|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Guillermo
Ossiriand
Nov 16 2008, 5:25am
Post #1 of 38
(6421 views)
Shortcut
|
In the age of computers, the CARDING system for structural purposes may seem like an archaism. I have actually used it most every time I adapt a BOOK. It is a GREAT second exercise in excerpting AFTER the Highlighter pass. I do it alone and with appropiate background music or company if I can ( althought I also do it in the big kitchen table while my older daughter finishes her daily homework.
So far I've used to construct many adaptations that have not been filmed but that remain my favorite screenplays I've written. Notably and in point:
1) WIND IN THE WILLOWS (which, strangely has some "Hobbitoid" echoes in the Piper at the Gates of Dawn and the underground excursions) which remains at Disney. I refused to "modernize" it as I felt the original work was emotionally and ideologically a charming creature dependant of the idiosyncrasies of its time and that, in fact they were part of what would make it succesful and charming as a film. I co-wrote this one with Matthew Robbins, director of DRAGONSLAYER.
2) THE WITCHES. I adapted this tale for WB and I believe it was a very difficult translation in which I trie dto preserve Roald Dahl's unique dialogue rythms and style. I am - to this day- the proudest of having had Liccy Dahl praise it for being the FIRST script to capture the book in its first draft. I wrote this Solo and my heart sinks knowing I may never direct it.
I promise to scan and make accesible the entire card set and EVERY available piece of adaptation paperwork we generate and can clear with the DVD department when The Hobbit is finally released in the home video format.
Back to Evening Work-
All the Best
GDT
|
|
|
squire
Gondolin
Nov 16 2008, 5:41am
Post #2 of 38
(3691 views)
Shortcut
|
It's good to hear you stick with what works, no matter how low tech. Computer fans (I am one, mostly) too often forget that not all types of information can be crammed onto a 20" screen (or two).
When adapting a story, content competes with structure for importance, and so the adapter needs a way to display and manipulate both simultaneously. Cards laid out on a table or floor, taking up a 3' x 6' area or a 6' x 12' area, are far more efficient at this than some elaborate software. Sure it can display complex structure, but you have to click to read the content -- and vice versa.
I was in the library today looking at an old atlas that was about 30" high with gorgeously detailed full color maps on every page. I found myself mourning the day, soon to come, when all maps will be digitized on a screen. Then atlases and large printed maps will be forgotten.
Sometimes you just want a great big map on the wall, not some zoomable amorphous graphic on a tablet sized flatscreen!
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
|
|
|
N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Nov 16 2008, 5:53am
Post #3 of 38
(3665 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Tolkien: "I do not think that the reader or the maker of fairy-stories need even be ashamed of the 'escape' of archaism"
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
From his essay, "On Fairy-stories". He goes on:
of preferring not dragons but horses, castles, sailing-ships, bows and arrow; not only elves, but knight and kings and priests. For it is after all possible for a rational man, after reflection (quite unconnected with fairy-story, or romance), to arrive at the condemnation, implicit at least in the mere silence of 'escapist' literature, of progressive things like factories, or the machine-guns and bombs that appear to be their most natural and inevitable, dare we say 'inexorable', products.
You mention The Wind in the Willows. Tolkien was a fan, though he had doubts about the "Piper at the Gates of Dawn" sequence that you mention. From his drafts for "On Fairy-stories" that were finally published this year:
This is an almost perfect blend, at the russet stage, of many pigments: beast-fable, satire, comedy, contes des fées (or even pantomime), wild-wood and rivers of Oxfordshire – with just in one corner that colour, too much, the beautiful colour in itself that muddies the exquisite hue. Pan has no business here: at least not explicit and revealed.
Thanks for continuing to update us on your process!
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!
Join us Nov. 10-16 for "The Tower of Cirith Ungol".
****************************************
And we're discussing Tolkien's classic essay, "On Fairy-stories", Oct. 20-Nov. 30. This week:
"Men dressed up as talking animals may achieve buffoonery or mimicry, but they do not achieve Fantasy."
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
How to find old Reading Room discussions.
|
|
|
SirDennisC
Gondolin
Nov 16 2008, 6:28am
Post #4 of 38
(3718 views)
Shortcut
|
So do you go straight from the 3x5's to previs or to storyboards? Or does a (manu)script emerge from the cards before either of these stages?
Do you place photos of locations, cast hopefuls, colour swaths or fabrics alongside the cards when they are up on the wall? (Thinking of dvd extra doc on KoH DC describing R Scott's process.)
|
|
|
Guillermo
Ossiriand
Nov 16 2008, 8:09am
Post #5 of 38
(4126 views)
Shortcut
|
-pulling a couple of "all-nighters" before next week since Im organizing a BIG "show and tell" for HoD's and my writing teammates. But, YES, although there are no COLOR swatches in the CARDS I have already COLOR-CODED the movie in my notebook and the cards. That's always a FIRST STEP in what I do. The color and shape and texture of the film already exist in my head now. Complete and vivid. I am very excited and happy with the visuals that are manifesting themselves in the process. Very grand, very majestic and then- in occasion- intimate and warm. A true feast.
Back to work
G
|
|
|
Compa_Mighty
Dor-Lomin
Nov 16 2008, 8:50am
Post #6 of 38
(3604 views)
Shortcut
|
|
That should be a very interesting extra!
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
First of all, thanks for keeping us updated. Secondly, I believe in this kind of work, there are no anachronisms. One will always be at their best when a self-created/self-imposed method is closely followed.
Deviating from the method makes you conscious about the process, which ultimately detracts from the creative work itself. Computers are highly overrated for this kind of process, as they are huge and easy distractors, and have an inherent risk of potential loss of everything.
Ultimately, anything that works in favor of a better movie should be encouraged. 
May everything continue to work smoothly!
Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!
Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!
|
|
|
Jazmine
Dor-Lomin
Nov 16 2008, 3:33pm
Post #7 of 38
(3545 views)
Shortcut
|
Look forward to this extra on the DVD! 
*Jazminatar the Brown*
|
|
|
Peredhil lover
Doriath
Nov 16 2008, 4:41pm
Post #8 of 38
(3566 views)
Shortcut
|
I really look forward to that! It is so fascinating to learn more about the film making process! I'll be very interested in learning how exactly these two movies were developed. And no, cards aren't archaic - there are still things that work better with paper and pen.
Thank you *so* much for keeping us updated and all the interesting tidbits you are posting! I hope things are going smoothly for you and you keep enjoying the work.
I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.
|
|
|
simplyaven
Hithlum
Nov 16 2008, 5:33pm
Post #9 of 38
(3534 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Same here! Thanks GDT, for taking time to make us part of the process! //
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Culinary journey through Middle Earth continues! Join us on November 15 on the Main board
I believe
|
|
|
SirDennisC
Gondolin
Nov 16 2008, 6:17pm
Post #10 of 38
(3690 views)
Shortcut
|
and the promise of card copies!
I had a feeling that colour was a primary concern of yours though am surprised it figures so early in the process. This must be the reason your films are a feast for the eyes and senses. The browns, creams, oranges, and reds from the HB II sets (the Elf realm especially) are a memory I feel somewhere between my head and my heart. Their richness is forever part of us now.
Did I say thanks?
|
|
|
Elven
Doriath
Nov 16 2008, 7:03pm
Post #12 of 38
(3591 views)
Shortcut
|
Swishtail.
Tolkien was a Capricorn!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn!!
Avatar: Liberace - The other Lord of the Rings.
Quote of The Week: The thing is I always write in the morning, and I know that if I go to the Net I won’t write ... you can start in the most scholarly website and end up at Paris Hilton dot com .. GdT
|
|
|
Peredhil lover
Doriath
Nov 16 2008, 7:15pm
Post #13 of 38
(3560 views)
Shortcut
|
and if I mention "that 'PJ' said, or 'GdT' does this" .. again in front of the Director I think I'll be made 'runner'. That director is only jealous because you're learning from the very best!
I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.
|
|
|
Elven
Doriath
Nov 16 2008, 9:23pm
Post #14 of 38
(3556 views)
Shortcut
|
he does know, he loves GdT ... but I think I've worn his ears off
He is learning from him too
Cheers PL 
Elven x
Swishtail.
Tolkien was a Capricorn!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn!!
Avatar: Liberace - The other Lord of the Rings.
Quote of The Week: The thing is I always write in the morning, and I know that if I go to the Net I won’t write ... you can start in the most scholarly website and end up at Paris Hilton dot com .. GdT
|
|
|
grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
Nov 16 2008, 9:54pm
Post #15 of 38
(3575 views)
Shortcut
|
I can see you would become so intimate with a story by tracing moments and events onto 3x5 cards. Each one would almost exist as an independent piece of a puzzle. Moving the cards around... re-visiting the story in so many different ways. It's probably surprising how often the original order would keep appearing.
I was helping to write a book on marketing terms back in 1980/81 where I put each word and definition on a 3x5 card. There was something so gratifying about watching that growing pile of cards... each one a piece of the puzzle. I could also handle what seemed like an enormous and intimidating project in the beginning by breaking it down like that.
I would be so grateful to see your cards, your process, your journey. Thank you for everything you're doing. I hope your dream of one day finishing your work on Wind in the Willows and The Witches can be fulfilled. :) One day, one project at a time... right? ;)
*warm hug*
"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.
TORn's Observations Lists
|
|
|
grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
Nov 16 2008, 10:02pm
Post #16 of 38
(3541 views)
Shortcut
|
"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.
TORn's Observations Lists
|
|
|
mwirkk
Nargothrond
Nov 16 2008, 10:17pm
Post #17 of 38
(3599 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Colour-coding and the writing process
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
...I have already COLOR-CODED the movie in my notebook and the cards. That's always a FIRST STEP in what I do. The color and shape and texture of the film already exist in my head now. Complete and vivid...
Hola Guillermo!
Thanks so much for taking the time out of your hectic schedule to give us these updates and glimpses into the process. :)
You mentioned here that you already have the movie colour-coded in your minds-eye as a first step, and in your notebook. Is this already committed to one of your diary/bibles like you show, for example, the colouring for HB2 in one of these books in an interview recently on AMC's "Shootout" (with Peter Bart)?
If you do/did, does the process of the script writing change or influence that in any significant way as it evolves? Or the converse, does the colour schema enforce any preconceived structure upon the scripts structure?
Do you ever rip a page out of your book? What do you do if you change your mind? Do you ever take a mulligan? :)
I think your notebooks are extraordinary. A real treasure. It's wonderful that you are saving them as a legacy for your daughters. Huzzah! I just hope the world doesn't have to wait until you die before it gets a chance to see them (which you've alluded to?). I'm sure everyone wishes you nothing short of a very long and happy life! And, since you are a few years younger than me, I don't know I want to wait that long. ;)
Btw- You've mentioned many times your extensive and eclectic personal library. I am very curious about it. (I'm a bit of a bibliophile.) Have you ever thought of making puplicly available some of you're inventory catalog? I've been thinking about that since I became aware of LibraryThing, which came to my attention thanks in part to an AU author (Simon Haynes) and the good folks here at TORn.
Gracias! Kiitos! Danke! Thx and Cheers!!
-Matt in Seattle :)
The Black Knight Always Triumphs!!
-mwirkk :)
|
|
|
dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Nov 16 2008, 11:25pm
Post #18 of 38
(3517 views)
Shortcut
|
Thank you for taking a moment to keep us all updated on the intimate details of your work! It seems so simple - highlight the text, then write up the cards - but this gives a physical presence to the text and allows it to be manipulated both mentally and physically. No computer can give you that.
It's delightful that you and your daughter can sit together, each working on the "homework" you have! What kinds of music do you find helpful for this kind of task?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
|
|
|
Magpie
Elvenhome
Nov 17 2008, 12:20am
Post #19 of 38
(3561 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I was taught to start every paper with index cards
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
...and outlines. Even today, when I need to write a paper or lead a discussion, I gather as much info as I can and it all gets placed, item by item, onto index cards and the index cards sorted into little piles and then... all of a sudden, it starts to coalesce into a cohesive thought. I also use index cards (with updated notes on post its) to manage my work projects. The cards move around depending on the projects status.
I'm charmed to find you do the same. I buy index cards in packages of 500! I would love to see them (are they in English or Spanish?).
and good for you for not 'modernizing' Wind in the Willows. I suppose that's what they call it when they add toilet jokes to Dr. Seuss.
LOTR soundtrack website : FOTR Lyrics Update, Oct 2008
magpie avatar gallery ~ Torn Image Posting Guide
|
|
|
sadhaka
Registered User
Nov 17 2008, 2:35am
Post #21 of 38
(3555 views)
Shortcut
|
As someone who has been to film school and was raised by an AD in film who later became a director in TV, I must say I've learned a lot I never knew about film making from all of this. The LOTREE DVD's showed so much of how PJ works, and now these glimpses into your process - really fascinating.
Thanks and keep sharing.
|
|
|
mwirkk
Nargothrond
Nov 17 2008, 3:49am
Post #22 of 38
(3557 views)
Shortcut
|
Hi Sadhaka! Hope to maybe hear about some of the 1st/2nd-hand experiences you might have had opportunity to see and hear while growing up. :)
Did you, by chance, also see PJ's daily/weekly production diaries and post-production diaries that were posted during the making of King Kong? They were very interesting, as well as entertaining. They were posted on TORn's sister site, KIKn. I read somewhere that during their online run they were actually being followed very closely as an instructional aide at some film schools. They're presently available as stand-alone and bundled extras on DVD. Worth getting if you don't have them already.
I really hope that we get treated to something similar during the Hobbit's production cycle. I have high hopes, because PJ has set the gold standard in production extras. :)
Cheers!
The Black Knight Always Triumphs!!
-mwirkk :)
(This post was edited by mwirkk on Nov 17 2008, 3:52am)
|
|
|
Ainu Laire
Dor-Lomin
Nov 17 2008, 4:09am
Post #23 of 38
(3488 views)
Shortcut
|
I'd love to see that one day. It was one of my favorite books as a child; I loved Roald Dahl.
As for note cards, I'm afraid I never caught on; I was always an "outline" person. Written outlines would have many papers, but I have taken to writing said outlines on the computer instead to preserve paper and my sanity when I lose those loose sheets of paper 
My LJ
My art site
NARF since age 8, when I refused to read the Hobbit because the cover looked boring and icky.
|
|
|
mwirkk
Nargothrond
Nov 17 2008, 4:59am
Post #24 of 38
(3493 views)
Shortcut
|
I still have card stacks from some of the first "real" papers I ever wrote in high-school (and some from college too).
I think of them as batch jobs, like stacks IBM punch cards we'd used when I first learned to program. :) I wrote many of my early programs on 3x5's too, because much of the time there weren't usually computers at hand to try them out - they were too expensive for students to own, or to have access to in one of the labs anytime you wanted. But this structured, compartmented approach taught me the importance of outlining. Those cards then provided the closest thing available to the flexibility that electronic editors eventually made into something we just take for granted now - the first time I saw text cut/copied/pasted in a word processor I was blown away!
The outlining skills that 3x5's taught served me well on research and technical papers. And you are right, Magpie, about how things just start to coalesce and find their own natural form. It even helped me a couple of times get better scores in essay test finals: more than once I ran out of time before completing every question, but I made sure to have the answers already outlined, some of the text written to establish narrative, and then go back to complete them as time allowed. That would get me partial credit on anything not finished, because I had demonstrated the direction the completed answer would have gone. :)
Anyway, I might take the process too far sometimes. When I write a letter I often find myself doing the same things. Not with 3x5's, but I do jot down notes and write an outline. As I compose, if something else comes to mind I annotate it in the margin so I can remember to add it later on below or in the next draft - I'm always afraid I'll forget it otherwise. Most of my personal letters go through several drafts. Is that sick? I've been told by some when they learn this that it lacks a certain spontaneity and sincerity. My bosses just ask me to abstract my emails if they run too long, which it looks like this here might have already done... <8P
But ya, 3x5 cards and outlines, they're old-school, but they're still a great working technique. And they don't require batteries.
The Black Knight Always Triumphs!!
-mwirkk :)
|
|
|
SirDennisC
Gondolin
Nov 17 2008, 5:09am
Post #25 of 38
(3478 views)
Shortcut
|
Hey mwirkk, where you been hiding? Good to see you posting again (I missed your thoughtful posts).
|
|
|
|
|
- I had my little index cards in order (following your lead) and had illustrated the 'beats' of the script instead of just going from a-z. A neat little package of 24 cards to start. The minor beats (the fills) I wrote and doodled. 
- talk about the age of technology! 
1
