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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
The Numenorean Kingdoms, part XI - bridge-film material?

sador
Valinor

Feb 1 2009, 8:25am


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The Numenorean Kingdoms, part XI - bridge-film material? Can't Post

Now let the fun begin! (Tom Bombadil, ‘The Old Forest’)
Not so long ago, when there was only one movie board, the concept of a bridge-film was taken for granted, and folk were discussing what exactly would it be based on. For instance, Ainurolorin said, in one of the earliest threads in which he promoted his idea for a plot: “Most fans who want to see a bridge film at all (not including those who just want a 6 hour Hobbit) fall into one of two camps. Camp A. wishes and desires to see Gandalf's deeds and the stratagems of The Council versus The Necromancer. Camp B wants an Aragorn love/action fest.
As I answered him there, I have absolutely no idea what most fans want to see; and I’m pretty sure my own preferences would not appeal to the marketing managers of New Line. However, let’s see what material we do have here, and whether it could make anything worth watching.
Ecthelion II, son of Turgon, was a man of wisdom... He encouraged all men of worth from near or far to enter his service, and to those who proved trustworthy he gave rank and reward.
1. Once again, I note the whole section until the end of part iv is in quotation marks. But just think of this opening scene! Can’t you see the sergeant-major passing up and down the line, and a clean-shaven Viggo with shining shoes easing his kitbag when he think’s nobody’s looking?

Anyway, let stop fooling around, and get down to business.
Much is said here of the mysterious Thorongil, of which no true name is given - although I think anyone who hasn’t started with the appendices, took about half a second to realise who he was! Tolkien seems indeed to take it for granted; when he mentions that later many believed Denethor saw through his disguise, he clearly assumes the reader has done so already.
Thorongil is mentioned for two things: his daring exploit against the Corsairs, inwhich he took a fleet to Umbar in a preventive measure, and for his counsles to trust Gandalf rather than Saruman. But after his (first) defeat of the Corsairs, he does not return to Minas Tirith, rather sending Ecthelion this message: “Other tasks now call me, lord, and much time and many perils must pass, ere I come again to Gondor, if that be my fate.
2. In the war against the Corsairs, Thorongil is said to have overthrown himself the Captain of the Havens. How many cases of duels between captains does Tolkien have? How many in LotR?
The ‘other tasks’ seem very interesting, as he last is seen facing the Mountains of Shadow. This brings to ming Aragorn’s words in ‘Strider’, about his knowledge of the Nazgul; I used to think he meant the hunt for Gollum, which in the Council of Elrond: “If one must... or tread the deadly flowers of Morgul Vale, then perils will he find”.
3. Was he going to spy on the Nazgul? Or was this his journey to the far country of Rhun?

Thorongil’s rival is Denethor, the heir to the black stone chair under the throne.
In my opinion (which I am sure few share), Denethor’s is the greatest drama of the years before the War of the Ring. Valiant, kingly, wise, far-sighted, learned in lore – he was placed second to this stranger in the hearts of men and esteem of his father. He becomes an autocrat, refusing counsel in case it might turn him to another’s tool (as he told Gandalf in ‘Minas Tirith’). He marries late, and greatly loves his wife; but she dies after less than a decade. Then he becomes even more grim and silent, and in his pride and strength of will – he dares to use the palantir, faring howeber even better than Saruman in using it – yet his despair increases, and he sees everything as a single combat between Sauron and himself. To which one should add the family drama between him and his sons.
The existing films make such a drama even more called for – since the Denethor John Noble portrayed was far away from such a person, yet gave glimmers of his former greatness (a greatness which was refered to in the commentaries), and it might also give a background to Aragorn’s reluctance to claim the throne.
Whatever. There isn’t a chance my preference will change the coming films. Let’s get back to our own business.
4. I quite dislike this part about Thorongil not trusting Saruman – why should he know better than Gandalf and Elrond?
5. Note that Denethor isn’t too trusting of Saruman either – he is merely stated to mistrust Gandalf, suspecting (truly) that Mithrandir planned to supplant him (note that bith ‘Gandalf’ and ‘Mithrandir’ are used in the same paragraph). What did Denethor think of Saruman?
6. Finduilas “withered in the guarded city, as a flower of the seaward vales set upon a barren rock”. Is the "barren rock" Minas Tirith, or a reference to Denethor himself?

And then we turn to the two sons of the Steward, in which I have a bone to pick with the author of this appendix (Tolkien himself discreetly hides behind quotation marks).
Boromir... beloved by his father, was like him in face and pride, but in little else. Rather he was a man after the sort of king Earnur of old (well, Elros, someone else also thought of the connection you’ve made Wink), taking no wife and delighting chiefly in arms...
Faramir... read the hearts of men as shrewdly as his father, but what he read moved him to pity rather than to scorn. He was gentle in bearing, and a lover of lore and of music, and therefore in those days his courage was judged less than his brother’s...
7. What was so wrong about Boromir not getting married until he was fourty-one? That was still five years younger than his father was!
8. Were do we see that Denethor’s reading other’s hearts moves him to scorn? Why make that assertion?
9. The part about Faramir’s love of music is interesting. Is Tolkien trying to make him elvish?
10. Ever since childhood, “Boromir was the helper and protector of Faramir”. Helper in what? Defender from whom?
11. It did not seem possible to Faramir that any one in Gondor could rival Boromir, Captain of the White Tower; and of like mind was Boromir. Yet it proved otherwise at the test”. Excuse me? What test are we talking about?
Well, every good thing must com to an end. Next, I’ll post a short summary (sadly, I had no time to prepare a proper one, like I did for ‘The Land of Shadow’) and thanking you profusely, take my leave.


"That is a chapter of ancient history which it might be good to recall; for there was sorrow then too, and gathering dark, but great valour, and great deeds that were not wholly vain."
Thus Gandalf. But Elrond was deflating:
"I have seen three ages in the West of the world, and many defeats, and many fruitless victories".

We've reached The Grey Havens last week, but the discussion still goes on!
Join us for appendix A, i-iv - the Numenorean kingdoms.

(This post was edited by sador on Feb 1 2009, 8:26am)

Subject User Time
The Numenorean Kingdoms, part XI - bridge-film material? sador Send a private message to sador Feb 1 2009, 8:25am
    Would LotR be better without the appendices? Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 1 2009, 12:15pm
        A good argument squire Send a private message to squire Feb 1 2009, 2:59pm
            I agree Voronwë_the_Faithful Send a private message to Voronwë_the_Faithful Feb 1 2009, 3:49pm
            Sinister Nazi Tosh. Well two out of three ain't bad! Pryderi Send a private message to Pryderi Feb 1 2009, 9:52pm
                I wouldn't call Ataahua Send a private message to Ataahua Feb 1 2009, 11:35pm
                I wouldn't go so far Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 2 2009, 2:00pm
                    Agreement and Clarification Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 2 2009, 8:45pm
                        The Breelanders are related Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 2 2009, 9:12pm
            And yet, I don't read the appendices a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Feb 2 2009, 11:59am
            Isn't that a backhanded compliment? Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 2 2009, 1:45pm
        Aragorn is not a pure-blooded Númenórean. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Feb 1 2009, 3:41pm
            Isn't it bizarre that Aragorn's mixed blood Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 2 2009, 5:20pm
                Do we know that Aragorn's northern ancestors didn't marry outside the tribe? N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Feb 2 2009, 5:41pm
        Since it's halftime Elros Send a private message to Elros Feb 2 2009, 2:05am
            Would it irk you N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Feb 2 2009, 4:20am
                I guess it depends where... sador Send a private message to sador Feb 2 2009, 7:57am
                    Sorry for jumping the gun. Your Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 2 2009, 2:28pm
                        That's ok, of course sador Send a private message to sador Feb 2 2009, 2:40pm
                            Which is another reason Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 2 2009, 3:00pm
                    Agreement! Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 2 2009, 8:36pm
                I will concede Elros Send a private message to Elros Feb 2 2009, 6:34pm
                    Racism requires progeny. Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 2 2009, 6:53pm
                        Tolkien would be appalled FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Feb 3 2009, 2:28pm
                            But Tolkien also called LotR Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 3 2009, 7:09pm
            No offense taken. Except that you apparently don't like Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 2 2009, 2:12pm
                The E Street Band Elros Send a private message to Elros Feb 2 2009, 6:44pm
                    The only relevance... Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 2 2009, 9:06pm
            The Noldor Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 2 2009, 8:32pm
                Sam is still a brown-skinned hero. Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV Feb 3 2009, 12:13am
                    That's an interesting perspective! // Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 3 2009, 2:01am
                    All men are brothers. Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Feb 3 2009, 6:23pm
                Elros the racist Elros Send a private message to Elros Feb 3 2009, 1:57am
                    The phrase "Drunk as a lord" comes to mind... Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 3 2009, 2:09am
        Not for me. White Gull Send a private message to White Gull Feb 2 2009, 5:32pm
            Now there's an argument I can get behind. Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 2 2009, 5:41pm
            I'll second that! simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Feb 3 2009, 4:33am
                Classism is more Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 3 2009, 1:08pm
                    Classism is a hot button in countries with minorities too :) simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Feb 4 2009, 3:08am
                If I had that attitude... Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 3 2009, 5:16pm
                Cooling down somewhat... Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 3 2009, 5:28pm
                    Actually I've seen it the other way around so we are not that far simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Feb 4 2009, 3:34am
                        The things I read affected me. Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 4 2009, 5:04am
                            This is a whole different story and very sad simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Feb 4 2009, 3:19pm
                                You've never been exposed to Westerns? Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 4 2009, 3:55pm
                                    I was talking about literature simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Feb 4 2009, 4:15pm
                                        I love Grimm's Fairy Tales, just as Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 4 2009, 4:46pm
                                            Justified mentioning of evil things simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Feb 4 2009, 4:55pm
                                                I judge Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 4 2009, 5:15pm
                                                    Ah hm simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Feb 4 2009, 5:37pm
                                                        Regarding children, Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 5 2009, 10:09pm
                                                            Exactly... simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Feb 5 2009, 11:31pm
                                                    Wicked stepmothers Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 4 2009, 6:08pm
                                                        Interesting! Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 5 2009, 10:03pm
                                                            "Grimm's Grimmest"... Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 6 2009, 12:20am
                                                                Thanks for this! I'll buy this book. // simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Feb 6 2009, 2:16am
                                                                Coincidentally FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Feb 6 2009, 7:08pm
                                                                    Everyone has a choice... simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Feb 6 2009, 7:37pm
                                                                        I agree FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Feb 6 2009, 9:56pm
                                                                            Exactly! simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Feb 7 2009, 1:03am
                                                                            Scary Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 7 2009, 2:21am
                                                                    Alexander the Great Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 6 2009, 8:39pm
                                                                        Alexander Jettorex Send a private message to Jettorex Feb 6 2009, 9:28pm
                                                                            Ah, that's "my" guy ;) simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Feb 7 2009, 1:07am
                                                                                Ah, so you are Macedonian? or Bulgarian? Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 7 2009, 3:00am
                                                                                    Both plus some more simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Feb 7 2009, 4:11am
                                                                                your Macedonian? Jettorex Send a private message to Jettorex Feb 7 2009, 3:37am
                                                                                    See my post to Dreamdeer :) // simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Feb 7 2009, 4:19am
                                                                            Alexander had two. Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 7 2009, 2:11am
                                                                                Wander please Jettorex Send a private message to Jettorex Feb 7 2009, 4:24am
                                                                                    Who really killed Phillip? Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 7 2009, 7:30am
                                                                                        the story i heard... Jettorex Send a private message to Jettorex Feb 7 2009, 2:05pm
                                                                                            Yes, that did happen... Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 7 2009, 5:59pm
                                                                                                We're talking about Aragorn, right? Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 7 2009, 7:08pm
                                                                                                    Significant indeed! Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 7 2009, 7:30pm
                                                                                                    Alexander the Northern Star? How does it work? simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Feb 7 2009, 8:31pm
                                                                                                        Just trying to Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 8 2009, 12:10pm
                                                                                                            We study Alexander, not Cyrus, because squire Send a private message to squire Feb 8 2009, 1:19pm
                                                                                                                Is adding to that mythology Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 8 2009, 2:25pm
                                                                                                            I don't know about the education you describe but... simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Feb 8 2009, 4:15pm
                                                                                                                In regards to Tolkien and Greece... Morthoron Send a private message to Morthoron Feb 8 2009, 5:09pm
                                                                                                                    Most probably simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Feb 8 2009, 9:47pm
                                                                                                Bucephalos could have been a big one + some legends simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Feb 7 2009, 8:23pm
                                                                                                    "The poison was water" Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 8 2009, 4:13am
                                                                                                        I can't think of such connection simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Feb 8 2009, 5:01am
                                                                                    I second Dreamdeer on this simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Feb 8 2009, 12:45am
                                                                        People are condemning Alexander? For being a ruthless conqueror? squire Send a private message to squire Feb 6 2009, 10:41pm
                                                                            Alexander first or...? Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 7 2009, 2:44am
                                                                            Gondor! Gondor! (You crossed the border.) // N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Feb 7 2009, 4:46am
                                                                                Huh? oh... squire Send a private message to squire Feb 7 2009, 5:32am
                                                                                    *applause* Nicely done! / Ataahua Send a private message to Ataahua Feb 7 2009, 8:19pm
                                                                I'm opting for the Annotated Grimm's Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 6 2009, 7:37pm
        "All my father's writings have appendices." Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Feb 2 2009, 11:00pm
            Thank you! Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 3 2009, 1:59am
                Kissin' cousins squire Send a private message to squire Feb 3 2009, 2:44am
                    a question for those discussing race/ism... batik Send a private message to batik Feb 3 2009, 3:02am
                        It depends on what you want Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 3 2009, 4:48pm
                            thanks for the input--- batik Send a private message to batik Feb 4 2009, 2:41am
                        Personally I check multiple boxes. Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Feb 3 2009, 5:59pm
                            My grand-daughter writes in "human" sevilodorf Send a private message to sevilodorf Feb 4 2009, 4:29am
                                Dunno if I could get away with that. Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Feb 4 2009, 4:13pm
        I don't read the Appendices, and yet FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Feb 3 2009, 9:33am
            Excellent post// Elros Send a private message to Elros Feb 3 2009, 12:29pm
        "Well-intentioned racialism survives." N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Feb 5 2009, 6:38pm
            I am a troublemaker, it seems. Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 5 2009, 7:38pm
                Disturbing the comfortable? N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Feb 5 2009, 7:52pm
    Racist, not Radical Ghills Send a private message to Ghills Feb 2 2009, 7:44am
        But race and lineage were less important Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 2 2009, 2:05pm
            Not necesarily. Hobbit culture = quiet context culture, which is unique in LOTR Ghills Send a private message to Ghills Feb 2 2009, 3:02pm
                I did say Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 2 2009, 3:48pm
                    Hobbit Bloodlines Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 2 2009, 8:56pm
                        It's certainly important to the hobbits -- ridiculously so Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 2 2009, 9:24pm
                        Did he? sador Send a private message to sador Feb 2 2009, 10:07pm
                            Oh dear me! Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 2 2009, 10:27pm
                                Well, you had me going. Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 2 2009, 11:30pm
                                Let's just say... FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Feb 3 2009, 1:47pm
        This is fantasy, folks. Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV Feb 2 2009, 4:23pm
            Why not? Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 2 2009, 4:48pm
                Racism Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV Feb 2 2009, 7:20pm
                    Race is a hot-button issue today. Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 2 2009, 8:56pm
                        Another thing we can agree on Curious Elros Send a private message to Elros Feb 3 2009, 2:18am
                            We need to understand where Tolkien fits today Ghills Send a private message to Ghills Feb 3 2009, 3:14pm
                                I guess I better edit my biography Elros Send a private message to Elros Feb 4 2009, 12:52pm
                                    This is a whole different conversation, but Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 4 2009, 1:59pm
                                    Ramping down the words Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 4 2009, 6:02pm
                                        Environmental depredations Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV Feb 4 2009, 6:32pm
                                            We're in good company Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 4 2009, 7:23pm
                                                Tolkien wrote a poem about drugged elephants. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Feb 4 2009, 8:11pm
                                                But do they cause extinctions? Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV Feb 4 2009, 8:18pm
                                        I guess I will just never understand Elros Send a private message to Elros Feb 4 2009, 7:29pm
                                            Distinctions Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 4 2009, 8:14pm
                                                Tell me something i don't know Elros Send a private message to Elros Feb 4 2009, 10:01pm
                                                    Is Aragorn better than everyone else because he's Númenórean? N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Feb 4 2009, 10:57pm
                                                        They do indeed! Elros Send a private message to Elros Feb 5 2009, 1:31am
                                                        MOS is Númenórean. Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Feb 5 2009, 2:34pm
                                                            Better does not Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 5 2009, 3:54pm
                                                                Tortoise versus hare. Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Feb 5 2009, 5:38pm
                                                                    But the tortoise is secretly a hare. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Feb 5 2009, 5:55pm
                                                                        Exactly! Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Feb 5 2009, 6:15pm
                                                                    Great post! simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Feb 5 2009, 6:44pm
                                                                    Beowulf's an interesting comparison. Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 5 2009, 6:45pm
                                                                        Well Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Feb 5 2009, 7:45pm
                                                                            How so? Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 5 2009, 8:19pm
                                                                                Well!! Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Feb 5 2009, 8:42pm
                                                                                    Wonderfully subversive, I meant. Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 5 2009, 10:00pm
                                                                        Farmer Giles of Ham Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 6 2009, 12:17am
                                                                            Not so late. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Feb 6 2009, 12:33am
                                                                                My mistake. Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 6 2009, 12:39am
                                                                    You illustrate my point... Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 5 2009, 11:54pm
                                                                        Yep Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Feb 6 2009, 2:46am
                                                    What does the First Age Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 4 2009, 11:08pm
                                                        Sorry to get you involved again Curious Elros Send a private message to Elros Feb 5 2009, 1:14am
                                                            Oh, I don't think he minds. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Feb 6 2009, 4:30am
                                                    Easy now... Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 5 2009, 4:55am
                                                    We aren't talking about you Ghills Send a private message to Ghills Feb 5 2009, 4:11pm
                                                        Not true simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Feb 5 2009, 4:34pm
                                                            Respectfully beg to differ Ghills Send a private message to Ghills Feb 5 2009, 5:03pm
                                                                We'll have to agree to disagree simplyaven Send a private message to simplyaven Feb 5 2009, 5:31pm
                                                            Since LotR is already denounced Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 5 2009, 5:03pm
                                                                Farther back than you know. Which is a point. a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Feb 5 2009, 5:44pm
                                                                    1849 Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Feb 5 2009, 6:03pm
                                                                    Fair enough. I was trying to Curious Send a private message to Curious Feb 5 2009, 6:24pm
                                                                        Yes, And Gone With The Wind was popular, too. a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Feb 5 2009, 6:33pm
                                                                            And not just the dominant race. Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 6 2009, 12:14am
                                                                                Wow Beren IV Send a private message to Beren IV Feb 6 2009, 2:57am
                                                                                I just saw this post of yours.. Jettorex Send a private message to Jettorex Feb 6 2009, 9:36pm
                                                                                That was me... FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Feb 6 2009, 10:17pm
                                                                    Thank you! // Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 5 2009, 11:56pm
                                                                Being denounced is no indicator of anything... FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Feb 5 2009, 5:56pm
                                                                    Another unconscious prejudice? N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Feb 5 2009, 6:06pm
                                                                        I hadn't seen a.s.'s post FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Feb 5 2009, 6:18pm
                                                                    when one race alone *benefits* from "blood line", that is racism at work. a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Feb 5 2009, 6:19pm
                                                                    Do they still lead? Dreamdeer Send a private message to Dreamdeer Feb 6 2009, 12:00am
                                    Did not mean to give offense Ghills Send a private message to Ghills Feb 5 2009, 3:53pm
    Princess Finduilas of Dol Amroth Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Feb 2 2009, 5:48pm
    Do John Noble and Viggo Mortensen look alike? N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Feb 2 2009, 5:51pm
    Eurocentricity a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Feb 4 2009, 10:32pm
        It's good you're back! sador Send a private message to sador Feb 5 2009, 8:01am
            possibly. Remember, I don't read the appendices much. :-) a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Feb 5 2009, 5:14pm
            Umbar, not Harad, I think Ghills Send a private message to Ghills Feb 5 2009, 10:26pm
                In the Akallabeth sador Send a private message to sador Feb 6 2009, 7:34am
                    I stand corrected Ghills Send a private message to Ghills Feb 6 2009, 3:57pm
        Thank you... Ghills Send a private message to Ghills Feb 5 2009, 10:38pm

 
 
 

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