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Draupne
Forum Admin / Moderator

Mar 12 2009, 5:46pm

Post #126 of 202 (1130 views)
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I always thought [In reply to] Can't Post

that the number of comments would increase exponentially with the degree of "off-topicness"?


Draupne
Forum Admin / Moderator

Mar 12 2009, 5:47pm

Post #127 of 202 (1138 views)
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Det håper jeg da endelig ikke [In reply to] Can't Post

siden vi ikke tenker av folk på norsk, men på dem ;-)


Draupne
Forum Admin / Moderator

Mar 12 2009, 5:49pm

Post #128 of 202 (1121 views)
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You shouldn't [In reply to] Can't Post

say too much about the target co-ordinates, we don't want them to know when they're about to be attacked by killer ninja elephants.


Dreamdeer
Valinor


Mar 12 2009, 5:50pm

Post #129 of 202 (1141 views)
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Ooh! I got mentioned! [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile And I'm just a newbie, and one notoriously lacking a college degree, at that! Thank you for making my day! Cool

Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Mar 12 2009, 5:52pm

Post #130 of 202 (1198 views)
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That was neither too long nor too personal. [In reply to] Can't Post

It is a lot to think about, so for the moment all I can say is thank you for sharing those thoughts with us.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!

Join us Mar. 9-15 for Languages, Peoples, and Translation.
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
How to find old Reading Room discussions.


GaladrielTX
Tol Eressea


Mar 12 2009, 5:56pm

Post #131 of 202 (1170 views)
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Oh, Draupne, that is hiliarious! [In reply to] Can't Post

I wish you would make such a post some Monday. I'd love to find out what I did on Friday night!

~~~~~~~~

The TORNsib formerly known as Galadriel.



N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Mar 12 2009, 5:56pm

Post #132 of 202 (1180 views)
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Thanks for another thorough explanation. [In reply to] Can't Post

We may be at an impasse -- it may not be possible to satisfy everyone's preference as to the content of the Reading Room, but you've given everyone much to consider. I think that at least matters of tone can be addressed.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!

Join us Mar. 9-15 for Languages, Peoples, and Translation.
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
How to find old Reading Room discussions.


Ufthak
Rivendell


Mar 12 2009, 5:59pm

Post #133 of 202 (1178 views)
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Ah, now I remember you [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I will try to find a good recording of Kumbaya for you. Smile


You're the one whose first response to my post in the introductions thread was a trollish rant, aren't you? Good to see I made such a lasting impression that your response to a declaration of offence at a point is a snide remark rather than an inquiry as to why and how you caused offence to a fellow member of the forum.

My point was that by saying 'especially men', you are damaging both genders. For one, it suggests that trollish behaviour from men is more understandable, as they are apparently more likely to have these feelings/desires/tendencies, and I think that sort of attitude discourages people from taking responsibility for their own actions. And for another thing, it suggests that female internet users conform to the traditional female stereotype of quiet, demure and polite, and thereby implying that those females that DO troll obviously are far more deviant from their 'norm' than their male counterparts.

Finally: This is a forum, a community. This isn't World of Warcraft. You cannot 'level up'. If you want to be an admin, fine, I'm sure the request will be noted. If there's no need for new admins, you will not be an admin. If there is a need for new admins, maybe you will be. This isn't a case of "it's my turn now". If the admins are not doing their job, mention it. Bring it up. You can't just say "the admins MIGHT NOT BE doing their job because of this". They either are of they aren't.

"Who the hell are you?" he growled.
"I the hell am Harry," I said.
He pulled out his own gym bag and slammed the car door closed. "You always a wiseass?"
"No. Sometimes I'm asleep."

-Harry Dresden, 'Blood Rites', A Novel of The Dresden Files
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Basically, I'm the TORn equivalent of Hulk Hogan. I don't do anyone any favours by reappearing now and then to the apparent adulation of the uneducated masses and doing something shamelessly self-centred, but I'm somehow largely tolerated nonetheless and my reputation is rather more impressive than any actual contribution I have made."

-Me

(This post was edited by Altaira on Mar 13 2009, 2:29am)


orcbane
Gondor


Mar 12 2009, 6:05pm

Post #134 of 202 (1153 views)
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If the troll emerges [In reply to] Can't Post

I have recieved no supporting comments on the Moderator idea, so it is practically a dead horse. But I have been considering the Moderator aspect more fully and have at least one more thought to share on the subject. More is simmering in the brain, but that will have to wait for some other time perhaps. But this has moved essentially into a curiousity about Mod/Forum dynamics, on my part. Your response tells me you are a good Mod, and your 'usefullness' really has never been in doubt. Keep your Light-Saber, but keep it charged, and behead me quick if I ever trully run amok.

Modern forum Moderation is still a relatively new thing and the effects of the moderators themselves on the forum, is to my mind not very well known. We know some things, certainly, but not all, and particularly the long term effects. One thing I have been considering in particular, is what happens when the upwards movement potential stops ? In the beginning most discussion forums do recruit regular members up from the ranks, so to speak. But in the forums that do survive, at least the few I have participated in, it eventually solidifies. And what would happen if Moderation was for a term, and then it was back to being a regular member again. Do not call it 'Retirement' but Moderator Recycling. Laugh

...




Dreamdeer
Valinor


Mar 12 2009, 6:19pm

Post #135 of 202 (1140 views)
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Bless your heart! [In reply to] Can't Post

First of all, I am very moved by your kind words! I think that you have valuable things to say, and I would welcome more of your perspective in the Reading Room.

You have given me something to think about. At first, when I heard the complaint voiced here, that someone comes along and answers questions too thoroughly, leaving nothing else for anyone to say, I flashed back to third grade, when kids criticized me for using too many "big words", giving me a helacious stuttering problem. I wondered if I did wrong to answer too thoroughly, and if so, where could I go when long and detailed answers swell up in my brain and threaten to burst my skull if I don't let them out? But your words here clarified something for me: It's not the answers that are the problem, but the questions. Maybe we're asking too many questions that can have only one winner, one definitive answer, and once the discussion arrives at that answer, it ends.

I fully intend to feature open-ended questions in the future. I would welcome your participation--surely I can't be the only intuitive in the group! As a matter of fact, Tolkien himself seems very much an intuitive kind of guy, and I would think that his work would appeal to a lot of us, draw us out of the woodwork to find each other. Maybe the RR needs more of us to balance out the perspective.

I used to attend regular poetry gatherings, consisting almost entirely of white people. The leader had no bigotry in him, and often invited poets of color to attend. Most of them would come once, look around at the sea of white faces, decide that they didn't want to be a "token", and not come back. This used to frustrate me no end--if they'd have all stuck around, we could have achieved a quorem! Perhaps we intuitives need to consider this, as well, and not just banish ourselves to the ghetto, so to speak, merely because we're 4%. Hey, we're the 4% that keeps things spicy!

Regarding the sensitivity, it shouldn't have to be an issue. We can make things kinder at the RR. I admit that I've gotten my dander up a few times, myself. I will be more of a lady; every one of us who sets a good example improves more than just our own behavior.

Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!


Dreamdeer
Valinor


Mar 12 2009, 6:21pm

Post #136 of 202 (1148 views)
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What would you do? [In reply to] Can't Post

What would you do if you could regularly post "What would you do?" types of questions? I would love that!

Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!


orcbane
Gondor


Mar 12 2009, 6:22pm

Post #137 of 202 (1181 views)
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I was only responding to the trollish rant [In reply to] Can't Post

of the one mouthing off in front of me. I think that was my second post Laugh




(This post was edited by Altaira on Mar 13 2009, 2:30am)


Ufthak
Rivendell


Mar 12 2009, 6:28pm

Post #138 of 202 (1141 views)
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So i see [In reply to] Can't Post

you have forgotten about your subsequent post (I think) and private message (of which I am certain, because I still have it), apologising for your attitude? Interesting revisionist history you have going on there.

Let me know if and when you wish to address my point about damaging gender stereotyping.

"Who the hell are you?" he growled.
"I the hell am Harry," I said.
He pulled out his own gym bag and slammed the car door closed. "You always a wiseass?"
"No. Sometimes I'm asleep."

-Harry Dresden, 'Blood Rites', A Novel of The Dresden Files
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Basically, I'm the TORn equivalent of Hulk Hogan. I don't do anyone any favours by reappearing now and then to the apparent adulation of the uneducated masses and doing something shamelessly self-centred, but I'm somehow largely tolerated nonetheless and my reputation is rather more impressive than any actual contribution I have made."

-Me

(This post was edited by Ufthak on Mar 12 2009, 6:28pm)


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Mar 12 2009, 6:29pm

Post #139 of 202 (1162 views)
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Heck yes we get terretorial about our weekly threads [In reply to] Can't Post

Just speaking for the two threads I'm responsible for, Screencap of the Day and the Did You Ever Notice costume threads, I've put a lot of time and energy into both discussions. When SCOD first began it's run on the new boards, I had to fight tooth and nail to get new discussion leaders some weeks or looking for backups when someone has to drop out. I've been on the verge of letting it die off a few times, but always the volunteers come back. And I've put, quite literally, hours of time researching, gathering, and resizing pictures for my Did You Ever Notice threads.

My point is that some of us have invested quite a lot of energy into our discussions. And while I would not mind if someone wanted to post a random screencap and ask questions about it, I would mind if they started a brand new Screencap of the Day discussion on top of mine.

I don't know if that's right or wrong. I'll leave the judgements on that to someone not as involved as myself. I'm just adding some more data.



My LiveJournal
My Costuming Site
TORn's Costume Discussions Archive
The Screencap of the Day Schedule for February


Dreamdeer
Valinor


Mar 12 2009, 6:33pm

Post #140 of 202 (1104 views)
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ummm... [In reply to] Can't Post

...isn't calling someone an idiot in the name of denouncing trollery sort of counterproductive? Don't you want to be better than what angers you?

Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Mar 12 2009, 6:40pm

Post #141 of 202 (1140 views)
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Speaking as an ex internet troll... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Male and female trolls simply have different styles. (Male troll: "Bow to my dominant wisdom or I shall pulp you with my club!" Female troll: "How nice that you could come, and isn't that a darling retro dress--you must be so brave to not fear emphasizing your tummy like that...I can see that you like your own cooking, my dear!") But I do agree that we all have an inner troll, and that every so often we need to check and see that the leash still holds.


I've met just as many female as male ex-trolls. And I try to keep mine on a very strong leash these days, even if her loudest roars still creep through now and again.



My LiveJournal
My Costuming Site
TORn's Costume Discussions Archive
The Screencap of the Day Schedule for February


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


Mar 12 2009, 7:05pm

Post #142 of 202 (1129 views)
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Some of the female trolls I've encountered had three heads! [In reply to] Can't Post

Regular posters with sock puppets in another fandom. I really enjoyed delivering a most effective killing-with-kindness snarky yet polite smackdown on one particular multi-headed troll biotch. Got a virtual standing ovation, too. =)


Magpie
Immortal


Mar 12 2009, 7:08pm

Post #143 of 202 (1125 views)
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and yours [In reply to] Can't Post

Sometimes, I feel as if I speak a foreign language only 4% of the population understands. People outside that population either love me in spite of not understanding most of what I'm on about... or they roll their eyes in extreme frustration. It feels so good when I feel like someone does understand my language. Thanks so much for your response.

I'm also known for long posts. So much so I took to calling myself an Ent.
And please know that, in a wonderfully serendipitous moment, a poster at another forum wrote this today when I answered an ambiguous question about the soundtrack with 185 words (in four paragraphs):
Wow, ignore that fool magpie above me with his/her long winded nonsense.
To answer your question:
Evenstar, by Enya
I might note that that answer is partially wrong. Enya did not sing Evenstar. And even if they'd gotten the artist right, the answer could only be right if they had correctly assumed which scene and which part of that scene the original poster was referring to. I did not assume and gave the person three possibilities it could be with info on how to determine which was which.
I love long responses in a discussion. I encouraged them. I was known for officially declaring a discussion an Entmoot when people started worrying they were going on too long.

I think you've hit the nail on the head when you said, "
It's not the answers that are the problem, but the questions. Maybe we're asking too many questions that can have only one winner, one definitive answer, and once the discussion arrives at that answer, it ends. "

(This puts me in mind of a book I once explored at a university weekend retreat: Women's Ways of Knowing. It talks about how people have different ways of perceiving knowledge and truth.)

It bears saying that I'm also interested in facts that can be answered definitely and I appreciate those people who are great at answering them because they have read it all and retained it all. And I'm all about being able to effectively express yourself and back up why you think the way you do (which is not necessarily the same as 'proving' or 'testing') But I'm not sure those who are more fact and knowledge based always appreciate that those of us who aren't drawn to facts and definitive answers aren't discussing in open ended, vague ways because we *lack* knowledge. We just have a different agenda. And I think any 'correction' or 'disagreement' can be presented in one of two ways: to encourage continued discussion or to effectively shut down discussion. There is a difference in how each is conveyed.

This may also be the point at which I express myself a little more clearly than I did in my previous point. My feelings don't get hurt when someone disagrees with me. My feelings get hurt when someone does it in an aggressive, patronizing, or dismissive way (and sometimes that hurt gets translated to anger). This is especially so when the comments come from someone I feel is part of my community. Someone I've accepted and hopes accepts me. The comment I quoted above was not from someone in my community and I've learned (over time) to harden myself to those kinds of comments.

On one hand, I want to believe that open discussion with inclusion for all types of approaches can happen here. But it's hard for me to let the guard down. Let me quote from one description of an iNFj:
Counselors can be hard to get to know. They have an unusually rich inner life, but they are reserved and tend not to share their reactions except with those they trust. With their loved ones, certainly, Counselors are not reluctant to express their feelings, their face lighting up with the positive emotions, but darkening like a thunderhead with the negative. Indeed, because of their strong ability to take into themselves the feelings of others, Counselors can be hurt rather easily by those around them, which, perhaps, is one reason why they tend to be private people, mutely withdrawing from human contact.
uh... yeah. That's me.

It's not that I don't think people here aren't capable of accommodating intuitives . It's just that it's been a long road for me in many ways. I often feel that my personality type does a lot more accepting and understanding of other personality types than they do of us. And I can't tell you how many times I've sat at a table full of people looking at me as I've just shared what I think about the issue at hand. The looks tend to run from blank to hun? to 'what kind of weirdo are you?' Sometimes, it just gets tiring. And to be flamed or aggressively (in tone) challenged in connection with Tolkien is heartbreaking to me.

But if I were going to follow anyone into an unfamiliar room, hanging back with apprehension, I think it would be you Dreamdeer.



2009 Tolkien Computer Monitor Calendars
LOTR soundtrack website : FOTR Lyrics Update, Oct 2008
magpie avatar gallery ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Annael
Immortal


Mar 12 2009, 7:32pm

Post #144 of 202 (1117 views)
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that's how I feel [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I'd prefer a free-and-loose discussion that's less about citations and references and more about impressions. Something I did from time to time that I really enjoyed (and wasn't alone in doing) was 'what would you do?' Like, if you were in charge of the defense of Minas Tirith, how would you order it? Or the example in my previous post about what would you suggest be done with the Ring if you were in the Council of Elrond.


At some point it got way too academic for my taste.

I also disliked how certain people dominated each and every discussion, so that it became a discussion between them and everyone else on those aspects that the dominating person wanted to pursue (rather like a teacher dominating a classroom discussion) instead of a relaxed conversation among a bunch of people that could go in a variety of directions. I tried to raise this point several times but apparently no one else minded . . . or those who did, had already left!

I'm an INFJ too, if that's relevant.

What is the knocking?
What is the knocking at the door in the night?
It is somebody wants to do us harm.
No, no, it is the three strange angels.
Let them come in
- DH Lawrence
* * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967

(This post was edited by Annael on Mar 12 2009, 7:33pm)


Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Mar 12 2009, 8:00pm

Post #145 of 202 (1139 views)
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Wow, Magpie. [In reply to] Can't Post

So much of what you said resonates with me. I too find it more interesting to discuss "how it makes me feel".

But it's interesting that when I read that thread (Dreamdeer's RR thread about archetypal criticism) the post that scared me wasn't the one you cited. It was the one that said "is it possible to just enjoy Tolkien without having it meet some deeply hidden need? " The person who posted that makes no bones about the fact that other posters are boring the heck out of that person, and I would find that much more intimidating than all the academic stuff.

Some people like proving points. Some people like discussing how art makes them feel. I like both of those things, and what I like most of all, myself, is finding connections. Hey, doesn't Barad Dur look like the Wicked Witch's castle, and don't the Nazgul remind you of the Winged Monkeys? Stuff like that. I suppose that fits right into the archetypal analysis.

Anyway, I really did find a lot in your post that resonated with me.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Darkstone
Immortal


Mar 12 2009, 8:19pm

Post #146 of 202 (1186 views)
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The Reading Room is serious business. [In reply to] Can't Post

On more than one occasion people have responded to my Reading Room posts with "I do not see how that line of discussion can be of any profit". Seriously. More than once. And from different people!

I just respond with "I'm not posting in here to make a profit."

Professionals and recreation, always a bad combination.

We need more amateurs in the Reading Room.

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



Magpie
Immortal


Mar 12 2009, 8:44pm

Post #147 of 202 (1148 views)
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yeah... I caught that response too [In reply to] Can't Post

It's more than boredom being conveyed. It's a touch of disdain, too.

I run into this a lot in the soundtrack community, too. There are so many musicologists that can discuss things that are all about correct or incorrect. I've fought hard to validate the usefulness of my own understanding of the soundtrack even when it disagrees with official thought. In at least one case, my opinion was shot down by Doug Adams and that comment was brought up more than once by other fans to prove I was wrong. I wonder if Doug remembers that off hand comment he made years ago since the most current published analysis by him agrees with me. But even when I will acquiesce that my thinking is in disagreement with Doug's or Howard's (since Doug is basically representing Howard's thinking), I still maintain that there is some usefulness to an alternative view. (my web page, Howard Shore, Doug Adams, and me: Do I get to disagree with the creator of the score)

Like you, I don't need to prove whether there is any valid literary connection between Oz and Middle-earth. I'm betting it's a very valid discussion to determine if it is or not. But that isn't what interests me. I'm not sure why connections fascinate me so much but they do. I built all of the units of books I read to elementary school students on connections and the more varied I could make those connections, the better. In the end, it's what art tells me about myself and the world that matters to me. Understanding art is all about helping that process along. Understanding art is not the ultimate goal in itself.
I wrote on that page I linked to above:

I've had a few experiences as an educator. One was as a TA for an online class on the Lord of the Rings. My experience there (and in further literary forums) was fascinating. I've encountered hundreds of people exploring and discussing the books--some reading it for the first time, some for the 20th time. Some have only read LOTR, some have read every thing Tolkien wrote on Middle-earth. What I love is each of us has our own personal relationship to the story and that that relationship changes with every new experience we have in life or new idea we encounter in discussion. In the end, what's often most important in any discussion about the book is what it tells us about ourselves. If 8 people engage in a discussion about Denethor, we could easily have 8 different takes on him. And I'm fascinated about what each of those views says about the person expressing them.

I think we all get our own relationship with the soundtracks. Howard Shore is the creator. And I respectfully give him the final say in what is an accurate description of his work. But, on the other hand, any created work -- any form of art -- becomes the possession of the beholder too. It's perhaps important for me to know what the poet intended... but I think it's just as important for me to have my own relationship with the poem. And if my interpretation and use of the poem differs from the poet I say, 'So what?'. It's mine now. I won't argue this view. I won't say I know better than the poet. But I will cherish my own relationship and I won't relinquish it because I'm being told it's wrong.

I explored this thinking more HERE where I said,
A consideration or discussion of a piece of art serves many purposes. Only one is to understand 'the work'. If a group of people sit down to view an unfamiliar work and then discuss what they think of it, all sorts of interesting things can come to light that really have little to do with the artist or even the work. That group might discover more about themselves as individuals, group dynamics, roles each play within the group, cultural paradigms, etc.

The goal is multifold, imo. First, to seek to be educated about as much as one can, from as valid a source as one can. Second, to allow for thoughts other than the 'official line' to exist and be discussed. Third, to understand the difference between the two approaches when forming an opinion, stating a point, or debating an issue. That goes for both 'sides'... that is: people who gravitate towards one approach strongly. If you're all fact based... lighten up sometimes. If you're all personal opinion based... educate yourself. Learn to listen as much as you like to talk. Understand where the other party is coming from and allow for differences in approach.



2009 Tolkien Computer Monitor Calendars
LOTR soundtrack website : FOTR Lyrics Update, Oct 2008
magpie avatar gallery ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Farawyn
Rohan


Mar 12 2009, 8:46pm

Post #148 of 202 (1101 views)
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So... [In reply to] Can't Post

What have we learned?

1) orcbane wants to be a mod because
a) mods should rotate and/or it's his turn (?)
b) the mods overall are doing a good job, but some may not be, but we don't know who?
c) TORn *clearly* needs more mods(??!)

2) The RR is intimidating and
a) that's just the way we like it?
b) if you want it to be more accessible, post something accessible and see who responds(!)
c) the teenagers (or younger posters) are more than holding their own.

3) Cliques/oldbies are rude (trollish) to newbies
a) but we don't know who (?)
b) the mods in question clearly can't control this because trollishness runs amok on TORn (??!)
c) *GLUG* (!)

4) Stickys suck/ Weekly Threads should cease
(a) they should all be removed so we don't have to keep ignoring them !
(b) no one ever posts in these threads. ever.
(c)- ya! can't think of another thing, I'm tired.

*************
Disclaimer: The author of this message does not guarantee correct grammar, spelling or English usage. No responsibility can be accepted for the use of this message as a guide to written English.
**************
Discuss:
Photobucket




Magpie
Immortal


Mar 12 2009, 8:46pm

Post #149 of 202 (1138 views)
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oh Darkstone [In reply to] Can't Post

You make me laugh at all the right times and in all the right ways (well except for that one time...)

There is so much in you I would wish to emulate. I should keep a little "What would Darkstone do?" guide by my computer. :-)


2009 Tolkien Computer Monitor Calendars
LOTR soundtrack website : FOTR Lyrics Update, Oct 2008
magpie avatar gallery ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Ataahua
Forum Admin / Moderator


Mar 12 2009, 8:52pm

Post #150 of 202 (1145 views)
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"There is so much in you I would wish to emulate." [In reply to] Can't Post

I hear his pancreas is worthy of imitation...

Angelic

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories

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