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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Main:
The Children of Hurin is out and about...
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grammaboodawg
Immortal


Apr 10 2007, 4:15pm

Post #1 of 53 (455 views)
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The Children of Hurin is out and about... Can't Post

And I'm not allowed to take it to read... but I snagged this from the dust jacket. I don't know if this was posted anywhere yet... so please forgive if this has already been shared.





I'm afraid I have nothing else to offer about this, but let's just say the torment of having it so close and not available for circulation until the 17th is nasty! One of our admins already has a claim on it... so I'll wait until I have my own copy to read ;)


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Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!

"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."


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drogo
Lorien


Apr 10 2007, 6:32pm

Post #2 of 53 (199 views)
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I'm jealous [In reply to] Can't Post

I put in an order for it with out library's jobber a while back, but I don't think it's come in yet. I will have to sneak down to the processing unit to see if it's on the shelf.

The travesty is that we, like lots of academic libraries, are going to strip off the dustjacket. I will have to rescue it!


Discuss the Bakshi Lord of the Rings on the Movie Board starting April 16


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Apr 10 2007, 6:44pm

Post #3 of 53 (197 views)
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Whoa... that's nasty! [In reply to] Can't Post

This is a browsing book, so the jacket is left on. There's a fold-out map, too. I'll betcha it's there. Ours came from the publisher yesterday. *twitch*


sample sample
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!

"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."


TORn's Observations Lists


deej
Tol Eressea


Apr 10 2007, 8:29pm

Post #4 of 53 (178 views)
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How frustrating! [In reply to] Can't Post

One of the things I miss about working in a bookstore is that we could take books home early (before they were released).

Crazy I think i'm catching you're twitch, gramma - 1 week to go!

Sincerely, deej - The Artist Formerly Known as djdeathskiss

Atlanta Woot! Moot 2007 - Join us Labor Day weekend; go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlanta_woot_moot/


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Apr 10 2007, 10:10pm

Post #5 of 53 (262 views)
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CoH has already been reviewed: "dotty but also awe-inspiring". (no spoilers) [In reply to] Can't Post

Bryan Appleyard has reviewed The Children of Húrin for The Sunday Times. (Note the responses to Appleyard, including some by Michael Drout and Verlyn Flieger; Drout responded at length here.)

But it's less a review of the new book than a broader discussion of Tolkien's merits and flaws. There are no spoilers for anyone who's read The Silmarillion, and perhaps one spoiler for those who have not.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Detail from earliest version of Thror's MapTolkien Illustrated! Jan. 29-May 20: Visit the Reading Room to discuss art by John Howe, Alan Lee, Ted Nasmith and others, including Tolkien himself.

Apr. 2-8: Ted Nasmith.


Aerlinn
Lorien


Apr 10 2007, 10:29pm

Post #6 of 53 (188 views)
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The link at the bottom... [In reply to] Can't Post

"Wordsworth poem reworked into rap song"

"Lake District tourism executives have had I Wandered Lonely as a Cloud made into a rap video starring a giant squirrel"

And it goes downhill from there.

*sobs*

'I cannot read the furry letters,' said Frodo in a quavering voice.
'No,' said Gandalf, 'but I can.'

'One Ring to drool on them all, One Ring to heed them
One Ring to bring them all and remind them all to feed them
In the land of Kitchen where the litter lies.
'

697.08


Wynnie
Rohan


Apr 11 2007, 12:14am

Post #7 of 53 (171 views)
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Thanks so much for posting this [In reply to] Can't Post

I think Drout deserves a rousing round of applause; his response had me laughing out loud at several points.


Flight to the Ford
from LordofthePeeps.com


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Apr 11 2007, 1:25am

Post #8 of 53 (155 views)
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I was thinking about you [In reply to] Can't Post

and KNEW that you would mourn that little perk ;) *snigger*


sample sample
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!

"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."


TORn's Observations Lists


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Apr 11 2007, 1:44am

Post #9 of 53 (173 views)
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Drout 1, Appleyard 0. [In reply to] Can't Post

"Some who have read the book, or at any rate have reviewed it, have found it
boring, absurd, or contemptible; and I have no cause to complain, since I have similar opinions of their works, or of the kinds of writing that they evidently prefer."

Cool


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"And when Sam heard that he laughed aloud for shear delight, and he stood up and cried: 'O great glory and splendour! And all my wishes have come true!'"


Magpie
Immortal


Apr 11 2007, 3:30am

Post #10 of 53 (147 views)
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Me too... [In reply to] Can't Post

on the thanking, applauding and laughing

Enjoy the LOTR movie soundtracks?
Why not join us for fun and discussion in
the current Movie Music Trivia Game.

SPECIAL *APRIL* EDITION OF THE GAME




mae govannen
Tol Eressea

Apr 11 2007, 7:12am

Post #11 of 53 (142 views)
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*Applause for Drout* indeed!... A great chap and Tolkien admirer. / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)


mae govannen
Tol Eressea

Apr 11 2007, 7:15am

Post #12 of 53 (140 views)
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Nice to see that great quote again! Pure JRRT wits!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

 

'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Apr 11 2007, 9:47am

Post #13 of 53 (139 views)
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*high five* POW! Right in the kisser! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


sample sample
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!

"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."


TORn's Observations Lists


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Apr 11 2007, 9:53am

Post #14 of 53 (153 views)
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Thank Goodness for those voices of reason [In reply to] Can't Post

like Drout who have such a knack for sifting through the... what did he say... "cra.." I love watching someone who is articulate, witty and a geek have at it when he's putting the non-believers in their place. I'm so enchanted by Tolkien's way of weaving words and creating characters, stories and environments that it staggers me when he's criticized as a writer. *shakes head* I feel sorry for them that they can't recognize magic when it smacks them in the face!


sample sample
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!

"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."


TORn's Observations Lists


mae govannen
Tol Eressea

Apr 11 2007, 11:05am

Post #15 of 53 (133 views)
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Agree totally, gramma! :-D [In reply to] Can't Post

 

'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)


Magpie
Immortal


Apr 11 2007, 1:57pm

Post #16 of 53 (134 views)
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agreed and I always take it a bit personally [In reply to] Can't Post

To hear Tolkien essentially trashed like that - with a bit of distasteful disdain - always seems to be someone trashing what's important to me. Really important. If I place high value on something that someone else disdains then the they essential disdain my values.I think Drout called out the 'critic' in this guy well and identified it for me. This guy, and people like him, love the distance they gain by using irony or taking a standoffish superior stance from the subject. What I love about Tolkien (and the other things I value highly) is how connected it makes me feel.

Enjoy the LOTR movie soundtracks?
Why not join us for fun and discussion in
the current Movie Music Trivia Game.

SPECIAL *APRIL* EDITION OF THE GAME




Curious
Half-elven

Apr 11 2007, 1:59pm

Post #17 of 53 (161 views)
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I think what Appleyard yearns for is some hint of topicality. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think Appleyard begrudgingly likes The Children of Hurin because it reminds him of Wagner, who was using myth to make topical points about the death of the Divine. Oddly enough, I think Appleyard misinterprets both LotR and CoH, and would like the former more and the latter less if he had a firmer handle on them. LotR is far more melancholy than it appears, and CoH, to judge by what I have read in what has already been published, is far more hopeful than it appears.

None of Tolkien's writings stand for the death of the Divine, which is, I believe, why Tolkien firmly rejected any comparison between LotR and Wagner. So perhaps Appleyard wouldn't like any of Tolkien's writings if he understood that. But LotR certainly questions whether the world is getting better or steadily worse, until it reaches a nadir requiring a giant eucatastrophe to set things right.

CoH, on the other hand, is a tragedy, and as such shows us a great man facing terrible odds and losing, but only after an epic struggle to win. Furthermore Turin does have one great victory over Glaurung, a victory which nearly redeems his life, and hints at Turin's fatal flaw; in all but this one instance, he refuses to humble himself and ask for or accept help. This doesn't help Turin, but does help the rest of us; the key to victory is to ask for and accept help, as Beren and Tuor and Earendil and Frodo and Aragorn did, and as Turin rarely did. In particular that means asking for help from the Higher Powers, and acting as their servant, a hollow vessel for the Divine.

As for Drout, I think he makes the same mistake as Shippey when he insists that LotR belongs on a list of Great Literature. Drout is closer to the mark when he rejects the standards of Great Literature entirely, because that is what Tolkien did. I am impressed that Drout has apparently read Joyce, Pound, Eliot, Morrison, Rushdie, Eco, and Borges; I doubt that Tolkien did the same. Instead we know that Tolkien read two kinds of books: those that were written a very long time ago, and those that were written in his time but were considered too escapist to be considered Great Literature. Tolkien was not ashamed to be escapist but defiant about it; I sometimes think that the defenses of Shippey and Drout betray a trace of shame that these academics are so entranced by Tolkien. Shippey and Drout do not want to be considered fanboys. But Tolkien did not write LotR for academics or critics; he deliberately wrote it for a wide audience, including millions of fanboys and fangirls. And I don't see anything wrong with that, especially since he did so exceptionally well.


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Apr 11 2007, 2:18pm

Post #18 of 53 (123 views)
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Well said! [In reply to] Can't Post

Especially about others trashing what I hold dear. It holds me back from sharing those few things that I cherish because I'm fearful they'd be minimized by others. It goes for Tolkien, too. I'm careful which "straights" I encourage to read or watch The Lord of the Rings. Same with conventions. I'm still not sure my sister had as much fun as she said she did ;) Kinda puts a speed-bump in the road to geekdom... but not for long ;)


sample sample
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!

"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."


TORn's Observations Lists


Aerin
Grey Havens


Apr 11 2007, 10:19pm

Post #19 of 53 (119 views)
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Begrudgingly? [In reply to] Can't Post

I got the impression Appleyard just plain "liked" CoH. In fact, I had to wonder whether Appleyard might even be inspired to give LOTR another look. In reading Drout's response to this favorable review, I had to wonder how he would have reacted to an unfavorable review!

I agree with your point about Drout (and Shippey); it seems to me that Appleyard agrees, too.


Curious
Half-elven

Apr 11 2007, 10:29pm

Post #20 of 53 (127 views)
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Appleyard does take a few swipes [In reply to] Can't Post

at Tolkien and LotR before he gets around to a generally favorable review of CoH. That's why I say begrudgingly, and I think that's why Drout reacted as he did. Flieger's reaction in the comments section was more restrained.


Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea


Apr 11 2007, 10:38pm

Post #21 of 53 (106 views)
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Thank you for the links [In reply to] Can't Post

I was fascinated by Appleyard's article (and it's inaccuracies- I would swear that Turin was inspired by the Finnish Kalevala, not Wagner. Turin and Kullervo are so similar to one another that you would think they were twins), and I absolutely loved the response by Drout. Thank you very much!

BTW, is it just me, or does Appleyard sound like a name of a Breelander?

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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Apr 11 2007, 10:45pm

Post #22 of 53 (106 views)
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Hard to say. [In reply to] Can't Post

Appleyard barely reviews The Children of Húrin; I think “begrudgingly” reflects the fact that less than one of the article’s seventeen paragraphs is devoted to critical commentary of the new book, which suggests to me that Appleyard wasn’t particularly interested in it. And he does call it “dotty” book that succeeds despite its “wild mythology”.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Detail from earliest version of Thror's MapTolkien Illustrated! Jan. 29-May 20: Visit the Reading Room to discuss art by John Howe, Alan Lee, Ted Nasmith and others, including Tolkien himself.

Apr. 9-15: Anke-Katrin Eissmann.


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Apr 11 2007, 10:46pm

Post #23 of 53 (96 views)
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There's an "Appledore" in Bree. / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Detail from earliest version of Thror's MapTolkien Illustrated! Jan. 29-May 20: Visit the Reading Room to discuss art by John Howe, Alan Lee, Ted Nasmith and others, including Tolkien himself.

Apr. 9-15: Anke-Katrin Eissmann.


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Apr 11 2007, 10:51pm

Post #24 of 53 (116 views)
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Maybe "Great Literature" has been wrongly defined? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
As for Drout, I think he makes the same mistake as Shippey when he insists that LotR belongs on a list of Great Literature. Drout is closer to the mark when he rejects the standards of Great Literature entirely, because that is what Tolkien did....


What is "great literature"? What does it do that Tolkien doesn't? And are those things more important than what Tolkien does, or only different?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Detail from earliest version of Thror's MapTolkien Illustrated! Jan. 29-May 20: Visit the Reading Room to discuss art by John Howe, Alan Lee, Ted Nasmith and others, including Tolkien himself.

Apr. 9-15: Anke-Katrin Eissmann.


Curious
Half-elven

Apr 11 2007, 11:23pm

Post #25 of 53 (103 views)
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Tolkien called LotR a heroic romance. [In reply to] Can't Post

Heroic romances have been out of style since sometime shortly after Cervantes made fun of them in Don Quixote, when "novel" still meant "new." But even so Tolkien might have been better received in the 1850s than in the 1950s. The definition of great literature is a moving target, in other words.

I don't think Tolkien should be put in the pantheon of great literature until he can be both escapist and great. Too often the argument is that he isn't really escapist, and should therefore be considered great. Tolkien himself rejected that argument, and instead defended escapism. Genre literature has no trouble accepting escapism, and Tolkien had no trouble accepting genre literature. So why award him a prize he did not want? LotR is great escapism, great genre literature. It's more than a "mere thriller," to use Tolkien's words, but it is nevertheless a thriller. And until thrillers can be considered great literature, who wants to belong to that club?

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