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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
PROPS, April 4 : 2009 Elrond's study
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Magpie
Immortal


Apr 4 2009, 7:51pm

Post #1 of 29 (1612 views)
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PROPS, April 4 : 2009 Elrond's study Can't Post

My intention this week was to focus on the FOTR extended scene where Elrond and Gandalf are discussing the history and potential fate of the Ring. This starts in a very open air balcony location and then moves into a more enclosed location that has desks and writing implements.

In my investigation of various sources, I learned that this spot, the Council area, and the statue holding the Shards of Narsil are all part of "Elrond's Chambers". I hadn't realized that they were all so close in location. I hadn't thought about it much, I guess. But I wouldn't have been surprised to learn that they were three completely different locations. I decided to keep my post focued on what we see in this one scene and leave the other two areas for future discussions. I can't say that this area is officially called the 'study' but it worked for me.

My first screencap is when Elrond walks from the balcony area where he and Gandalf first begin talking towards the study. You can see Gandalf still on the balcony. You can see bookshelves.


larger version

Next we see Elrond walking into the more enclosed area. I think my screen is darker than some folks but I needed to lighten this up a bit to see anything.


larger version

It's hard in this shot to make out a lot, I'd have to watch it on a big screen to see what's visible there. But, besides the candles, I notice an inclined desk with what appears to be feathered quills with books piled nearby. There also seems to be a tablecloth on a table and a chair (?) near it. I have a slightly larger image I'll post in a reply.

The camera pans around to catch Elrond:

larger version


On the left, you can see the book that was visible on the inclined desk. We also see scrolls. Do you think these are texts in scroll form (rather than bound pages form) or maybe they're maps. It's interesting that all the candles are lit but it seems to be quite bright outdoors. Granted, it would be darker in the enclosed area but why keep candles lit during the day when no one is around working?

The camera continues to pan.

larger version
Now we're seeing a bit more of the desk facing the one we saw before. Quills? Ink bottles? (When I was young, I used to sit at desks that had holes in them for ink bottles). Behind Elrond is a bust on a tall display table.

So besides wondering about the candles, I also wonder about the functionality of having all this so open. If you were to walk up the stairs on the right side of that image, you'd be right there in the Council area. If you were to walk up the stairs to the second floor that you see on the far wall behind Elrond, you'd be on the level with the Shards of Narsil. You can see the statue holding them in other images and it's right above the arch you see a third from the left edge of the last image.

I've learned that even the slightest breeze will send paper flying and surely this area gets breezes. I would also think it would rain and blow here.

I have close up images of some of these items that I'll put in a reply post.





PROPS: (1) acronym for Personal Reflections On Props and Sets; or (2) acronym for Perfectly Reasonable Occupation for People on Saturdays; or (3) all cap version of the word 'props'
A series of discussions about props conceived and organized by Frederica Bolger wherein discussion leaders are "free to choose their own topic and format, which could be a whole environment, an especially interesting item, a set of related items (boats, doors, jugs), or a comparison... possibilities are endless."



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Magpie
Immortal


Apr 4 2009, 8:06pm

Post #2 of 29 (688 views)
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slightly larger views [In reply to] Can't Post

Below is a little larger view of some of these items.








It seems there are enough writing implements that there must be some inscribing going on at these desks. I'm surprised at the angle of incline for writing. I would think having it be a bit flatter would be better. Anyone here do calligraphy or lettering?

In the appendices there are more images in the section called "Elrond's Chambers". They don't seem high quality images to me and it's hard to tell where some items are by trying to catch them in fleeting glances in the scenes. But I've put a few things that seem likely to be part of this study area in a Picasa album that you can view here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/...serLookElrondSStudy#
There are definitely some interesting items seen in appendices shots that I can't see in the film but I decided not to include them in this discussion since we'll be discussing the appendices material separately. But there is a close up of the bust that I'm sure is the one we can see in this scene:



Any thoughts on the study?



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batik
Tol Eressea


Apr 4 2009, 8:41pm

Post #3 of 29 (701 views)
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Again with the open flames and flammable items... [In reply to] Can't Post

like in the archives room at Minas Tirith! No doubt the candles are lit on an as needed basis....but is there a candle lighter/extinquisher on duty to take care of this chore?
Of Bilbo's study, the archives, and this room--this is the one I would most enjoy exploring. Hats off to the crew for once again paying attention to detail. I love wood but am also a little partial to stone architecture and really like the curves and arches here (esp. the steps).
In a couple of the screencaps in your original post, the "lattice" work (for lack of a better word) at the top of the columns reminds me of the hair "accessory" worn by Arwen when she arrives in Minas Tirith. Crazy
Statues/busts--well that's three we've seen in Rivendell-- that I can think of. I do prefer the capturing of images of people through paintings/drawings than this method. Now, it is impressive but just never has really appealed to me.
Laugh...in the first shot of your 2nd post>>at first glance the quills in the ink well looked like a ceramic bird!


(This post was edited by batik on Apr 4 2009, 8:43pm)


weaver
Half-elven

Apr 4 2009, 11:14pm

Post #4 of 29 (661 views)
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So, he has his own Chambers, does he? [In reply to] Can't Post

And we aren't talking Diane...Smile

I did not realize all these sets were meant to be part of a unit and assigned to Elrond. But I can see where that makes sense.

On the open air design, Elves live in harmony with nature -- so I suppose they have some really advanced way of just letting leaves in but not rain...and if they could do that, well they probably also know how to make dripless candles that don't burn anything other than themselves, too..

It's kind of interesting looking at this place after we had the PROPs shots of the Minas Tirith library and Bree -- the elves are just much more genteel..

Like you, the desk intrigues me, and the dining area. I also notice the books, and the patterns used on the design of the floor and the columns. I had not noticed the bust before, so thanks for the close up on it. Very classy, like the rest of the place.

I know when it came to dwarves, they counted on JRD's portrayal of Gimli to give us an idea of dwarven culture...when it comes to elves, I think the settings, costumes, and props chosen really do a lot to tell us about their culture and values, and contribute to the sense that they are "immortal, fairest and wisest of all beings", except of course, when it comes to trying to micromanage your daughter's love life...

Thanks for the many different images, this was a treat!

Weaver



simplyaven
Grey Havens


Apr 5 2009, 1:12am

Post #5 of 29 (650 views)
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If I could only get in there... [In reply to] Can't Post

Elrond would not be able to drag me out, not even with all his magic! Tongue I love it! The first time I saw the movie the Shire and Rivendell were the two places which impressed me deeply and really touched me. Rivendell and particularly these shots are so elegant, distinguished, there is so much air in this gallery, it is absolutely beautiful! I like very much the combination stone + metal, very classy. The balcony across and above the waterfalls is to die for! I can imagine what it si to work in this study listening to the whispering waters... Or spending a summer night on the balcony watching the moon in the water... It is very Elvish, isn't it?

Then the artwork on all columns is amazing. The detail follows all this art nuveau line assigned to the Elvish culture and makes the columns and the staircase look light and elegant. Also, the fact that they built a gallery to follow the crescent elements in the rest of the design and the general affection of Elves towards night, stars, moon is amazing.

Some of the most beautiful details for me are the candle holder which resembles a harp; the two candle holders with ametist-like stones at the top; the ink phial is absolutely lovely!; the feather holder on the side of the desk - what an attention to detail!

On one of the photos in your gallery the desk is shown from another angle and actually it does seem comfortable as there is a lower level of the writing plot and the chair seems to be just the right height. In any case, I remember how we were taught to write without touching the desk with our elbows (something I do all the time now). I assume this desk was made to teach such proper writing culture too.

Oh, and the rolls are different sizes, so my guess is the smaller ones are letters but the bigger ones are maps. After all, Elrond was quite of a counsellor and he had so many relations with other lands that he probably received lots of letters and tried to follow what happened far beyond the borders of Rivendell.

And last but not least, as weaver says, Elves loved nature. Just like in Lorien they literally lived under the sky, I guess in Rivendell they wouldn't mind wind or rain. At least Elrond has a roof above him Wink

Thank you for this wonderful PROPS, Magpie! Really, what a beautiful collection of caps, I saved some of them to look and enjoy! Smile

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grammaboodawg
Immortal


Apr 5 2009, 2:50am

Post #6 of 29 (686 views)
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I love this part of Rivendell [In reply to] Can't Post

Every living area is open and also seems enchanted against the wind and elements crossing into the rooms. The layers of his Home remind me of how it would be living in Lorien where there are flets and levels as well, but Rivendells is part of the hills, so they'd be more modest and almost rolling. This seems like one of the more cluttered areas of Rivendell. The other rooms we've seen are well-ordered and almost sparce in their furniture and decor.

This study might be just outside the "library" area to the left where Arwen may be looking through the books as seen in some stills. Here's a Concept art of that living area that shows more of how the shelves of books would be displayed.

Your second shot makes me think of Bag End where there are hints of more rooms as you go deeper in.

One of the first things I'd noticed about this space is the table where it looks like there had been some dining going on. When we come to the scene of them talking, there's glasses of wine being shared as you would after a good meal and good company :)

You can also see the Shards of Narsil statue up behind the Council meeting... the statue's back towards the participants.

This is fantastic, Magpie. I've gotten so much more out of the shot with your more detailed pictures. Even the flooring designs stand out!

Thanks so much :D



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Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Apr 5 2009, 4:36am

Post #7 of 29 (649 views)
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I love those bookshelves, but [In reply to] Can't Post

I wonder if they don't obscure the books on the ends? Maybe they keep the picture books there to hide them. Cool

I also never realized these rooms were meant to be connected.

They do seem to keep the books and desks well away from many of the windows. Perhaps they just move and cover things when it rains? And if the porch is sheltered or they have large eaves on the house, that could protect the rooms further.

I love the tile on his floor! All the tile in the movies is great work, but this is one of my favorite tile patterns!



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Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


Apr 5 2009, 5:06am

Post #8 of 29 (699 views)
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Want! Want! Want! [In reply to] Can't Post

I neeeed a bookcase/hutch/thingy like in the first pic, if nothing else.

One of my art teachers used to roam the room, randomly lowering or raising our desks when he saw the perfect opportunity to do so (hands momentarily away from the work). "Perspective!" ..."If you don't like it? Then make a habit of changing the slope, stepping back, or walking away for a while so I don't have to come over and change your perspective for you."..."You'll thank me someday." He'd do it even if you were doing calligraphy. I still find it hard to keep my drawing board or writing desk at a consistent angle with comfort......

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Elven
Valinor


Apr 5 2009, 1:27pm

Post #9 of 29 (782 views)
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Ahhh! [In reply to] Can't Post

What a beautiful place to live ... and live, and live, and live ... Smile

I love the study - the books - the quills and the beautiful bottles.
The stand that the written papers are on, must be for reading - I do a little calligraphy, and was taught with nib and ink in school - I dont remember the desk being sloped (newer desks) - but if I am writing I prefer a flat level surface not one on a slope I like the ink to flow - though if Im drawing I prefer a very slight slope to a flat surface. This is why I think I think the paper stand, or book stand is not for writing.

I could never get my head around Rivendell's outlay. Is there a floorplan somewhere? Smile

I also like this lamp - (and hope to make one similar).





I never noticed Elrond pour from the decanter before - its not really in shot, and there's a good shot of the stand and the 'lovers entwined' on the hall stand.
and theres a brass stand over on the right of screen - at first I thought it might be a hat stand (not that I've seen a elf wearing a hat) or cloak stand?




I love the idea of the design on the floor - but its very hard to see ...

Great discussion Magpie! Thankyou! Smile
Cheers
Elven


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Elberbeth
Tol Eressea


Apr 5 2009, 5:08pm

Post #10 of 29 (643 views)
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So if Elrond's study is openly connected to [In reply to] Can't Post

the area where the shards of Narsil lie, does that mean that Aragorn was not actually reading, but eavesdropping on Elrond and Gandalf's conversation? Perhaps that *look* that we all love is in fact reaction to Elrond's "He has chosen exile" comment, rather than Boromir's presence?

Just a thought.

"There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark."


OhioHobbit
Gondor

Apr 5 2009, 6:24pm

Post #11 of 29 (621 views)
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I wouldn’t mind a place like that. [In reply to] Can't Post

These screen caps are terrific. I absolutely love all of Elrond’s chamber and everything in it. I would love to have that bookcase. Also, on a table between Elrond and Gandalf, you can’t see it at this angle, sits a statuette that I would dearly love to have. I believe that it is of two Elves dancing. I have also seen it in the extras, I think sitting on a shelf in an office at Weta.

I remembered that Daniel Reeve had mentioned the books and papers that he had done in an interview in the Fan Club magazine and so I looked it up. When asked about the large book pages he created for the story of Turin Turambar in the Rivendell chamber this is what he replied.

“They were used to decorate the dressings for the Rivendell set. The Elvish verse of the Fall of Gil-galad, which I had to create to follow the first two that J. R. R. Tolkien did in The Lord of the Rings, was interesting. I did that in black and gold calligraphy. The list of Numenorean kings…there are all these details on the Rivendell set. The large book sitting on a lectern on Elrond’s chamber opens on a page.”
The Lord of the Rings Fan Club Official Movie Magazine, Issue No. 7, Pg. 66

Thank you, Magpie

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OhioHobbit
Gondor

Apr 5 2009, 6:33pm

Post #12 of 29 (637 views)
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Here you go. [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I could never get my head around Rivendell's outlay. Is there a floorplan somewhere?


http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/3010

I hope this helps.

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frederica bolger
Lorien


Apr 5 2009, 7:03pm

Post #13 of 29 (616 views)
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Thank you so much Magpie... [In reply to] Can't Post

... for extracting all these lovely shots!

I was always in two minds about the Art Nouveau Elves, but here it works perfectly, with the interiors picking up the plant motifs of branches and leaves... especially love the tree-like design on the book case.

And also the thought that this is the working diplomatic headquarters of Elvendom in Middle-earth, and not 'just' a library.

Any idea who this is on the bust... has some family resemblance to Elrond, could it be Elros, his long-dead brother?

Rain may fall and wind may blow
And many miles be still to go
But under a tall tree I will lie
And watch the clouds go sailing by.


Magpie
Immortal


Apr 5 2009, 7:03pm

Post #14 of 29 (612 views)
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wow [In reply to] Can't Post

I wish that scan were better. This is apparently from American Cinematographer Dec 2001.

That mag has online archives but not for 2001. They also don't have this issue available for back order. It seems something is at this site:
http://vnweb.hwwilsonweb.com/...S&issn=0002-7928
but you need a subscription. Maybe if I went to my library I could access it.

Does anyone have this magazine and/or have a subscription to Wilson Web to see what they have?


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Magpie
Immortal


Apr 6 2009, 3:26am

Post #15 of 29 (611 views)
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lattice work [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
the "lattice" work (for lack of a better word) at the top of the columns reminds me of the hair "accessory" worn by Arwen when she arrives in Minas Tirith.



Yeah... the Rohirrim use some knot work too but theirs is more structured in the style of the Vikings. This is all loose and organic more in the Art Nouveau style. It also carries through in the knot work in Elrond's hair.


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Magpie
Immortal


Apr 6 2009, 3:31am

Post #16 of 29 (605 views)
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great image [In reply to] Can't Post

There were a lot of images in the design galleries of FOTR Appendices, but I wasn't sure where a lot of the things would be found. If this concept art was consistent with the final plan, than it explains where all the bookshelves that were shown might have been... although a lot of them looked more freestanding than some of those do.

There is also a clear shot of a dining table in the appendices but I wasn't entirely sure if its the table with the tablecloth that we see in this scene. I'm also not clear if the shots we see in the galleries were the final placement of items for shooting. It seems to me that some items are shown in more than one location in the gallery.


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Magpie
Immortal


Apr 6 2009, 3:35am

Post #17 of 29 (602 views)
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obscured books [In reply to] Can't Post

I have this problem in more than one place with bookshelves. I always have to find some unimportant book to cram in this spot to keep the ones I want easy access to from being obscured (as you put it).

I have a great deal of trouble in my house with papers and breezes. The mail gets opened and left on the dining room table and the least breeze sends them flying (the same with the napkins unless they're properly put into the holder which prevents that... something that seems to escape the men in the household). I also have problems in my computer room. I actually have quite a few paperweights that I use diligently up here. I just can't believe those papers wouldn't go flying at the least breeze. But then, it's just a movie.


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Magpie
Immortal


Apr 6 2009, 3:36am

Post #18 of 29 (592 views)
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thanks for the 'perspective' on drawing and lettering! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


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Magpie
Immortal


Apr 6 2009, 3:39am

Post #19 of 29 (605 views)
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that is an interesting question. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll have to pay more attention to where that bench is located, especially in relationship to the edge of the balcony. I bet sounds would carry in an interesting way in this place. I knew someone who had a dome house and it was uncanny how sounds would carry. I was sitting along the wall on the first floor and I could, clear as a bell -- as if it were next to me, a conversation taking place at normal volume on the 2nd floor balcony that overlooked the other half of the downstairs.


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Magpie
Immortal


Apr 6 2009, 3:45am

Post #20 of 29 (603 views)
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dancing elves [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, I gathered a screen shot of those from the appendices but I wasn't sure where they were located. I guess I missed them in the movie (I mostly watch on my computer and the image is small and dark).




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Magpie
Immortal


Apr 6 2009, 3:46am

Post #21 of 29 (599 views)
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no idea on the identity of that bust. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


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weaver
Half-elven

Apr 6 2009, 3:56am

Post #22 of 29 (597 views)
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thanks for the floorplan! [In reply to] Can't Post

Between that and Magpie's images, I finally see how they put this set together..thanks!

Weaver



grammaboodawg
Immortal


Apr 6 2009, 10:35am

Post #23 of 29 (609 views)
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Here's a pic of Gandalf and Elrond [In reply to] Can't Post


at the table with a setting that looks to be for 2... maybe 3 if Gandalf is holding his elegant glass.

I saw the sketch of the library at the Lord of the Rings exhibit in Indianapolis... and I couldn't help but cry. It's by Alan Lee. It's pretty large and the little figure at the table is Bilbo. To see his work in person was awe-inspiring. I kept going back to it over and over again during the 4 visits I made to the museum over a 2-day period. Surreal is the only word I can find for that exhibit. I felt out of time.



sample

"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."

I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.



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Elven
Valinor


Apr 6 2009, 11:30am

Post #24 of 29 (614 views)
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OMG!! That is soooo cool!! *Elven bows* ... [In reply to] Can't Post

WOW - how did you find that LOL!! Awesome!
Thats the best things I learnt this year!

You're a champion!
Thankyou so much!

Cheers
Elven


Swishtail.

Tolkien was a Capricorn!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn!!

Avatar: Liberace - The other Lord of the Rings.

Quote of The Week: The thing is I always write in the morning, and I know that if I go to the Net I won’t write ... you can start in the most scholarly website and end up at Paris Hilton dot com .. GdT


Magpie
Immortal


Apr 6 2009, 1:25pm

Post #25 of 29 (615 views)
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okay [In reply to] Can't Post

This is a different table that's shown in the gallery photos. That one is long, rectangular and appears to seat 6 (one at each end and two along each sides).


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