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NorskGudTor
The Shire
Jan 12 2009, 11:32pm
Post #78 of 206
(7001 views)
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I see how you view it now. I do not use that view choice. I will make a better target for you to hit from now on. Thank you for explaining that instead of assuming I knew what you were talking about. The way most of you view this board is far different from most forums. I just have to adjust.
Never walk
away from home
ahead of your axe and sword.
You can not feel a battle
in your bones,
or foresee a fight.
- The Havamal
Not all tears are an evil...G
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Magpie
Immortal
Jan 12 2009, 11:40pm
Post #80 of 206
(6990 views)
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It's a holdover from the older boards that many people got used to and wanted with their new boards.
I have to say that viewing threaded has many advantages and I always recommend people give it a try to see what they think. It's easy to switch back and forth either by setting preferences or by just choosing one or the other at the top of the board list. You might still prefer flat after trying it but if you have limited time to visit, it's a great time saver as you can quickly see what is happening in the conversation and where you might want to focus your attention.
Cheers.
2009 Tolkien Computer Monitor Calendars
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Alassëa Eruvande
Valinor
Jan 12 2009, 11:42pm
Post #81 of 206
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I appreciate that. 
And suddenly the Ainur saw afar off a light, as it were a cloud with a living heart of flame.
SFTH Archive
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Peredhil lover
Valinor
Jan 13 2009, 6:36am
Post #82 of 206
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Now that you say it, I think I've seen that there, too, but always took it for one of these 'dictionary only' abbreviations. They have their own language sometimes. Fachchinesisch, Du weißt schon 
Es ist immer nett, Landsleute hier zu treffen, nicht wahr? Wir gehören hier zu einer sehr kleinen Minderheit, aber einige von den anderen können auch Deutsch.
Übrigens erinnert mich das an meine ersten Versuche vor fast 5 Jahren, Fanfiction zu kommentieren. Wenn ich heute meine ersten Reviews ansehe, sehe ich überall Fehler - aber niemand hat sich je über mich umd mein miserables Englisch lustig gemacht, und nur deswegen bin ich bei der Stange geblieben. In der Tolkien-Fandom gibt es viele nette Leute
Grüße aus Nürnberg!
I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.
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Milady
Rivendell
Jan 13 2009, 1:13pm
Post #83 of 206
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I think we might be looking at this the wrong way
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Or rather, we're trying to find answers in our own life and times. We don't actually need to analyze the Legendarium in terms of who's sleeping with whom, you know.
I've said several times to my friends that the world today is obsessed with sex. Maybe Nienna just gave good advice? Maybe they were good friends. I don't think it's necessary to assume that just because he is a male and she an unmarried female, as soon as they visit each other they're having sex.
It is true that dreams themselves are inherently sexual, so yes it is very likely that Gandalf would have an expansive knowledge of, if not the act itself, how sex and sexual attration play on the mind. You don't need experience in something to know how other people's minds react to it. I dont know if anyone is really saying that Gandalf knows nothing of sex. I prefer to believe he knows a lot about it, just doesn't choose to partake.
(Is anyone else reminded of a debate a while back over whether or not the Lay of Luthien implied that Beren and Luthien had sex in the forest the first time they met?)
Has anyone ever wondered what would have happened if Smaug had ate Bilbo, and therefore the ring? It would be interesting to see Sauron send orcs to go diving for the Ring.
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sador
Half-elven
Jan 13 2009, 1:37pm
Post #84 of 206
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If you want to publicise your dad
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Why don't you give the link?
Here, starting on question Q.
And also on this thread.
Or do you have in mind a different discussion?
(Is anyone else reminded of a debate a while back over whether or not the Lay of Luthien implied that Beren and Luthien had sex in the forest the first time they met?)
"A sign of affection, possibly" - Saruman
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Jettorex
Lorien
Jan 13 2009, 4:23pm
Post #85 of 206
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I am relatively new here too and was not familiar with having to fill in a subject line, and though I thought it kind of a pain at first, I have come to see it as rather fun and useful.
Thanks for being a good sport.
Good to see another Viking.
Love, Truth, Honor, Adventure
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Jettorex
Lorien
Jan 13 2009, 4:25pm
Post #86 of 206
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But he was pretty popular around the Bathing Pool of Valinor during the sunny months of Lairë  They didn't call him the "Elf with the Wand" for nothing, you know. ....his staff?
Love, Truth, Honor, Adventure
(This post was edited by Jettorex on Jan 13 2009, 4:29pm)
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Tolkien Forever
Gondor
Jan 13 2009, 5:31pm
Post #87 of 206
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issues like sexual preference, sex outside marriage, even where the characters go to the 'potty' can just magically cease to exist.......
Although Tolkien seemed to need to go to the most minute detail in these type of areas, such as 'How far & fast did the Numenoreans march'?, etc.......
However, with Tolkien's particular bent on the world, plus the times, it's really not reasonable to think that Tolkien even thought about adding Homo-sexuality or, say, Aragorn & Arwen sneaking off into the woods around Rivendell to get a little on the side before marriage.
Remember, this was before the 60's 'sexual revolution' turned 'traditional Judeo-Christian values' on their ear & landed us where we are today & the mindset our society as a whole has now on these sexual topics.
Just watch any movie from the time period when Tolkien wrote & you will clearly see how good triumps over evil every time; sex outside marriage is hinted at at best.Referrences to Homo-sexuality are very few & far between & (usually) very veiled at best, like Peter Lorre in 'The Maltese Falcon'.
You also have the issue that it does nothing for the story to get into Gandalf's sexual activities.......
In fact, it would only serve a predetermined political agenda.
......Just like JK Rowling throwing out Dumbledore's in a children's book series.
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Milady
Rivendell
Jan 13 2009, 6:36pm
Post #88 of 206
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I hadn't realized he'd brought up something similar. No, I was thinking about something different, I don't remember when or where the discussion took place.
Has anyone ever wondered what would have happened if Smaug had ate Bilbo, and therefore the ring? It would be interesting to see Sauron send orcs to go diving for the Ring.
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Ufthak
Rivendell
Jan 13 2009, 7:02pm
Post #89 of 206
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...having a homosexual main character in a children's series only serves a premeditated political agenda, but having Ron, Hermione, Harry, Ginny, even Malfoy, for the love of Pete, all growing up, getting married and having children is... what? 'Normal'?
The more children are exposed to the reality of alternate sexual preferences (frame it as 'love' if you like, since that's probably better until a certain age), the less likely they are to react once allegedly grown up with bigotry, homophobia and general 'bash the queer' mentality.
However, in terms of what you wrote about the prevailing styles of the day, I agree that it's unlikely in the extreme that Tolkein ever intended any reading of homosexuality or sex-outside-marriage in his books. What I have queried is people saying that this was because Tolkein was a Catholic (there have been gay Catholics) and because it was the 40s (there were gay people in the 40s). Tolkein didn't write those things because of who he was, which was informed by his religion but not a direct, hard-and-fast, no-other-option consequence, and anyway it probably wouldn't have been printed even if he had considered it.
"Who the hell are you?" he growled.
"I the hell am Harry," I said.
He pulled out his own gym bag and slammed the car door closed. "You always a wiseass?"
"No. Sometimes I'm asleep."
-Harry Dresden, 'Blood Rites', A Novel of The Dresden Files
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Deni
Rivendell
Jan 13 2009, 7:39pm
Post #90 of 206
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cool!-Ich rede hier auch mal auf deutsch...
Ja,das kenn ich allerdings,(wie man ja sehen kann)
my english is horrible!!! aber naja...so verbessert man sich wenigstens^^
Aber zu deinem englisch.ich finde ,du sprichst(schreibst  ") echt gut-wusste nichtmal,dass du deutsch bist haha...
aber vielleicht sollten wir doch lieber im Englischen drin bleiben,nicht,dass einer von den andren noch beleidigt ist oder so (soweit man mich eben versteht)
"Nur nicht so hastig..."-du verstehst ja..
but it´s really nice to speak with somebody in his own language
very nice greetings from Göppingen(BW)
DENI
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Tolkien Forever
Gondor
Jan 13 2009, 8:27pm
Post #91 of 206
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The first Six books anyhow, there was no mention of Dumbledore having ANY type of sexual interest or sexual preferrence, PERIOD.
My daughter informs me the 7th book doesn't either - duh he's dead.
Why must there be any in a children's book?
Does a nine or ten year old ( the age my children were when reading these books to begin with) need to be exposed to sex before they are old enough to maturely handle it?
Having not brought up Dumbledore in any type of a sexual situation in the series & to now do so years later in making him suddenly Gay serves no purpose other than to push forward an agenda of 'tolerance' for homosexuality.....
One can agree or disgree with this on their own moral beliefs - I'm not debating that.
My statement is simply that saying Dumbledore is Gay serves no literary purpose at all & therefore MUST serve another purpose & agenda.
Did Rowling come out & say Snape was a Muslim or a Catholic?
A liberal or a Conservative?
Pro-Isreal or Palestinian?
Why not?
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Arwen's daughter
Half-elven
Jan 13 2009, 8:38pm
Post #92 of 206
(6966 views)
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Having not brought up Dumbledore in any type of a sexual situation in the series & to now do so years later in making him suddenly Gay serves no purpose other than to push forward an agenda of 'tolerance' for homosexuality.....
Dumbledore's sexuality was revealed as a clarification about his deep relationship with the wizard Grindelwald.
Does a nine or ten year old ( the age my children were when reading these books to begin with) need to be exposed to sex before they are old enough to maturely handle it?
I believe that you might be confusing relationships and sex here. One can exist without showing the other. You don't have to show sex to children in order to show a gay relationship.
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entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jan 13 2009, 8:39pm
Post #93 of 206
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Actually, Dumbledore's previous
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relationship is very relevant to book seven. It's not about sex, but about the most important theme of the series: love. I agree with what Ufthak said - children don't need to learn about sex to learn that two men or two women can love each other, just like a man and woman can.
Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.
NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows
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Darkstone
Immortal
Jan 13 2009, 8:42pm
Post #94 of 206
(6926 views)
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******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jan 13 2009, 8:50pm
Post #95 of 206
(6955 views)
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that I'd like to get into sometime about Rowling's theme of love being the strongest magic of all, as expressed by Dumbledore - even though Dumbledore's first experience of love (outside his family) had such devastating personal consequences. I think there's a lot to consider here - about the good and bad sides of an overwhelming emotion, control vs exuberance, and how something that can be so devastating can also be the ultimate healer.
Another time, though, I think.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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Tolkien Forever
Gondor
Jan 13 2009, 8:54pm
Post #96 of 206
(6943 views)
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read the Seventh book - how mant people read the first 6 & not the last one  - Perhaps I am not qualified to comment fully on the subject at hand......
I do know my daughters told me Rowling was asked if Dumbledore was Gay & she responded.....
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entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jan 13 2009, 9:06pm
Post #97 of 206
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but I think that would be a great discussion to have!
Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.
NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows
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Ufthak
Rivendell
Jan 13 2009, 11:26pm
Post #99 of 206
(6959 views)
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With regard to being 'exposed to sex'
[In reply to]
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in the fairly cringeworthy 'happily ever after' ending at the very end of the seventh Potter book, Harry and Ginny, and Ron and Hermione, and Draco and... whoever he ended up with... all have kids, which is obviously due to them having heterosexual sex. And obviously all those characters were created due to heterosexual sex between their parents. If there is all that blatant evidence of hetereosexual sexual activity taking place, why is it a problem if Rowling decides to have one (just one) of her main characters having had a relationship, many years in the past and never described as sexual, just of love (it might have been purely celibate for all we know), with someone of the same sex?
For all we know, Dumbledore and Grindelwald spent their time holding hands and looking at the stars, with nothing else going on. We KNOW that Lily and James Potter, and Arthur and Molly Weasley, and Hermione's parents, and Lucius and... whatever his wife is called, and then Harry and Ginny, and Ron and Hermione, and Draco and whoever his wife ended up being (apart from Bellatrix I found all of Rowling's evil females to be remarkably unmemorable), ALL ended up doing a bit of horizontal jogging.
Please, how does Dumbledore's sexuality result in a child being exposed to sex by reading those books in a way that they weren't already going to be through the antics of the straight characters?
"Who the hell are you?" he growled.
"I the hell am Harry," I said.
He pulled out his own gym bag and slammed the car door closed. "You always a wiseass?"
"No. Sometimes I'm asleep."
-Harry Dresden, 'Blood Rites', A Novel of The Dresden Files
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Ufthak
Rivendell
Jan 13 2009, 11:26pm
Post #100 of 206
(6946 views)
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...is that Luthien: The Baywatch Years?
"Who the hell are you?" he growled.
"I the hell am Harry," I said.
He pulled out his own gym bag and slammed the car door closed. "You always a wiseass?"
"No. Sometimes I'm asleep."
-Harry Dresden, 'Blood Rites', A Novel of The Dresden Files
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