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**An Unexpected Party** - 6. “Tell me what you want done, and I will try it, if I have to fight the wild Were-worms in the Last Desert.”
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batik
Tol Eressea


Mar 28 2009, 5:56pm

Post #26 of 59 (3230 views)
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pop-guns?!?! [In reply to] Can't Post

Seemed out of place to me too and a good enough *catch* to look more into this...
Apparently 'popguns' (no hyphen) have been around since the Middle Ages (searched "pop-gun" to come up with that bit of info!).


Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Mar 28 2009, 6:10pm

Post #27 of 59 (3247 views)
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In this article, it's categorized as a musical instrument: [In reply to] Can't Post

link (scroll down to #413, the "plosive aerophone"). Sounds like something that could come from Dale.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



sevilodorf
Tol Eressea


Mar 28 2009, 6:15pm

Post #28 of 59 (3228 views)
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etymology of the word [In reply to] Can't Post

dates it back to 1622 .... or alternately back to 1440
http://books.google.com/...snum=1&ct=result

Fourth Age Adventures at the Inn of the Burping Troll http://burpingtroll.com





Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Mar 28 2009, 6:25pm

Post #29 of 59 (3234 views)
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*scurries to basement to check OED* [In reply to] Can't Post

*steps in cat poop with bare feet, swears, yells at cat, cleans up poop, mucks out litter box, washes hands and feet*

Yep, they have the 1622 citation. Whew!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



batik
Tol Eressea


Mar 28 2009, 6:35pm

Post #30 of 59 (3227 views)
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That figures...and it's fascinating... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd have to give up my day job the really *study* all the real or imagined connections with Tolkien's texts, I suppose.
So did Finarfin have a dog or donate to Animal Rescue Foundation? (no but his wife's father's brother had a daughter who was friends with a 'great dog'!)


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Mar 28 2009, 7:04pm

Post #31 of 59 (3219 views)
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Dogged determination! [In reply to] Can't Post

What a great genealogical connection! Laugh


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915


Dreamdeer
Valinor


Mar 29 2009, 1:14am

Post #32 of 59 (3205 views)
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*choke!* *snork!* *snicker!* // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!


squire
Half-elven


Mar 29 2009, 2:18am

Post #33 of 59 (3241 views)
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Brilliant! brilliant! [In reply to] Can't Post

What a great response, so full of insights! Thank you! Beautfiul stuff on the dwarves' weakness and comic natures, and also on the vaudevillian nature of the story.

I do think when Bilbo falls face down and flat out on the floor, crying out in terror, that it transcends comedy and becomes alarming - commensurate with the darkness of the dwarves' song and mood at that point in the story.

I also don't think you can reasonably argue that there might be an express train to Bywater in the world of The Hobbit "for all we know." We actually do know enough to say that the hobbits do not have steam technology and the associated proto-industrial economy.

The "drunk Bilbo" theory is appealing; however I believe something like that must be left to Tolkien to tell us. Like sex, intoxication is not something he leaves to chance. Since he never mentions the idea that Bilbo (or the dwarves) are under the influence, I stick to emotional explanations for irrational or exuberant behavior in this scene.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


squire
Half-elven


Mar 29 2009, 2:24am

Post #34 of 59 (3208 views)
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"Sometimes these meandering words would actually capture a straggling thought..." [In reply to] Can't Post

Very funny! I have always wanted to know more about McAdoo, who built the H&M underwater tubes between New Jersey and New York (now the PATH trains) and became Woodrow Wilson's Secretary of the Treasury, marrying his daughter in the bargain, and then went on to lose the Democratic presidential nomination in 1924 due to a deadlock with the South over the KKK.

In other words, he is one of America's "second-best" statesmen, inevitably lost to a history that remembers only presidents. This quote you found is just hilarious, and says so much about him, and about Harding. Thanks!



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


Dreamdeer
Valinor


Mar 29 2009, 2:57am

Post #35 of 59 (3210 views)
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Ah, but Tolkien always does that! [In reply to] Can't Post

Tolkien always leaves indiscreet details to implication rather than bald statement. Even when he shows elves passing out over wine he only refers to them as "sleepy". And after Bilbo's glorious eleventy-first birthday, he describes gardeners coming by appointment with wheelbarrows to take home those who had "inadvertantly remained behind"--but call them drunk point blank? Oh no, that just wouldn't do!

Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!


Curious
Half-elven


Mar 29 2009, 8:57am

Post #36 of 59 (3221 views)
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Bilbo's dark psyche. [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
He cannot become a better person until he ventures, for a little while, into worse. It is as though he had accidentally thrown a great treasure into a rubbish heap, and cannot now reclaim it without getting dirty. Mind you, this is by no means doctrinally correct in the context of Tolkien's religion, but it is psychologically true.


I don't know if Bilbo actually does anything wicked, but long ago I suggested that Gollum represents the monster lurking in Bilbo's dark psyche. On the other hand, I think one of Tolkien's themes in The Hobbit is that the rules Bilbo has obeyed for 51 years are not the same as a moral code, and that a Trickster or Burglar may be more virtuous than, say, a rule-abiding and rule-making Elvenking, Master of Lake-town, or new King under the Mountain.

I can see parallels to this in the Gospels, where Jesus upsets all the authorities with his defiance of social conventions, to the point where he is executed as a criminal. And Jesus, too, before he faces his ultimate test, faces temptation from Satan, perhaps representing the monster lurking in his dark psyche, even though they didn't use those terms in the Bible.

It's more difficult to see parallels in established religions, because, after all, established religions have their own sets of rules, many of which are unwritten conventions, and do not encourage members to break those rules. But as an English Catholic, Tolkien was not a part of the country's established religion, and so may have felt that he was breaking the social conventions of his community by practicing his religion.



(This post was edited by Curious on Mar 29 2009, 8:59am)


Curious
Half-elven


Mar 29 2009, 9:04am

Post #37 of 59 (3218 views)
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Actually, I borrowed that idea [In reply to] Can't Post

from squire.


sador
Half-elven

Mar 29 2009, 9:18am

Post #38 of 59 (3192 views)
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A few answers, some to the point [In reply to] Can't Post

A. Anyway, that’s my theory. What’s yours, starting from Thorin’s speech?
I don't know. As others have said before, longwinded speeches are not unique to modern times.

B. Is this a nod to vaudeville – a popular style of stage entertainment in The Hobbit’s era?
Possibly.

Does anyone really open their mouth to express surprise, and move it to make sounds, without succeeding?
Not that I remember; but it doesn't sound very unlikely.

Or does this stock gesture simply present for an audience the emotion that underlies speechlessness under stress?
As others mentioned it happens often, I see no reason to think so.

C. Is this an “anachronism”???? I dare you to call it a “translation” and suggest what the original written phrase was that the translator chose to render in railroad terms, because the original was unsuitable for a modern audience to understand. Be specific.
I think the narrator makes it clear that The Hobbit, at least, is more than a translation. LotR is a different story - but it was written at least with some regard to such a conceit. The Hobbit wasn't - not untli Tolkien came up with the ingenious idea of explaining away the two version 'of Riddles in the Dark'!

D. Is this an image of shell shock taken from Tolkien’s WW I days?
For Tolkien himself - possibly.


E. Why “struck by lightning”?
It could be that was what someone neat Tolkien in the trenches said, in a case of shock.
Within Middle-earth - Bilbo is said to have remembered the Fell Winter of 1311. Lightning might have been a personal trauma.

F. What drink? Alcoholic or not?
I'm sure Balin thought of giving him tea!
But I suppose it was brandy, the universal remedy; unless Curious is right, and Bilbo was intoxicated already. After having lost his appetite before, he might have been drinking more than usual, with less than usual food - it is possible.

G. Hmmm…. What do you think?
I don't know why, but I never quite liked it.

H. Who called England a “nation of shopkeepers”?
I see Curious has already looked it up.

Is this a reference to that image, which the English adopted with defiant English pride?
Probably; but "grocer" sounds quite low.

I. As foolhardy as this sounds, is it wounded pride alone that is speaking?
It's the brandy.

Or is Bilbo really interested in an adventure?
Drunks often are - which accounts for pub brawls.
Arguably, had he drunk enough before - he would have assualted Dwalin when he first appeared, pushed him bodily out of the door, and after sobering up in the morning would have gone to live happily ever after.

Well, as much as I like Curious' theory, you're right that it's unprovable. Assuming Bilbo was just excited, it could be the the train of thought (ha ha) which led him to remember the old Bullroarer - probably the only tale of "trouble with goblins" he heard in detail before today! And that tale also sounded like fun.

“The Took side had won”: does that refer to a defense of “dignity” or a desire actually to walk to the “East of East”?
I think it's the dignity. Think back to all the Old Took's birthdays and similar gatherings, when he was looked down at as "the grocer's son".

J. Is a treasure hunter really the same as a burglar?
Well yes, how else does one win a treasure? By putting a Y-shaped stick in the hands of an albino? One should be either burglar, or robber, or both.
But "expert treasure hunter" sounds better. Tolkien was ahead of his time - and anticipated the whitewashing of unpleasant terms.

I'm sure the dwarves loved encountering someone vertically challanged even more than themselves.

Would a burglar/treasure hunter necessarily request “plenty of Excitement” along with a reward?
I suppose so; there's a thrill in burgling.

In the modern genre of the heist film, the expert burglar is determined to avoid excitement – always in vain, to be sure.
Well, I do not know heist films. But I'm sure what excites the burglar is not identical to what excites the audience!

K. When Bilbo shuts his mouth “with a snap” under Gandalf’s glare, is that an example of Gandalf’s wizardry?
Of his authority, rather. I wish I had this kind of authority! It would help a lot with the children.

L. Why does Gandalf feel he has a right to be angry at the dwarves’ suspicion of the hobbit, when Gandalf himself admits Bilbo shows no signs yet of being right for the job?
Because he realises the hobbit is failing badly. Gandalf is venting his frustration on Gloin.

"Let us join the throng!" - Kili


Curious
Half-elven


Mar 29 2009, 10:15am

Post #39 of 59 (3194 views)
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Thanks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Blush That's not a cookie, that's a whole cake! Wow.

I wouldn't call the dwarves' song or Bilbo's reaction to it dark, and indeed I find Bilbo's reaction to being called a fellow conspirator downright silly, but that's my subjective reaction, and I can't argue with yours.

The better argument, I acknowledge, is that the narrator is cleary part of the Primary World, including trains and such, and that this is his aside to the reader. Trains are not quiet, and are probably not found in a quieter time of the world. Although they were found in the English countryside of Tolkien's childhood.

I think Tolkien does not consider trains necessarily a part of urban England like factories, and find them a natural reference when speaking of the Shire. They may not exist in the Shire, but they come to Tolkien's mind when Tolkien speaks of the Shire in both The Hobbit and LotR.

I like the idea that Tolkien may be implying that Bilbo is drunk without explicitly saying so to the children in the audience, but I must admit this is the first time I have thought about it, so it's a pretty subtle reference, and perhaps one I am inferring, rather than one Tolkien is implying. Let's call it a UUT.


(This post was edited by Curious on Mar 29 2009, 10:16am)


Morthoron
Gondor


Mar 29 2009, 11:21am

Post #40 of 59 (3187 views)
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Tolkien wasn't thinking of McAdoo and Harding... [In reply to] Can't Post

when he presented Thorin as bombastic, but the sentiment applies. I am sure there were many Oxford dinners where a fustian don spoke overlong before the first course. But having read several histories of British Parliament, I would say Thorin's monologue could be based on the manner of one of several MP's, particularly that of Gladstone, whose orotund speeches irritated both friend and enemy alike. Benjamin D'israeli, ever Gladstone's nemesis, once delivered a withering speech in the House of Commons that was a perfect parody of Gladstone:

"A sophistical rhetorician, enebriated with the exuberance of his own verbosity, and gifted with an egotistical imagination, that can at all times command an interminable and inconsistent series of arguments, malign an opponent and glorify himself."

Read the ongoing serialization of MONTY PYTHON'S 'The HOBBIT', found here:
http://www.fanfiction.net/...y_Pythons_The_Hobbit


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Mar 29 2009, 5:46pm

Post #41 of 59 (3179 views)
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Ah, that post! [In reply to] Can't Post

I recall it now!

There's something about reading Tolkien, which puts one in a philological mood...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915


squire
Half-elven


Mar 29 2009, 6:30pm

Post #42 of 59 (3188 views)
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'He speaks to me as if I were a public meeting' [In reply to] Can't Post

That is how Queen Victoria characterized Gladstone. She did not like his priggish self-righteousness. She may have been comparing him to Disraeli, a political novelist of disreputable charm - who wasn't afraid to use it on the queen. He famously said, "We all love flattery, and where royalty is concerned, you should lay it on with a trowel.”

Another contemporary said of Gladstone, that "while he had no objection to Gladstone's habit of concealing the ace of trumps up his sleeve, he did object to his reiterated claim that it had been put there by Almighty God."



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


(This post was edited by squire on Mar 29 2009, 6:31pm)


Curious
Half-elven


Mar 30 2009, 6:09am

Post #43 of 59 (3162 views)
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Good points!// [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Dreamdeer
Valinor


Mar 30 2009, 4:28pm

Post #44 of 59 (3193 views)
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You said it better than I. [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, that's what I mean. Bilbo has invested al of his virtue-seeking in a false-set of values, so part of retraining himself is taking on this absolutely taboo title of "Burglar". He doesn't do anything really wicked, but just as he had become enamored of a (superficial) good reputation, so he has to accept a label with a (superficial) bad reputation

Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!


Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Mar 30 2009, 4:59pm

Post #45 of 59 (3155 views)
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Uncle Baggins wants to know more about those steam trains. [In reply to] Can't Post

Are rthey really working freight or passenger trains, or are they tourist trains? We have some steam trains here, but just for the tourists.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Darkstone
Immortal


Mar 30 2009, 5:50pm

Post #46 of 59 (3189 views)
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"I am Bilbo! And Bilbo means....er...." [In reply to] Can't Post

Reincarnation doesn't help you if in your next incarnation you still don't know who you are.
-Eckhart Tolle


A. Anyway, that’s my theory. What’s yours, starting from Thorin’s speech?

Just the opposite. It seems really archaic, like the long speeches out of Beowulf or The Odyssey where halfway through you go “Now exactly what the heck is this guy talking about?”


B. Is this a nod to vaudeville – a popular style of stage entertainment in The Hobbit’s era?

In Britain it would be called “Music Hall” rather than “Vaudeville”.


Does anyone really open their mouth to express surprise, and move it to make sounds, without succeeding?

Bilbo is literally struck dumb.


Or does this stock gesture simply present for an audience the emotion that underlies speechlessness under stress?

Lots of people were struck dumb in The Illiad. Even a god or two. I guess one can argue ancient Greek literature was the basis of vaudeville.


Bilbo does finally express (ha ha) himself: he shrieks! In fact, the image is a familiar one to later readers of The Lord of the Rings: “it burst out like the whistle of an engine coming out of a tunnel.” Familiar, because it is a reference to railroad trains, like the express train at the Long-expected Party. Such trains were a basic fact of life to a 1930s audience, but hardly part of a world “long ago” when things were quieter, etc.

We will honor our elders in discussion, by drawing a stock question from the FotR Chapter 1 discussion:

C. Is this an “anachronism”????


Yes, and no.


I dare you to call it a “translation” and suggest what the original written phrase was that the translator chose to render in railroad terms, because the original was unsuitable for a modern audience to understand. Be specific.

An “engine” is not anachronistic. Indeed, engines such capstans, windlasses, and treadmills existed in ancient times.

Similarly whistles and tunnels existed in ancient times as well.

So, say, an engine coming out of a tunnel could be a barge winching itself out of a canal tunnel, the pilot blowing a whistle to signal that the tunnel was being cleared.

Or it could be a mining elevator winching itself up out of a well, and again the pilot blowing a whistle to give notice of the miners coming up from below.

Interestingly the image of the self winching engine (canal barge) would be familiar in pre-Industrial England, which would be apt in Hobbit culture. And also the image of the self winching engine (elevator) would be familiar in any mine, which would fit the Dwarven culture.

A brilliant non-anachronistic anachronism! Surely only Tolkien has the word-hoard to come up with such!


Bilbo has a bit of a nervous breakdown. He quakes “like a jelly that was melting” (what does that mean)

That’s how you make jelly glaze. Goes great on ham.

But more likely is the gruesome connotation of a jellyfish stranded in the sun. English kids would probably be very familiar with the reference from seaside holidays.


… and then falls “flat on the floor … calling out ‘struck by lightning, struck by lightning!’”

D. Is this an image of shell shock taken from Tolkien’s WW I days?


No doubt they’ll soon get well; the shock and strain
Have caused their stammering, disconnected talk.
Of course they’re ‘longing to go out again,’—
These boys with old, scared faces, learning to walk.
They’ll soon forget their haunted nights; their cowed
Subjection to the ghosts of friends who died,—
Their dreams that drip with murder; and they’ll be proud
Of glorious war that shatter’d all their pride…
Men who went out to battle, grim and glad;
Children, with eyes that hate you, broken and mad.
-Siegfried Sassoon, “Survivors” (1917)


E. Why “struck by lightning”?

A bit of foreshadowing:

“’This won't do at all!’ said Thorin, ‘If we don't get blown off or drowned, or struck by lightning, we shall be picked up by some giant and kicked sky-high for a football.’"


They take Bilbo away and put him in a kind of sanitarium: the sofa in the drawing room, with “a drink at his elbow”.

F. What drink?


Doubtless a Southfarthing wine, probably the same red wine Gandalf and Thorin were drinking.


Alcoholic or not?

Definitely alcoholic.


Gandalf is obviously mortified, and tries to make the best of it: “excitable little fellow…gets funny queer fits…but as fierce as a dragon in a pinch.” This leads to a comic little injection, somehow getting to the story of the hobbit Bullroarer Took, who was large enough to ride a horse and fight goblins at some (legendary?) battle. He knocked off the head of the goblin king, Golfimbul, which flew 100 yards through the air and went down a rabbit hole. In a phrase beloved to generations of Tolkien fans, thus “the battle was won and the game of Golf invented at the same moment.”

G. Hmmm…. What do you think?


It’s a jingoistic joke. Like with how in Star Trek-TOS (Season Three) Ensign Chekov claims the Russians invented everything. Similarly just about every west European nation seems to have claimed to invented golf: Scots, English, French, Dutch, Belgian, etc.

Again, here is evidence that the narrator might not be totally objective, and might lean a bit sympathetically towards the hobbit POV.


H. Who called England a “nation of shopkeepers”?

"To found a great empire for the sole purpose of raising up a people of customers may at first sight appear a project fit only for a nation of shopkeepers. It is, however, a project altogether unfit for a nation of shopkeepers; but extremely fit for a nation whose government is influenced by shopkeepers."
-Adam Smith, “The Wealth of Nations”


Is this a reference to that image, which the English adopted with defiant English pride?

Supposedly Napoleon Bonaparte said it. But the evidence suggests that it is more likely that it was the English press that said Napoleon Bonaparte said it. Like how everyone knows that Marie Antoinette said “Let them eat cake” but she didn’t.


Bilbo has recovered, and overhears this last insulting exchange. Now comes a moment that I have argued is one of the core moments of the book, and is certainly the core of this chapter. His Took side, briefly in charge during the music in the dark, is back again, and takes over completely. He steps forward. He denies knowing anything about any of the business at hand, and suggests that they have indeed come to the wrong address. Nevertheless, as a matter of wounded pride, he will do whatever they have in mind for him: “Tell me what you want done, and I will try it, if I have to walk from here to the East of East and fight the wild Were-worms in the Last Desert.”

I. As foolhardy as this sounds, is it wounded pride alone that is speaking?


It’s just as likely that the predictable stolid conservative hobbit side took over. Proper bourgeoisie etiquette is concerned more with outward appearances than with reality. It’s all about what the neighbors think. And the present neighbors happen to be Dwarves. How he appears to the Dwarves seems to have become very important now. Doubtless if this were thirteen hobbits looking disapprovingly at him Bilbo would be saying the exact opposite. Whatever would be socially expected.

Tragically, Europe lost a whole generation for the exact same reason.


Or is Bilbo really interested in an adventure?

Not really.


“The Took side had won”: does that refer to a defense of “dignity” or a desire actually to walk to the “East of East”?

A defense of hobbitry.



The dwarves remain dubious. They do defend their thronging of Bilbo’s hole: the mark of a “Burglar” or “Expert Treasure Hunter” was definitely on the door.

J. Is a treasure hunter really the same as a burglar?


It depends on the ownership of the treasure.


Would a burglar/treasure hunter necessarily request “plenty of Excitement” along with a reward?

It depends why he became a burglar. See Robert Bresson’s Pickpocket (1959).


In the modern genre of the heist film, the expert burglar is determined to avoid excitement – always in vain, to be sure.

But usually they’re still in it for the adrenaline rush. In any challenging job excitement will come whether the heist comes off without a hitch or not.

It’s like how good mercenaries are addicted to combat but don’t actually want to get maimed or killed.


K. When Bilbo shuts his mouth “with a snap” under Gandalf’s glare, is that an example of Gandalf’s wizardry?

More like Gandalf’s intimidation-ry.


L. Why does Gandalf feel he has a right to be angry at the dwarves’ suspicion of the hobbit, when Gandalf himself admits Bilbo shows no signs yet of being right for the job?

Read Eckhart Tolle’s The Power Of Now. He notes when anyone’s opinion is challenged the Ego will kick in and virtually defend the opinion to the death no matter how untenuous it becomes. I’m impressed because his theories explain a lot about the internet in general and forums in particular.

And indeed Gandalf has a very strong Ego; “I am Gandalf, and Gandalf means me!”

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



White Gull
Lorien


Apr 1 2009, 7:14pm

Post #47 of 59 (3143 views)
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I remember that! [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Poetry has been to me an exceeding great reward; it has soothed my affliction; it has multiplied and refined my enjoyments; it has endeared my solitude; it has given me the habit of wishing to discover the Good and Beautiful in all that meets and surrounds me.
-Samuel Taylor Coleridge

White Gull's Fanfic


Dreamdeer
Valinor


Apr 1 2009, 7:21pm

Post #48 of 59 (3154 views)
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What's a Wild Were-Worm? [In reply to] Can't Post

They certainly sound interesting! And I'd certainly hate to try and say that after a tot of brandy!

Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!


Curious
Half-elven


Apr 1 2009, 8:04pm

Post #49 of 59 (3139 views)
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I remember you! [In reply to] Can't Post

Just kidding. Smile


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Apr 1 2009, 8:46pm

Post #50 of 59 (3158 views)
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It was originally [In reply to] Can't Post

the "Wild Wireworms of the Chinese"!

A little too close to our world, I think...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915

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