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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Fan Art:
The Spell of the Nightingale

WonderBroad
Lorien


Apr 7 2007, 5:53pm

Post #1 of 14 (507 views)
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The Spell of the Nightingale Can't Post

"Then the spell of silence fell from Beren, and he called to her, crying Tinuviel; and the woods echoed the name. Then she halted in wonder, and fled no more, and Beren came to her. But as she looked on him, doom fell on her, and she loved him; yet she slipped from his arms and vanished from his sight even as the day was breaking."

--The Silmarillion




This is an oldie! It was a great time to be illustrating from The Silmarillion because so few people were doing it at that point.

Back then I was still using Hunt Speedball dip pens with changeable nibs, and bottles of Higgins ink. That's why there is so little stippling for shading in the drawing, because that's hard to do with this sort of pen (at least for me). I really struggled with these pens, so soon after this I switched to Rapidographs by Koh-i-noor.

Pen and ink.


(This post was edited by WonderBroad on Apr 7 2007, 5:55pm)


Beren IV
Gondor


Apr 8 2007, 5:46am

Post #2 of 14 (482 views)
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Probably my favorite of yours yet [:)] [In reply to] Can't Post

if primarily because of the characters!Tongue

Very nice compositionally, and very good image of Lúthien, who, as I just mentioned in an RR thread on Nasmith, Lúthien is one of the hardest of Tolkien's characters to draw well, which you do. I notice your continued love for the folds in clothing: these clothes give the impression of a thicker fabric than just simple cloth - is this intentional? Also, what is Beren wearing? And last, what are the trees in the background, birches? Poplars?

Nice! Smile

Once a paleontologist, now a botanist, will be a paleobotanist


Patty
Immortal


Apr 8 2007, 11:09pm

Post #3 of 14 (315 views)
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Wonderbroad, your skill [In reply to] Can't Post

in the vision and execution of these "glimpses of Middle earth" never ceases to amaze me.

At home, amongst the Mallorn trees.

(This post was edited by Patty on Apr 8 2007, 11:10pm)


WonderBroad
Lorien


Apr 9 2007, 10:38pm

Post #4 of 14 (320 views)
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re: [In reply to] Can't Post

>>these clothes give the impression of a thicker fabric than just simple cloth - is this intentional?

I must confess that I can't figure out how "thicker fabric" and "simple cloth" differ, or why it should matter.

>> Also, what is Beren wearing?

That would be a long-sleeve tunic. Again, apparently my costuming decisions do not perfectly match the image of clothing in Middle-earth that evidently is in your head. But I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

I feel you are consistently focusing on the wrong things. I draw and paint for emotional impact, but you want to nitpick about types of trees and what fabric was used to make the characters' clothing, and whether a wall is marble or wood (see your commentary on the Denethor drawing), etc.

I do know details from particular scenes are very important, and I selectively use the ones that will help me achieve what I want to achieve. Artist's prerogative, after all. But if you are going to look only at the minutiae and ignore the emotion, then you are missing the entire point of my illustrations.

Oh, well. I understand my images of Middle-earth can't be any more than my take on the various subjects.


(This post was edited by WonderBroad on Apr 9 2007, 10:41pm)


Beren IV
Gondor


Apr 9 2007, 10:49pm

Post #5 of 14 (307 views)
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Sorry [:/] [In reply to] Can't Post

I am sorry if I seem to be constantly harping on clothing, or if I am constantly complaining. I like your drawings - I'm just wondering what the details represent, because I'm trying to bring your two-dimensional images to life. I'm asking questions to bring out your vision, to see why you did the things you did, because they're cool, and beautiful, producing artwork this good. Please, don't take any offense - none is meant! For all I know, you may inspire my own vision!

*

My questions about clothing here are basically this: these look like thick clothes, worn for cold climates. Do you envision Doriath being cold?

Once a paleontologist, now a botanist, will be a paleobotanist


Radhruin
Rohan


Apr 9 2007, 11:36pm

Post #6 of 14 (321 views)
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Whoa [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been reading BerenIV's comments on your art and have never seen anything that isn't complimentary. I enjoy your talent very much, and from what I've read of BerenIV's comments, he does too. I would hardly call it nitpicking. What I saw were questions on your reasoning behind certain aspects of your style. Not judgements on their validity. Anyway, I suppose it's none of my business, except for the fact that you chose to display your talent in public, and BerenIV has provided intelligent commentary on it. I for one, love to see your talent, and love even more seeing comments on it by those more knowledgable than me. Keep it up!

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
~Oscar Wilde


WonderBroad
Lorien


Apr 10 2007, 3:17am

Post #7 of 14 (302 views)
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re: [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I am sorry if I seem to be constantly harping on clothing, or if I am constantly complaining. I like your drawings - I'm just wondering what the details represent, because I'm trying to bring your two-dimensional images to life. I'm asking questions to bring out your vision, to see why you did the things you did, because they're cool, and beautiful, producing artwork this good. Please, don't take any offense - none is meant! For all I know, you may inspire my own vision!

*

My questions about clothing here are basically this: these look like thick clothes, worn for cold climates. Do you envision Doriath being cold?



Hi, Beren IV,

I can take criticism, certainly, and since I have been doing this a long time, I've had my share of good and bad (believe me, I've heard a lot worse than yours!). But I feel some of it has focused on areas of the drawings that I personally don't consider all that important. That's clearly the difficulty--you're commenting on things of interest to you that I don't think are critical to the overall impact of the drawings. So it's frustrating to me, because I don't understand why. I keep thinking to myself "Did he miss what I was trying to do in the scene, since the details are what seem to concern him, rather than the emotional content?"

But I understand now that you're asking simply out of curiosity.

Obviously, I'm letting things irk me that really shouldn't bother me. So I will button up now. Please say whatever you like!


FingonOfPittsburgh
Lorien


Apr 10 2007, 4:56pm

Post #8 of 14 (302 views)
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re [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I've been reading BerenIV's comments on your art and have never seen anything that isn't complimentary. I enjoy your talent very much, and from what I've read of BerenIV's comments, he does too. I would hardly call it nitpicking.


You haven't read them all, apparently.


Out of the darkness of my life, so much frustrated, I put before you the one great thing to love on earth: the Blessed Sacrament... There you will find romance, glory, honour, fidelity, and the true way of all your loves on earth, and more than that: Death: by the divine paradox, that which ends life, and demands the surrender of all, and yet by the taste (or foretaste) of which alone can what you seek in your earthly relationships (love, faithfulness, joy) be maintained, or take on that complexion of reality, of eternal endurance, which every man's heart desires.

--J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #43, to his son Michael


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Apr 11 2007, 12:12am

Post #9 of 14 (296 views)
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I have. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
I've been reading BerenIV's comments on your art and have never seen anything that isn't complimentary. I enjoy your talent very much, and from what I've read of BerenIV's comments, he does too. I would hardly call it nitpicking.

You haven't read them all, apparently.

I just took five minutes to read every comment that Beren IV has posted to the Fan Art forum, most of them made in reply to WonderBroad's art. Every initial response includes a complimentary remark*, usually backed up with some explanation of why he likes a piece of art. Almost every first response also includes some criticism, often very carefully detailed. (Some of his responses to responses include no compliments, but they aren't negative either, merely further careful comments.) As WonderBroad notes, Beren IV may be looking for something completely irrelevant to her intentions, but that's his right.

*But should it be necessary for replies here to be complimentary -- if someone posts art I don't like, can I not say so?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Detail from earliest version of Thror's MapTolkien Illustrated! Jan. 29-May 20: Visit the Reading Room to discuss art by John Howe, Alan Lee, Ted Nasmith and others, including Tolkien himself.

Apr. 9-15: Anke-Katrin Eissmann.


FingonOfPittsburgh
Lorien


Apr 11 2007, 1:53am

Post #10 of 14 (295 views)
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re [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
I've been reading BerenIV's comments on your art and have never seen anything that isn't complimentary. I enjoy your talent very much, and from what I've read of BerenIV's comments, he does too. I would hardly call it nitpicking.

You haven't read them all, apparently.

I just took five minutes to read every comment that Beren IV has posted to the Fan Art forum, most of them made in reply to WonderBroad's art. Every initial response includes a complimentary remark*, usually backed up with some explanation of why he likes a piece of art. Almost every first response also includes some criticism, often very carefully detailed. (Some of his responses to responses include no compliments, but they aren't negative either, merely further careful comments.) As WonderBroad notes, Beren IV may be looking for something completely irrelevant to her intentions, but that's his right.

*But should it be necessary for replies here to be complimentary -- if someone posts art I don't like, can I not say so?


Clearly you and I have different interpretations of the term "nit-picking," then.

No surprise there.



Out of the darkness of my life, so much frustrated, I put before you the one great thing to love on earth: the Blessed Sacrament... There you will find romance, glory, honour, fidelity, and the true way of all your loves on earth, and more than that: Death: by the divine paradox, that which ends life, and demands the surrender of all, and yet by the taste (or foretaste) of which alone can what you seek in your earthly relationships (love, faithfulness, joy) be maintained, or take on that complexion of reality, of eternal endurance, which every man's heart desires.

--J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #43, to his son Michael


FingonOfPittsburgh
Lorien


Apr 11 2007, 1:57am

Post #11 of 14 (292 views)
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re [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To


*But should it be necessary for replies here to be complimentary -- if someone posts art I don't like, can I not say so?


Of course you can, but you probably shouldn't.

I have seen very little Tolkien art I do like in this forum, besides WB's. But I don't see any point to commenting in those threads. I prefer to remain positive about what I do like, and silent on what I don't. It certainly seems more polite that way.


Out of the darkness of my life, so much frustrated, I put before you the one great thing to love on earth: the Blessed Sacrament... There you will find romance, glory, honour, fidelity, and the true way of all your loves on earth, and more than that: Death: by the divine paradox, that which ends life, and demands the surrender of all, and yet by the taste (or foretaste) of which alone can what you seek in your earthly relationships (love, faithfulness, joy) be maintained, or take on that complexion of reality, of eternal endurance, which every man's heart desires.

--J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #43, to his son Michael


Radhruin
Rohan


Apr 11 2007, 3:32am

Post #12 of 14 (309 views)
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Yeah, I have [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
You haven't read them all, apparently.


Can you point me in the right direction, as far as BerenIV's comments go, that constitutes nitpicking? And even if he were, why exactly is he not allowed to nitpick?

On a side note, I notice that you critique the American Idol contestants, as do I. I wouldn't call your negative comments on various performances nitpicking. It's your opinion. And I very often agree with you, but if I don't agree I don't get after you for having a different opinion.

I'm afraid that I do not know the artist posting here personally. However, if I was going to put my neck out and post my music, or poetry, or any of my talents in a completely public forum, I'd better be ready for positive and negative feedback. It's not any different than me going to an art gallery, or concert, etc...and expressing my opinion on what I saw or heard.

WonderBroad can hardly expect all viewers of her art to see it in the same context that she conceived it when she produced it. That is simply too much to ask.

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
~Oscar Wilde


WonderBroad
Lorien


Apr 11 2007, 11:19am

Post #13 of 14 (281 views)
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re: [In reply to] Can't Post

>>WonderBroad can hardly expect all viewers of her art to see it in the same context that she conceived it when she produced it. That is simply too much to ask.

Of course I don't expect it, and as I said up the thread, I've heard worse. But criticism that dwells on very small points and details that, to me, have nothing to do with the big picture, is strange, because (again, as I said), I felt it was missing the point of the whole piece.

Critique away. If it's constructive, I'll respond. If it's focusing on details I don't think are important, I'll refrain from responding.


Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Apr 11 2007, 4:04pm

Post #14 of 14 (323 views)
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My totally uneducated thoughts. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
[ As WonderBroad notes, Beren IV may be looking for something completely irrelevant to her intentions, but that's his right.


It occurs to me that Beren IV is looking at these paintings with the eye of a scientist, trained to observe detail, and to ask questions. I don't think his intent is to nitpick or criticize, but I suppose an artist might receive it that way.

I remember when I posted my fanfic in the reading room a long time ago, Curious said some very kind things about it but also questioned some of the assumptions I had made about what happens to the elves after the end of Arda. He is a lawyer and also trained to focus on detail (as am I, as a math teacher). I was not at all offended; I was flattered that he had taken my work seriously enough to look at it in such minute detail. As a writer, I'd rather hear someone criticize my work in excruciating detail than to hear them praise it with no detail at all. But that's just me.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chance Meeting at Rivendell: a Tolkien Fanfic
and some other stuff I wrote...
leleni at hotmail dot com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 
 

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