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Prayers and heart-felt sympathy to Virginia Tech Students, Families, and Staff.
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Magpie
Immortal


Apr 18 2007, 1:02am

Post #101 of 152 (327 views)
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I worked with K-2 [In reply to] Can't Post

and, although I was ready to move to a different phase of my life, it was enormously hard to leave the kids... which I needed to do because various governments decided too much money was being wasted by the school systems and my position was eliminated. The last day of school, I put my purse on my shoulder, did my bus duty and walked to my car. I never went back into the building again.

A Magpie's Nest Soundtrack Site has been updated with new lyric information for TTT.




Aerin
Grey Havens


Apr 18 2007, 4:36am

Post #102 of 152 (337 views)
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Whew! [In reply to] Can't Post

I just heard that all the people I've been working with are unharmed, though of course shaken and grieved by the loss of colleagues and students. What a horrific event.


linkin-artelf
Lorien


Apr 18 2007, 6:24am

Post #103 of 152 (352 views)
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psst, 'esquey [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice to see you back on these boards. I remember you liking Linkin Park, you went to see them in concert, right? Just wanted to draw your attention to my thread a few threads down that has a link to the video of their latest single "What I've done" if you haven't seen it yet. It's eerily fitting to the topic on this thread and really good I think. Would love to hear what you think.
Cheers,
linkie

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
"I walk along the shore and I gaze
At the light that radiates down
Will it travel forth to you
Far across this shimmering sea?"
formerly linkinparkelf


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Apr 18 2007, 6:24am

Post #104 of 152 (299 views)
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Thanks for the update. [In reply to] Can't Post

Glad to hear your companions are well after this horror.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Detail from earliest version of Thror's MapTolkien Illustrated! Jan. 29-May 20: Visit the Reading Room to discuss art by John Howe, Alan Lee, Ted Nasmith and others, including Tolkien himself.

Apr. 16-22: Tolkien's patterns, devices and calligraphy.


Owlyross
Rohan


Apr 18 2007, 7:47am

Post #105 of 152 (311 views)
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Wow! [In reply to] Can't Post

You speak a lot of sense in your post, but this in particular really caught my eye.


In Reply To
When one has a hammer in one's hand, every problem looks like a nail. When one has a gun in one's possession, it's too easy to see it as a solution to a problem. There are too many stressed out idiots walking this earth. I don't trust them to understand how most problems are inappropriate to solve with guns.


"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
Benjamin Franklin
The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think.
Horace Walpole (1717 - 1797)


Owlyross
Rohan


Apr 18 2007, 7:56am

Post #106 of 152 (304 views)
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I don't understand [In reply to] Can't Post

How would allowing people to carry legal guns secretly on a campus have any bearing on someone carrying illegal guns onto a campus? It's ridiculous. Gun control works and there's no two ways about it. The laws in the US are based on a Constitution written when vast tracts of the country were unexplored and unpoliced, meaning people would have to defend themselves. I really can't think of a situation where owning a gun would make any sense in the modern world. If the police do their job properly there's no need for the general populace to own guns. Legally owned guns make it easier for criminals to have access to them, not more difficult, it just leads to more proliferation, and more incidents like this, where a misguided soul who cracks has easy access to guns.

Guns kill people. It's not ok to kill people. So why on earth do people want to own a gun?

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
Benjamin Franklin
The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think.
Horace Walpole (1717 - 1797)


Owlyross
Rohan


Apr 18 2007, 8:32am

Post #107 of 152 (311 views)
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You're right [In reply to] Can't Post

And I don't want to offend. It's a little difficult to be objective about this, especially when you have very strong opinions on as (as I do). But to just put forth a comparison, it's diffcult to find the exact same statistic, but gun crime in the UK only accounts for 0.5% of all crime, and 66% of murders in US are due to gunshot wounds.

And as for legal vs illegal weapons

According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -
  • a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
  • a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
  • family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm

Massacres and Legally-Held Firearms
Worldwide, the majority of recent shooting massacres have been committed with legally-held weapons.
and a comparison
Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):
Homicide Suicide Unintentional
USA 4.08 (1999) 6.08 (1999) 0.42 (1999)
Canada 0.54 (1999) 2.65 (1997) 0.15 (1997)
Switzerland 0.50 (1999) 5.78 (1998) -
Scotland 0.12 (1999) 0.27 (1999) -
England/Wales 0.12 (1999/00) 0.22 (1999) 0.01 (1999)
Japan 0.04* (1998) 0.04 (1995) <0.01 (1997)
* Homicide & attempted homicide by handgun
Data collected by Philip Alpers, Harvard Injury Control Research Center, and HELP Network
http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm

a quote

"The level of gun ownership world-wide is directly related to murder and suicide rates and specifically to the level of death by gunfire."

International Correlation between gun ownership and rates of homicide and suicide.' Professor Martin Killias, May 1993.



"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
Benjamin Franklin
The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think.
Horace Walpole (1717 - 1797)


Magpie
Immortal


Apr 18 2007, 12:47pm

Post #108 of 152 (320 views)
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It's a subject of which I know [In reply to] Can't Post

I debated telling this story yesterday.

When I was a kid (early 60's), my dad had a pump pellet gun. Pellet guns are like BB guns. It looked like a rifle and the pellets were propelled by air compressed by pumping. He kept it handy (front porch) to shot at varmints getting at the vegetable garden. It couldn't do much more than give a good smart to the skin - unless of course you shot someone in the eye. I was a good girl. A good student. A first child who never broke rules. And I had a kitten.

My neighbor, perhaps a few years younger than me was a sullen, bully. He wasn't ever physical in his bully tendencies... just unpleasant and argumentative and socially inappropriate. No one liked him and I think he was even banned from our yard at some point. One day, I heard his German Shepard barking and went out to find he was siccing his dog on my kitten. The cat had climbed up the side of the house and the dog was lunging at it and the kid was laughing and egging the dog on. My parents were gone and I didn't know what to do. And there was the gun. I picked it up, I went outside and I pointed it at him and I said, "Get your dog away from my cat." I remember looking past him at his parents who were just standing there watching us. He reined in his dog and went home, I put the gun away and got a ladder and retrieved the cat and waited for my parents to come home. When they did I told my dad and he just said, "Never do that again." It's a testament to the time and the place that I was never reported to the police. I don't know if the kid's parents knew it was a pellet gun or just hoped that, if it were a real rifle that it wasn't loaded. Perhaps they even thought the kid deserved it. I lived in a kind of rough neighborhood and kids weren't coddled.

But I have pondered, and I hope you all ponder, how this might have played out differently if that had been a real, loaded gun, not meant for shooting squirrels but meant to protect the family from who knows what perceived, speculative dangers. I said, "
There are too many stressed out idiots walking this earth. I don't trust them to understand how most problems are inappropriate to solve with guns." and wanted to say I wasn't a stressed out idiot. But I was. I had a problem and I looked around for a solution and the gun was there... so I used it. That has stayed with me for 40 years.

A Magpie's Nest Soundtrack Site has been updated with new lyric information for TTT.




Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Apr 18 2007, 12:52pm

Post #109 of 152 (332 views)
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Very well said, Tintalle [In reply to] Can't Post

I was also once in favor of banning guns, and I also have a son who is a gun collector. Thank God he's never had occasion to use a gun.

When I was a little girl I loved playing with toy guns. I changed my mind on June 6, 1968, when I was 11. I became an advocate for gun control. But I've done a lot of thinking since then. A few years ago I heard a lecture by a Japanese-American man who was in an internment camp here during WWII. He said the first thing that happened was the Japanese-Americans were told to surrender their guns, and being good Americans, they did as they were told.

Like, you, I get queasy when my son brings his latest gun to show us. But I don't necessarily think government bans are the answer.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chance Meeting at Rivendell: a Tolkien Fanfic
and some other stuff I wrote...
leleni at hotmail dot com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Owlyross
Rohan


Apr 18 2007, 1:01pm

Post #110 of 152 (303 views)
Shortcut
Thanks for the story [In reply to] Can't Post

It shows the dangers inherent in any sort of gun (and of course your good morals).

I remember being in the park aged about ten or so. I was shot in the bum by a pellet gun (from a long way away) by a group of kids who I didn't know. It bloody hurt through my jeans I can still remember it. My grandad had a air rifle he used to shoot rabbits with (he rarely hit them) and it was locked away. I was always scared of it and he taught me to respect it.

Guns are there and are made with the sole intention of harming or killing other living things. This is why I hate them, and I can't understand why anyone would want to own one.

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
Benjamin Franklin
The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think.
Horace Walpole (1717 - 1797)


Advising Elf
Rohan


Apr 18 2007, 1:38pm

Post #111 of 152 (314 views)
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Well, well. . . [In reply to] Can't Post

That is a good idea.

Pump shotguns would work real well, too. The sound of one being pumped is loud and unmistakeable, especially in a quiet house.

Yahoo!Group with good stuff to download:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LOTRgoodies/


'esquey
The Shire


Apr 18 2007, 2:05pm

Post #112 of 152 (335 views)
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Orr.. [In reply to] Can't Post

the perpetrator could have a gun on him and fire back assuming you were trying to kill him. Again, violence (or pretend violence) does not reduce the chances of deaths.

*Formerly known as Frodo-esque*


'esquey
The Shire


Apr 18 2007, 2:06pm

Post #113 of 152 (290 views)
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Thanks so much! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll certainly have to check it out! I'm excited--this must mean a new CD is on it's way!

*Formerly known as Frodo-esque*


Advising Elf
Rohan


Apr 18 2007, 2:56pm

Post #114 of 152 (328 views)
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A comment about rights in general. . . [In reply to] Can't Post

The surest way to lose a right is to abuse it.

Even though it's obvious from my previous posts that I'm against gun control (at least what might be called "draconian" gun control) I agree that this right is abused here in the U.S. Our right to freedom of speech is also abused (e.g. pornography). People are afraid of losing a "right" completely, so they put up with all kinds of abuse of it.

Unfortunately, our Constitution didn't have a Bill of Responsibilities to go along with it's Bill of Rights.

Yahoo!Group with good stuff to download:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LOTRgoodies/


Aerlinn
Lorien


Apr 18 2007, 3:00pm

Post #115 of 152 (339 views)
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That's [In reply to] Can't Post

A little offensive in its pontificating tone.

I'm not a 42-year-old American, but a 37-year-old American. And: Here in Connecticut, I have never had any fear of being shot while at work, out shopping, on a bus or train, in a supermarket or just walking down the street. No one I know has or wishes to own a gun. No one I know has been the victim of gun crime. No one I know has been in a situation where their life has been in danger because of the easy availability of guns. I have never seen a gun or held one.

I have a dear friend living in New York City who could say much the same. You're making broad judgements based on flawed and biased information.

I've never been afraid of being bombed in a train station. Can a 42 year-old Brit say the same?

'I cannot read the furry letters,' said Frodo in a quavering voice.
'No,' said Gandalf, 'but I can.'

'One Ring to drool on them all, One Ring to heed them
One Ring to bring them all and remind them all to feed them
In the land of Kitchen where the litter lies.
'

697.08


(This post was edited by Altaira on Apr 18 2007, 4:05pm)


Aerlinn
Lorien


Apr 18 2007, 3:12pm

Post #116 of 152 (367 views)
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Such as, perhaps [In reply to] Can't Post

Sweeping statments about the worthlessness and depravity of the entirety of American culture which would always be offensive and inaccurate and are even more so right now in the midst of national mourning? Yes. Indeed.

Maybe I didn't miss TORn so much after all when I couldn't get here.

'I cannot read the furry letters,' said Frodo in a quavering voice.
'No,' said Gandalf, 'but I can.'

'One Ring to drool on them all, One Ring to heed them
One Ring to bring them all and remind them all to feed them
In the land of Kitchen where the litter lies.
'

697.08


(This post was edited by Aerlinn on Apr 18 2007, 3:14pm)


L. Ron Halfelven
Grey Havens


Apr 18 2007, 3:18pm

Post #117 of 152 (338 views)
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It missed you even if you didn't miss it! [In reply to] Can't Post

But I agree with what you say. I'd be in favor of making it board policy to treat national aspersions on par with personal aspersions.


Fight for us! And regain your honor, learn valuable technical skills, and qualify for up to four years' college tuition! What say you?


Owlyross
Rohan


Apr 18 2007, 3:24pm

Post #118 of 152 (272 views)
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I totally agree with you /nt [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
Benjamin Franklin
The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think.
Horace Walpole (1717 - 1797)


Aragorn'sSexyScar
Rohan

Apr 18 2007, 3:31pm

Post #119 of 152 (774 views)
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Yes, but the threat is there! [In reply to] Can't Post

 
30,000 people were killed by handguns in the US last year.You can correct me if I'm wrongabout the figure.I think about 150 people were killed last year through guns---but nobody in this country can walk into a store and walk out with an object specifically designed to take a life. The fact that guns are so easily available in the US means that any disturbed individual is capable of arming him/herself to the teeth and there isn't much that anyone can do.Wouldn't you like to live in a soceity where that threat is just not at the back of one's mind? Do you really need to have the option of buying one gun per month?!

At work I am often quizzed on what's going on in America because I've travelled the country many times---but not one person has mentioned the Virginia shooting.Not one.There will be another shooting in the future and that's one of the saddest aspects of this tragedy.How many more deaths will it take before people change their attitude about guns?

Well, I never think that I will be blown up when I'm on a train or a bus.That was a reaction to the *wonderful* policies of the US & UK governments .I've went to London in January and never even thought that I would be a victim of terrorrism---or a random shooting.

I want all Americans to be able to live long lives but until the gun laws are stricter then such incidents as happened at Virginia Tech will occur again.


Lossefalme
Gondor


Apr 18 2007, 3:34pm

Post #120 of 152 (287 views)
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Hear, hear! [In reply to] Can't Post

I haven't finished reading all of the posts, yet, but as far as VT goes, a person that sick and far gone is going to find a way to do what he wants no matter what laws we have in place. It's a horrible, inconceivable tragedy that we will never make sense of, but we shouldn't go off the deep end about it. I can't even imagine what people who are closer to the situation are feeling right now, but even the students there are looking for some semblance of "normalcy," and I think that they are right. I bought a book called September 12th that was written by a classroom of students and it talks about how the sun still came up, etc. after 9/11. We take back some of our power when we don't let senseless violence like this rule how we live our lives.

(Formerly Lossefalme3, just in case you're wondering)*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Aragorn threw back his cloak. The elven-sheath glittered as he grasped it, and the bright blade of Andúril shone like a sudden flame as he swept it out. 'Elendil!' he cried. 'I am Aragorn son of Arathorn, and am called Elessar, the Elfstone, Dúnadan, the heir of Isildur Elendil's son of Gondor. Here is the Sword that was Broken and is forged again! Will you aid me or thwart me? Choose swiftly!' TTT, Book III, Chapter 2
And Éomer answered: 'Since the day when you rose before me out of the green grass of the downs I have loved you, and that love shall not fail.' RotK, Book VI, Chapter 5




Lossefalme
Gondor


Apr 18 2007, 3:39pm

Post #121 of 152 (278 views)
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I had a friend who attended years ago [In reply to] Can't Post

and he has a sweatshirt that says "VT" on it. I don't know if it's new or not, (refering to VPI), but that's what it says.

(Formerly Lossefalme3, just in case you're wondering)*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Aragorn threw back his cloak. The elven-sheath glittered as he grasped it, and the bright blade of Andúril shone like a sudden flame as he swept it out. 'Elendil!' he cried. 'I am Aragorn son of Arathorn, and am called Elessar, the Elfstone, Dúnadan, the heir of Isildur Elendil's son of Gondor. Here is the Sword that was Broken and is forged again! Will you aid me or thwart me? Choose swiftly!' TTT, Book III, Chapter 2
And Éomer answered: 'Since the day when you rose before me out of the green grass of the downs I have loved you, and that love shall not fail.' RotK, Book VI, Chapter 5




Lossefalme
Gondor


Apr 18 2007, 3:41pm

Post #122 of 152 (269 views)
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I agree with you on both points, L. Ron. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

(Formerly Lossefalme3, just in case you're wondering)*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Aragorn threw back his cloak. The elven-sheath glittered as he grasped it, and the bright blade of Andúril shone like a sudden flame as he swept it out. 'Elendil!' he cried. 'I am Aragorn son of Arathorn, and am called Elessar, the Elfstone, Dúnadan, the heir of Isildur Elendil's son of Gondor. Here is the Sword that was Broken and is forged again! Will you aid me or thwart me? Choose swiftly!' TTT, Book III, Chapter 2
And Éomer answered: 'Since the day when you rose before me out of the green grass of the downs I have loved you, and that love shall not fail.' RotK, Book VI, Chapter 5




Lossefalme
Gondor


Apr 18 2007, 3:43pm

Post #123 of 152 (280 views)
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It's nice to hear some good news. [In reply to] Can't Post

This is going to haunt them for a long time and they are in my thoughts and prayers.

(Formerly Lossefalme3, just in case you're wondering)*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Aragorn threw back his cloak. The elven-sheath glittered as he grasped it, and the bright blade of Andúril shone like a sudden flame as he swept it out. 'Elendil!' he cried. 'I am Aragorn son of Arathorn, and am called Elessar, the Elfstone, Dúnadan, the heir of Isildur Elendil's son of Gondor. Here is the Sword that was Broken and is forged again! Will you aid me or thwart me? Choose swiftly!' TTT, Book III, Chapter 2
And Éomer answered: 'Since the day when you rose before me out of the green grass of the downs I have loved you, and that love shall not fail.' RotK, Book VI, Chapter 5




Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 18 2007, 3:45pm

Post #124 of 152 (294 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

First, burglars don’t like noise. If he’s a burglar he’s going to run at the first sound of any loud noise.

Second, burglars will usually not be carrying weapons. They know the difference between burglary and armed robbery. (About 20 years.)

Three, the louder the noise you make the more likely help will come.

Fourth, if a guy is in your house in the middle of the night with a gun out he’s there to hurt you anyway. If he thinks you’re alert and armed he’s going to back off.

I met a Balrog on the stair
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


Owlyross
Rohan


Apr 18 2007, 3:45pm

Post #125 of 152 (306 views)
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157 people died in bomb blasts in Iraq today [In reply to] Can't Post

with more than 90 injured. I don't know if this puts yesterday's news in perspective.

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
Benjamin Franklin
The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think.
Horace Walpole (1717 - 1797)

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