We Trust" and "One Nation Under God" were products of the Cold War and the fight against "Godless Communism," and not a part of America's founding. The real "god" of democracy is the Will of the People, with some respect for the Rights of the Minority. Of course, often that can lead a democracy astray -- although few politicians will admit it, the People are not always right.
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sador
Gondolin
Jun 29 2009, 7:25am
Post #77 of 82
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Are they? The things I learn here! //
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"We may not understand him, but that old bird understands us, I am sure." - Balin.
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Curious
Gondolin
Jun 29 2009, 1:18pm
Post #79 of 82
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That's why I didn't capitalize it.
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To put it in less provocative terms, I think quite a few people might agree that politicians are more interested in polls than in God's Will. And I'm not sure that's a bad thing.
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grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
Jul 4 2009, 2:37am
Post #81 of 82
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I like how Tolkien would introduce
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a character major to an event out of nowhere. Like Faramir in TT. In the case of Lake-town, you'd think that the Master of Lake-town would become the central character and not the almost one-liner moody dude we hear from when the Company first arrives.
When the story breaks away from the dwarves and Bilbo to follow Smaug to Lake-town reminds me of Tolkien's tendency to shift gears like he does in LotR. A sort of... "Meanwhile, back at the ranch" moment. He doesn't feel like we need to be spoon-fed a completely linear story. I enjoy the many layered story-telling :)
Why didn't Bard ever consider going after the dragon before he was forced to do so?
Bard was a good little townie. He was used to not being taken seriously... a doom-sayer or, at least, very serious. I think that he never forgot the danger of living in the shadow of the mountain and the dragon within. He didn't go after the treasure until it became apparent that the survivors of Smaug's attack were in for some major suffering now that they were homeless.
would you agree with me that Tolkien does a masterful job within the chapter? Aren't you eager to see this on the movie screen?
Oh yeah... uh-huh! Considering Tolkien sometimes uses many words to put us in a head-space... he also needs very few to create an episode. Masterful, fersher!
monarchy versus democracy when he made Bard the hero and the Master a scheming coward?
We see this theme with Denethor, Saruman, and even Thorin once he claims the treasure. Some leaders think they've become like gods to their realms. The great leaders seem to be the ones who are brought into those roles through fate. Not because they seek it, but because they're sacrificing themselves for the good of the many. The great leaders in Tolkien's stories also seem to be the ones who are not self-serving... like Elrond and Thorin.
Geez, I can't wait to see this on the screen!!!! *twitch*
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.
TORn's Observations Lists
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sador
Gondolin
Jul 5 2009, 12:07pm
Post #82 of 82
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The problem is not so much the new character
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As the new concept. Dain is also new, but we do know Thorin has cousins, friends and relatives somewhere.
On the other hand, we have heard a lot of Girion and Dale, and hear Smaug boast about his destroying it, and we hear about it in Esgaroth with no mention of survivors - and all of a sudden, it goes like: "Gee, you know, we forgot to tell you Girion's wife and daughter did escape, and actually some of Smaug's treasure is rightfully theirs".
Now seen from Bilbo's point of view, this seems reasonable enough, as he might not know about this - however, he does say later he knew Bard well, which he would't if Bard was just an attendant; so this does seem a but like cheating the reader.
So it goes against storytelling conventions, which I don't mind much; but it leaves a taste of 'Shouldn't we have been told of this before?'
"We may not understand him, but that old bird understands us, I am sure." - Balin.
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