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SaulComposer
Rohan
Jun 21 2009, 1:45pm
Post #1 of 12
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'Her Ladyship'
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I have just completed rereading 'The Fellowship of the Ring' and 'The Two Towers' and began rereading 'The Return of the King'.
In 'The Two Towers' The Orcs of the Tower of Cirith Ungol called Shelob "Her Ladyship". Just to tell you that the wicked always exalt evil. They had some bad names for the good people such as Frodo and Samwise, but for them an evil assasin is called 'Her Ladyship', that is just so twisted, evil and horrible.
www.saulcomposer.com
(This post was edited by SaulComposer on Jun 21 2009, 1:48pm)
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One Ringer
Tol Eressea
Jun 21 2009, 2:23pm
Post #2 of 12
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It's like those cliche lines on kids' cartoons ...
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Where the good guy will call the bad guy something like, "You evil, disgusting, lunatic!" And then the villain will reply, "Thank you." It's been done again and again, but in this situation with Shelob it has more class, in my opinion.
(This post was edited by One Ringer on Jun 21 2009, 2:23pm)
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Dreamdeer
Valinor
Jun 22 2009, 12:17am
Post #3 of 12
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They had better respect Shelob--she has Sauron's favor. Since Sauron occasionally commands orcs to drive captives into Shelob's lair, they know that it's worth their hide to say anything too disparaging about her.
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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Twit
Lorien
Jun 22 2009, 3:25pm
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it could be a bit sarcastic as well.
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They know not to get her angry but are taking the mick by calling her 'my lady'.
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FarFromHome
Valinor
Jun 22 2009, 3:32pm
Post #5 of 12
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Yes, that's how it comes across to me too.
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They know not to get her angry but are taking the mick by calling her 'my lady'.
I agree, I don't think it's said out of respect, it's more a kind of humorous/ironic way of talking about a creature they are both afraid of and disgusted by.
(It also emphasises the fact that Shelob is female, which I think is an important part of what makes her so creepily horrible.)
They went in, and Sam shut the door.
But even as he did so, he heard suddenly,
deep and unstilled, the sigh and murmur of the Sea
upon the shores of Middle-earth.
From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings
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SaulComposer
Rohan
Jun 26 2009, 1:27pm
Post #6 of 12
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I really believe that they called her 'Ladyship' because evil creatures view evil as good and they view good as evil.
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Curious
Half-elven
Jun 26 2009, 2:17pm
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Yes, I'm sure they didn't call Galadriel
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her "Ladyship" for any reason.
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Dreamdeer
Valinor
Jun 26 2009, 3:29pm
Post #8 of 12
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Don't get me wrong--what I said doesn't contradict you, necessarily. Evil respects those tough enough to endanger them if they don't pay homage. But the value system isn't necessarily a straightforward negative image of normal values. It has its own distinct logic.
They would feel tempted to grumble against Shelob, because Shelob makes life hard for them (notice how the orcs trade complaints about how hard it is to deal with Shelob versus the Nazgul.) Evil hates anything that interferes with complete self indulgence, whether good or bad. But they also recognize and respect that Shelob does so to meet her own self indulgent agenda. They can identify with her, as they cannot with someone who restrains them out of moral indignation.
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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Curious
Half-elven
Jun 26 2009, 4:42pm
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They grumble about the Nazgul too.//
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sador
Half-elven
Jun 27 2009, 8:51pm
Post #10 of 12
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Evil people can and do hate each other; just look at Ugluk and Grishnakh, neither of which is a shining example of virtue.
But as to your question, consider Shagrat's word from 'The Choices of Master Samwise':
I thought her Sneak brought her a toy, or that you'd perhaps sent her a present, a prisoner of war or something. I take from this that both the orcs of the City and of the Tower were often ordered to serve that lovely Lady, and their name for her makes sense.
"We always elected master from among the old and wise, and have not endured the rule of mere fighting men." - the Master of Lake-town.
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jun 30 2009, 10:22am
Post #11 of 12
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Wicked and evil they are, fersher... and I interpret their dubbing Shelob "her Ladyship" as a respectful sarcasm, since she's anything BUT a Lady; but she his the queen of Cirith Ungol.
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.
TORn's Observations Lists
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GaladrielTX
Tol Eressea
Jun 30 2009, 5:20pm
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I think it’s said with affection
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or what passes for affection among orcs, and mocking humor.
We sometimes call our dog “His Lordship”, as in, “Have you accompanied His Lordship on his perambulation this afternoon?” or, “It is time for His Lordship to dine. We’re getting low on kibbles, BTW.”
~~~~~~~~
The TORNsib formerly known as Galadriel.
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