|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jettorex
Lorien
Jan 14 2009, 9:38pm
Post #151 of 206
(6499 views)
Shortcut
|
"But I never felt that I was exposing them to 'sex' by exposing them to gay people."
And neither do i when my children are around our gay couple (and their children) friends. But they don't say "hi we're gay" to my children, either.
By JK Rowling coming out and saying that "he's gay" it leads to the types of discussions amoungst her young (sometimes too young-IMHO)audience.
Love, Truth, Honor, Adventure
|
|
|
Darkstone
Immortal
Jan 14 2009, 9:40pm
Post #152 of 206
(6528 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Lots of people in LOTR are gay.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
No one in the LOTR universe is gay!
Gandalf is (of course):
'You did indeed!' said Gandalf, laughing suddenly; and he came and stood beside Pippin, putting his arm about the hobbit's shoulders and gazing out of the window. Pippin glanced in some wonder at the face now close beside his own, for the sound of that laugh had been gay…
-ROTK, Chapter 1, Minas Tirith
Merry as well, according to Aragorn:
'Do not be afraid,' said Aragorn. 'I came in time, and I have called him back. He is weary now, and grieved, and he has taken a hurt like the Lady Éowyn, daring to smite that deadly thing. But these evils can be amended, so strong and gay a spirit is in him.'
-ROTK, Chapter 8, The Houses of Healing
Pippin (well, almost):
'So it ends as I guessed it would,' his thought said, even as it fluttered away; and it laughed a little within him ere it fled, almost gay…
-ROTK, Chapter 10, The Black Gate Opens
Treebeard becomes even moreso at the end:
Last of all Merry and Pippin said good-bye to the old Ent, and he grew gayer as he looked at them.
-ROTK, Chapter 6, Many Partings
******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
|
|
|
simplyaven
Grey Havens
Jan 14 2009, 9:50pm
Post #153 of 206
(6489 views)
Shortcut
|
|
May be if you point another ...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
children's author who announced one of his/her characters is gay, the converstion won't be about Rowling anymore. I can't think of any and that's why I'm discussing Rowling and her statement. As about responsibility - not only Rowling is responsible but for what exactly? And no, it is not a false premise that gay relationship, just like any other, is very probable to include sex too. And calling people ignorant just because they admit the presence of sex in a relationship is not very polite. By the way, the witchcraft accusation was a very isolated thing in certain countries and not worldwide attitude.
Culinary journey through Middle Earth continues! Bright new in the New Year - January 15 on the Main board
I believe
|
|
|
a.s.
Valinor
Jan 14 2009, 9:51pm
Post #154 of 206
(6507 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Of course Merry is gay. I don't need a
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
thesaurus, for that!
LOL
a.s.
"an seileachan"
Some say once you're gone, you're gone forever, and some say you're gonna come back.
Some say you'll rest in the arms of the Savior, if sinful ways you lack.
Some say that they're coming back in a garden: bunch of carrots and little sweet peas.
I think I'll just let the mystery be.
Iris DeMent
Call Her Emily
|
|
|
Jettorex
Lorien
Jan 14 2009, 9:59pm
Post #155 of 206
(6485 views)
Shortcut
|
"Is it her fault that ignorant people consider gay to be the equivalent of sex?"
....Thats not what I said (or meant). The childrens conversation i refer to, they were not equivocating being gay with sex. They were talking about it and what it meant.
I apologize we seem to be speaking past each other. I'm going to drop it.
Love, Truth, Honor, Adventure
|
|
|
Annael
Immortal
Jan 14 2009, 10:18pm
Post #156 of 206
(6478 views)
Shortcut
|
I did misread that sentence.
But I'm still convinced life is likely to spring things on kids without warning and you as a parent aren't going to be able to prevent that. Years of working in pediatrics speaking here . . . as for how we got here, I guess my main point is that even if Rowling hadn't said anything, I'd bet that something else would have brought the topic up for your kids soon enough. It's not like no one else talks about it.
Often people attempt to live their lives backwards: they try to have more things, or more money, in order to do more of what they want so they will be happier. The way it actually works is the reverse. You must first be who you really are, then do what you love to do, in order to have what you want.-- Margaret Young
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
(This post was edited by Annael on Jan 14 2009, 10:24pm)
|
|
|
Darkstone
Immortal
Jan 14 2009, 10:23pm
Post #157 of 206
(6467 views)
Shortcut
|
I was thinking it was a masked obscenity. A shortened version of "sthu", which is often used by young people to punctuate their language.
******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
|
|
|
Ufthak
Rivendell
Jan 14 2009, 11:30pm
Post #158 of 206
(6471 views)
Shortcut
|
I swear they spend more time thinking about gay people having sex than gay people do.
"Who the hell are you?" he growled.
"I the hell am Harry," I said.
He pulled out his own gym bag and slammed the car door closed. "You always a wiseass?"
"No. Sometimes I'm asleep."
-Harry Dresden, 'Blood Rites', A Novel of The Dresden Files
|
|
|
dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jan 14 2009, 11:33pm
Post #159 of 206
(6451 views)
Shortcut
|
It can be surprising, what one finds out about others! I remember one long-time TORnsib being astonished to find out I was female.
(And I've made the mistake of not checking the bio, and assuming a guy was a gal, and vice versa... )
But the most pleasant "surprises" are when we find out that people like you who speak English very well had to learn this complex language as a second language: what a great achievement! 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
|
|
|
Magpie
Immortal
Jan 14 2009, 11:38pm
Post #160 of 206
(6463 views)
Shortcut
|
|
well... there's just different forms of communication
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
You're right. Few of my gay friends or acquaintances ever made a big deal of their affectional preference. The were completely well rounded individuals with fascinating personalities and lives. But I don't think people (including my kids) could fail to notice two men who live in the same house, wear wedding bands and have wedding pictures of themselves on the wall. And most of the people we hung with were openly affectionate regardless of orientation so they observed male/female flirting right along with male/male flirting and female/female flirting. So, in a way, although they never felt the need to speak the words 'hi we're gay', they never did one thing to shy from that part of their identity and spoken or not... my kids were not shielded. I can't say what they 'knew' as it just wasn't an issue. If they asked about something, we talked. I never stepped around issues for their sake. In fact, I tried hard never to 'assume' they were straight. If I felt the need during their teen years to prod in the ways mothers must, I tried to phrase things as 'is there anyone you're interested in'... not 'are there any girls you're interested in'.
You know (just ruminating here), some of the people that have crossed our path have had pretty out there lifestyles and personalities. (I think my lifestyle is considered pretty out there by some people and I'm pretty conservative amongst my social group.) Sometimes, I winced when my kids were exposed to something that made me uncomfortable. I wouldn't have chosen to expose them to some of it but life happens and I just discussed or dealt with situations as they happened. Both of my kids were always more comfortable around adults than their peers and they had lots of opportunity to be with adults who were bright and treated them as bright individuals... not boring kids. But my kids have always seem to see these people as just people. Neither have adopted terribly flamboyant or outrageous lifestyles. I think they're more fascinated with the conversation they have with people than fussing about what they're doing in the bedroom or what god they're worshipping.
As an overprotective mother I totally get any parent who cares enough to question issues like this (and there are dozens more). When I worried, I wanted to err on the side of caution. So I don't fault the concern. But on the other hand, having two sons (in their young to mid 20's) who seem to have no lasting ill effects from being around gay people, transgender people, pagans, and other manner of 'fringe' elements (as defined by the mainstream culture), I just don't think there's as much to worry about as some people fear.
2009 Tolkien Computer Monitor Calendars
LOTR soundtrack website : FOTR Lyrics Update, Oct 2008
magpie avatar gallery ~ Torn Image Posting Guide
|
|
|
Kyriel
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jan 15 2009, 12:00am
Post #162 of 206
(6492 views)
Shortcut
|
Being gay is not a choice. Maybe there is a "trend" right now for more young people to experiment with same-sex couplings; I don't know. But let's face it: teens have been experimenting with sex since the dawn of time, and there's not a whole lot anyone can do to stop them. The only thing that's changed today is that, now that society is starting to accept sexual minorities as normal, more young people feel free to experiment with same-gender sex as well as with opposite-gender sex. In the end, they'll figure out what's right for them and stick with that. But only an idiot or a lunatic would "choose" to be gay because it's trendy, not when it a) gives them no real pleasure and b) results in so much discrimination and persecution.
And give me a break about trying to "protect" young people from the truth about sexuality. They're going to learn it whether you want them to or not, and if sexual minority children (Yes, they're born that way. I promise you. And some of them realize the truth very early on.) grow up without any positive role models, they're more likely to become depressed and suicidal because they think something's wrong with them. And straight children also need to learn the truth early on, so they won't discriminate against their peers who are noticeably different.
Dumbledore is a wonderful role model, and I think Rowling was very generous in leaving the truth outside of the books themselves, so that people with big sticks up their butts about the issue can safely ignore it.
Those left standing will make millions writing books on the way it should have been. --Incubus
|
|
|
Kyriel
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jan 15 2009, 12:15am
Post #163 of 206
(6476 views)
Shortcut
|
|
You're still missing the point
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
"Gay" is not a synonym for "sex." It's about whom you're attracted to, whom you have romantic feelings for, whom you love. Sex is only the outcome of those feelings, just as it is in heterosexual relationships. It would be perfectly easy and appropriate to explain to a young child that "gay" means being in love with someone of the same gender. You wouldn't have to get into the physical aspects of it at all. I really do hope you understand that. Please tell me you understand that.
Those left standing will make millions writing books on the way it should have been. --Incubus
|
|
|
silneldor
Half-elven
Jan 15 2009, 1:03am
Post #164 of 206
(6451 views)
Shortcut
|
is right in line with how we think in our family. It is about living your life knowing your kid(s) will pick up so much of how you react to everything. I feel if you keep your own house in order kids will be nurtured in a way that will offer them a firm foundation for perspective. It is also important to surround then with 'beautiful' people of all lifestyles and races (not to forget TORn sibs-another lifestyle and race). If your kids can come to you in trust when a growing maturity brings fresh questions-(any) it means there is a truly loving relationship there.
"Tolkien, like Lewis, believed that, through story, the real world would become a more magical place, full of meaning. We see its patterns and colors in a fresh way. The recovery of a true view of the world applies both to individual things, like hills and stones, and to the cosmic - the depths of space and time itself. For in sub-creation, in Tolkien's view, there is a "survey" of space and time. Reality is captured on a miniature scale. Through stories like The Lord of the Rings, a renewed view of things is given, illuminating the homely, the spiritial, the physical, and the moral dimensions of the world."
Tolkien and C.S. Lewis- The Gift of Friendship -Duriez
May the grace of Manwë let us soar with eagle's wings!
In the air, among the clouds in the sky
Here is where the birds of Manwe fly
Looking at the land, and the water that flows
The true beauty of earth shows
With the stars of Varda lighting my way
In all the realms this is where I stay
In the realm of Manwë Súlimo
By El~Cugu (From the website: 'The realm of Manwe')
|
|
|
simplyaven
Grey Havens
Jan 15 2009, 2:23am
Post #165 of 206
(6460 views)
Shortcut
|
I find this thread is not going into any positive direction. I know what I speak of and I never said anything against anyone, regardless of their sexual orientation. On the contrary, I said I have gay friends. The trend I've seen exists no matter if you find it believable or not. And I'm not trying to protect my child from seeing/knowing there are gay people. He has already spent quite a lot of time with my gay friends. However, I dislike Rowling's statement for many reasons which I pointed a number of times and big part of them is related to the pure marketing/sales side of her dealings. I haven't promoted discrimination and no, I won't raise a discriminative child. And by the way, I'm not discriminative either although there was no Rowling to educate me on homosexuality. All that was said by me and jettorex here was that kids should find out things when they are ready to do so. Kids ask questions and I'm not afraid my son will miss something. I'm pretty sure he will ask whatever interests him - when he decides.
Culinary journey through Middle Earth continues! Bright new in the New Year - January 15 on the Main board
I believe
|
|
|
simplyaven
Grey Havens
Jan 15 2009, 2:27am
Post #166 of 206
(6433 views)
Shortcut
|
I wrote it in a post above just now: I'm not trying to hide my child from the world around or to "protect" him from gay people or homosexualism. As I said before, I have gay friends, dear friends. What I was talking about was the way Rowling dropped the bomb which I dislike. If she was sincere or thinking about money, I have my opinion on this. It has nothing to do with raising tolerant children, IMHO. I grew up as a tolerant person without a Rowling around. Me and jettorex, I think we talk about timing and not about yes/no to homosexualism.
Culinary journey through Middle Earth continues! Bright new in the New Year - January 15 on the Main board
I believe
|
|
|
Laerasëa
Tol Eressea
Jan 15 2009, 5:19am
Post #167 of 206
(6425 views)
Shortcut
|
they can be confusing! If there's a male in the avatar, I automatically think it's a guy (sorry, Ataahua  my fault), and vice versa! It makes me feel very silly sometimes!
********************************
Traveling Journal Official Site
"Who needs drugs when you spend all your money on books?"
-Menelwyn
"A friend helps you find your Silmaril. A true friend helps you slay kin, cross icy wastes, battle your rellies, lose your hand to a Dark Lord and cast yourself into a fissure in the earth."
-Ataahua
"...But life has thus far failed to adjust itself to my liking, so I soldier on."
-Magpie
"I just thought I would share this story, because today is a great day."
-Hobbiton
"True nerddom/geekdom/dorkdom does not kick in until you are in your 50s taking a nerd/geek/dork test on the discussion board of an internet fan site for a fantasy novel/film."
-Squire
|
|
|
Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jan 15 2009, 6:12am
Post #168 of 206
(6432 views)
Shortcut
|
Some nicks have thrown me - particularly Leto's (who isn't around much these days), given that I know the name from the Dune books and the character is male, although the TORNado is female.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
|
|
|
Peredhil lover
Valinor
Jan 15 2009, 7:23am
Post #169 of 206
(6433 views)
Shortcut
|
However, I dislike Rowling's statement for many reasons which I pointed a number of times and big part of them is related to the pure marketing/sales side of her dealings.
To be honest, I don't think that has anything to do with marketing and sales. On the contrary, there have been lots of people who decided not to read the books any longer, who complained now they can't read the books to their children and even burned the books etc. because of Dumbledore being gay. That statement has damaged sales more than improved it, IMHO.
I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.
|
|
|
Peredhil lover
Valinor
Jan 15 2009, 7:32am
Post #170 of 206
(6417 views)
Shortcut
|
To me it was not only surprising, but quite annoying as well - to have the hero marrying someone barely mentioned before seemed rather bad writing to me. More like the wedding had been an afterthought without time to re-write the rest.
I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.
|
|
|
Peredhil lover
Valinor
Jan 15 2009, 7:52am
Post #171 of 206
(6405 views)
Shortcut
|
my problem is that it's pretty much impossible to *lip-read* a language you don't know and at least difficult to lip-read German from someone who doesn't speak it well. But from reading alone I have to say, if you know English and German, you can guess a lot. But I think you're right - often you will find someone who knows at least a bit about the languages you do understand. In the end, with a bit of language mix, you will be able to communicate with people. There have been lots of people from Czechoslovakia, Poland, Italia, Turkey who worked at least for a time in Germany and can help you. And I think that works in the other direction as well. You can learn a few words and then try them out on the natives in that land, and you will probably learn more soon. And today many schools offer more foreign languages for the students to learn, so that helps, too.
I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.
|
|
|
Starling
Half-elven
Jan 15 2009, 8:36am
Post #172 of 206
(6431 views)
Shortcut
|
It's just a total man-love fest. I shan't be able to read it anymore.
|
|
|
Starling
Half-elven
Jan 15 2009, 8:46am
Post #173 of 206
(6407 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Exactly! People are always passing comment on my facial features. //
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
|
|
|
Peredhil lover
Valinor
Jan 15 2009, 11:09am
Post #174 of 206
(6406 views)
Shortcut
|
I know what you mean. In my old forum we had 'Snuffles' and 'Sirius', and as he was male in the books, everyone automatically assumed the posters were male, too. It went so far that almost everyone didn't even get the subtle hints to the contrary, and the few who knew that both posters were very decidedly female had a lot of fun.
I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.
|
|
|
dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jan 15 2009, 11:34am
Post #175 of 206
(6404 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Aww, but you've got a very cute nose!
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
 !
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
|
|
|
|
|
